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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:40 pm 
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I wrote to the folks at Sing King karaoke the other day to complement them on the quality of their product and ask if they planned on ever producing a third Gordon Lightfoot disc. I received this reply which I've been given permission to share here...

>> Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 9:37 AM

>> Hi Jerry
>> It is likely we will not be producing any more karaoke
>> discs due to excessive piracy of our products. It is not feasible to
>> produce discs for us any more.
>> I appreciate your opinion.
>>
>> best regards
>>
>> Don
>> Karaoke Closet
>> Sing King Karaoke


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:30 pm 
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Sing King is part of Karaoke Closet which is one of the main distributors in Canada and are not going out of business anytime soon (I hope). Sing King was their attempt (along with Karaokemaker and Gamesman) to bring Canadian music to karaoke. The other problem was also the increase in licencing fees. Karaokemaker quickly ran out of its Trooper and either Tragically Hip or Blue Rodeo discs. They wanted to press more but the fee I believe Neil said increased over threefold, prohibiting further production.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:41 pm 
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Thanks for the information Tim. I only have a few Canadian discs in my collection and wasn't even aware that Karaoke Closet was a separate entity. Still that email saddened me greatly... Let me know if you ever find a Gordon Lightfoot disc with "Softly" on it.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:13 pm 
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And here is the fourth piracy thread on the main board again, sigh.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:49 pm 
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I have to say I take great exception to the last post complaining about "another piracy thread". SingKing is a small production company filling a niche that I am very happy they did. All of the Canadian manufacturers of karaoke media have all been driven out of business by pressure from the licensing agencies and particularly the azzholes and jerks that seem to think it is their god given right to STEAL (yes I mean STEAL!) from companies that pay for the license fees, production costs and manufacturing of karaoke media.

As far as I am concerned I would not care if there were hundreds of threads on this site about piracy and paying to legally use music for shows. I have no argument with anyone who media shifts as long as they have media to match the songs they use on a computer for doing shows.

I think the people who defend these priqs are just as amoral as the pirates themselves. I am really tired of the situational ethics that people use to justify outright theft. Big bad music companies, greedy karaoke manufactures and ooh big bad government stepping on my rights or ability to make money by cheating and larceny. Even the largest manufacturers are shrinking like Sound Choice, Chartbusters etc all have cut their production, catalogues and staff.

Ya' know what happens when you catch the last fish - we all starve! The artists, producers, manufacturers, resellers and the KJs need to be able to make money. If all the current manufacturers are driven out of business, all we will have left will be Madacy (dear God NO! - I think they should be named mendacity).

I personally have decided to make a stand. I may not be able to change the world but I can in my own corner of the world. I have stopped going to shows that have riggers as hosts and I will tell the management in no uncertain terms that they will not have my trade. My friends and I are all people that spend money at shows, not like the pop and water drinkers I hope these bars get. I have even gone so far as to contact Sound Choice to offer to help document shows using unlicensed media.

Sorry for beating my chest but this whole topic frosts my (@$%&#!). I own over 350 disks and 55 LD. I am not a KJ but an enthusiast, if I pay for my music legitimately why not the hosts? I would love to the counter point to this if anyone is brave or stupid enough. Just out of interest, I also don't download unlicensed music or movies. I pay for what I use so there will be something tomorrow to listen to or watch.

That is my rant for the month...

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:01 am 
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I don't normally tilt at windmills but this is topic I feel very strongly about. I also want to say I am not calling anyone names, my arguement was the comment.

As an aside the SingKing disks are exceptional. They were planning a third Gordon Lightfoot disk but never got it into production. I am not familiar with the songs they planned for that release. If you have a chance you should collect as many of their disks as you can. Each is very well done.

Much calmer now...regards

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:22 am 
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Terryoke @ Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:49 am wrote:
I have to say I take great exception to the last post complaining about "another piracy thread". SingKing is a small production company filling a niche that I am very happy they did. All of the Canadian manufacturers of karaoke media have all been driven out of business by pressure from the licensing agencies and particularly the azzholes and jerks that seem to think it is their god given right to STEAL (yes I mean STEAL!) from companies that pay for the license fees, production costs and manufacturing of karaoke media.

As far as I am concerned I would not care if there were hundreds of threads on this site about piracy and paying to legally use music for shows. I have no argument with anyone who media shifts as long as they have media to match the songs they use on a computer for doing shows.

I think the people who defend these priqs are just as amoral as the pirates themselves. I am really tired of the situational ethics that people use to justify outright theft. Big bad music companies, greedy karaoke manufactures and ooh big bad government stepping on my rights or ability to make money by cheating and larceny. Even the largest manufacturers are shrinking like Sound Choice, Chartbusters etc all have cut their production, catalogues and staff.

Ya' know what happens when you catch the last fish - we all starve! The artists, producers, manufacturers, resellers and the KJs need to be able to make money. If all the current manufacturers are driven out of business, all we will have left will be Madacy (dear God NO! - I think they should be named mendacity).

I personally have decided to make a stand. I may not be able to change the world but I can in my own corner of the world. I have stopped going to shows that have riggers as hosts and I will tell the management in no uncertain terms that they will not have my trade. My friends and I are all people that spend money at shows, not like the pop and water drinkers I hope these bars get. I have even gone so far as to contact Sound Choice to offer to help document shows using unlicensed media.

Sorry for beating my chest but this whole topic frosts my <span style=font-size:10px><i>(@$%&#!)</i></span>. I own over 350 disks and 55 LD. I am not a KJ but an enthusiast, if I pay for my music legitimately why not the hosts? I would love to the counter point to this if anyone is brave or stupid enough. Just out of interest, I also don't download unlicensed music or movies. I pay for what I use so there will be something tomorrow to listen to or watch.

That is my rant for the month...


Very Well Said! Thanky you for you support, we need more like you, any volunteers?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 6:11 am 
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rumbolt @ Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:22 am wrote:
Terryoke @ Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:49 am wrote:
I have to say I take great exception to the last post complaining about "another piracy thread". SingKing is a small production company filling a niche that I am very happy they did. All of the Canadian manufacturers of karaoke media have all been driven out of business by pressure from the licensing agencies and particularly the azzholes and jerks that seem to think it is their god given right to STEAL (yes I mean STEAL!) from companies that pay for the license fees, production costs and manufacturing of karaoke media.

As far as I am concerned I would not care if there were hundreds of threads on this site about piracy and paying to legally use music for shows. I have no argument with anyone who media shifts as long as they have media to match the songs they use on a computer for doing shows.

I think the people who defend these priqs are just as amoral as the pirates themselves. I am really tired of the situational ethics that people use to justify outright theft. Big bad music companies, greedy karaoke manufactures and ooh big bad government stepping on my rights or ability to make money by cheating and larceny. Even the largest manufacturers are shrinking like Sound Choice, Chartbusters etc all have cut their production, catalogues and staff.

Ya' know what happens when you catch the last fish - we all starve! The artists, producers, manufacturers, resellers and the KJs need to be able to make money. If all the current manufacturers are driven out of business, all we will have left will be Madacy (dear God NO! - I think they should be named mendacity).

I personally have decided to make a stand. I may not be able to change the world but I can in my own corner of the world. I have stopped going to shows that have riggers as hosts and I will tell the management in no uncertain terms that they will not have my trade. My friends and I are all people that spend money at shows, not like the pop and water drinkers I hope these bars get. I have even gone so far as to contact Sound Choice to offer to help document shows using unlicensed media.

Sorry for beating my chest but this whole topic frosts my <span style=font-size:10px><i>(@$%&#!)</i></span>. I own over 350 disks and 55 LD. I am not a KJ but an enthusiast, if I pay for my music legitimately why not the hosts? I would love to the counter point to this if anyone is brave or stupid enough. Just out of interest, I also don't download unlicensed music or movies. I pay for what I use so there will be something tomorrow to listen to or watch.

That is my rant for the month...


Very Well Said! Thanky you for you support, we need more like you, any volunteers?


I agree, very well said :wink:


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 7:55 am 
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I agree with the sentiment, but not the forum. When we start a "piracy discussion board", then I say knock yourself out. But constant piracy discussions have killed other boards, and I would prefer not to see it happen here.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 7:58 am 
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Thank you Terryoke.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 10:04 am 
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Unfortunately, piracy in this industry is a reality and a is big part of the karaoke business, and whether you like it or not, it needs to be discussed. To not discuss it would be fooling ourselves and denying reality.
Once again, if you don't like a thread, why reply to it and thereby bump it to the top, assuring it gets more attention, instead of letting it die? Why read it at all (or continue to read it when you realize what it is)?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 10:37 am 
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Thank you for all the complements I appreciate the support. I have decided that I will take a copy of either the KIAA letter or a press release from a company like Sound Choice and leave it with a waiteress or owner to explain my boycott in simple terms. :!:

'You will lose my trade and anyone else I can influence not to come to your bar while a rigger is providing the entertainment." To the waiteress "You will not make any tips from me for the same reasons and I am a really generous person to my wait staff. I know it is not your fault but everyone pays a little price for this bull sh*t" If you don't kick them in the wallet - nothing will change. In Calgary I have many friends that I know will support my efforts. :wink:

I suggest the same action in your local market. Help the honest KJs trhive while grinding these bastards into the dust. :twisted: :angel: :twisted:

Hell hath no fury as a Terryoke scorned! :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

I am normally not this militant but this topic has got my dander up. Who wants to join me (Don Quiotoke) tilling at these windmills? :withstupid:

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 10:48 am 
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diafel @ Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:04 pm wrote:

Once again, if you don't like a thread, why reply to it and thereby bump it to the top, assuring it gets more attention, instead of letting it die? Why read it at all (or continue to read it when you realize what it is)?

Once again, if the discussion in the "Karaoke Discussion Forum" is dominated by piracy, it will crowd out other discussions. Not everyone reads and accesses the information the same way you do, you know. "Bumping to the top" has nothing to do with the way I see things. I only see new posts. And when there are 61 new posts and 55 are about piracy, it is kind of ridiculous.

These are supposed to be going on the KJs only forum. But maybe non-KJs want to discuss it too. Perhaps we need a new board:

Legal and Piracy Issues Forum

Then you'll know what you are getting when you subscribe to it.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:05 pm 
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MickyJ, I am appealing to you to just skip the topics you don't like and don't deprive those who do find those threads useful. I actually saved our night because of info I got from a buccaneer thread on this forum. Our bar owner got THE letter and was going to shut down karaoke altogether ran than deal with threats. I was able to explain that this was just a generic letter and what was going on and only Mr. 100,000 songs got the boot.

Singers need to know about this issue also as evidenced by Terryoke who is now aware of the severity of the problem and plans to vote with his feet. This isn't the bad old days where it was all talk and nothing was done. Right now something IS being done not just with the suits but with how we will buy our music in the future. All of this is information that people who want to keep up with the industry need to know.

I don't think talking about these issues will kill this forum as much as HOW people talk about these issues--as in rudeness, accusations, etc. If we stay civil we might get to be in on the future plans for the industry rather than chase the manus away to other forums.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:36 pm 
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Terryoke @ Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:37 pm wrote:
Thank you for all the complements I appreciate the support. I have decided that I will take a copy of either the KIAA letter or a press release from a company like Sound Choice and leave it with a waiteress or owner to explain my boycott in simple terms. :!:

'You will lose my trade and anyone else I can influence not to come to your bar while a rigger is providing the entertainment." To the waiteress "You will not make any tips from me for the same reasons and I am a really generous person to my wait staff. I know it is not your fault but everyone pays a little price for this bull sh*t" If you don't kick them in the wallet - nothing will change. In Calgary I have many friends that I know will support my efforts. :wink:

I suggest the same action in your local market. Help the honest KJs trhive while grinding these bastards into the dust. :twisted: :angel: :twisted:

Hell hath no fury as a Terryoke scorned! :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

I am normally not this militant but this topic has got my dander up. Who wants to join me (Don Quiotoke) tilling at these windmills? :withstupid:


Awesome!

It is KJs like you that are going to help get rid of pirates....

If we kill off piracy, then micky won't have to see anymore piracy threads...

I wonder what micky is doing in his area to help bury the karaoke pirate? HUH?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:52 pm 
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Mckyj, the question was asked why this Canadian manufacturer (and others) wasn't putting out more discs. My reply were the reasons why. It's the reality. It's why SC is doing what they are doing. Somewhere down the line "the freebies" have to stop so these companies can afford to put out more music.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 10:13 pm 
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leopard lizard @ Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:05 pm wrote:
MickyJ, I am appealing to you to just skip the topics you don't like and don't deprive those who do find those threads useful.

And you wouldn't find them useful on their own forum? If it is coming to dominate the karaoke discussion forum, that is where they belong. In fact, I thought we were supposed to be discussing this stuff in the KJ forum.

Since this is a KJ issue, mostly, I believe it belongs there and not in the main forum. Let that be for general discussion. It is not that if it is all legal issues.

The Lounge was created to solve its problem, let another forum be created to solve it. Or open up the KJs only forum and let it get some traffic.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 10:40 pm 
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mckyj57 @ Sun Nov 22, 2009 1:13 am wrote:
leopard lizard @ Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:05 pm wrote:
MickyJ, I am appealing to you to just skip the topics you don't like and don't deprive those who do find those threads useful.

And you wouldn't find them useful on their own forum? If it is coming to dominate the karaoke discussion forum, that is where they belong. In fact, I thought we were supposed to be discussing this stuff in the KJ forum.

Since this is a KJ issue, mostly, I believe it belongs there and not in the main forum. Let that be for general discussion. It is not that if it is all legal issues.

The Lounge was created to solve its problem, let another forum be created to solve it. Or open up the KJs only forum and let it get some traffic.

I absolutely roger it's a problem. I would love to see all pirate shows stop. My $8,000 worth of karaoke disks goes way up in value then.

But everyone has problems. The JOLT forum's problem was having only piracy bickering, and it died. I don't want to have that in this forum.

It is an important topic, and it deserves it's own place where people who want to discuss it can. But it isn't so important that like kudzu it should push out other things. Which is what happens when you 1) bring piracy into every topic with a one track mind, as some are wont to do, or 2) have 50% of posts be on that topic.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:50 am 
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mckyj57 @ Sun Nov 22, 2009 1:40 am wrote:

Since this is a KJ issue, mostly, I believe it belongs there and not in the main forum. Let that be for general discussion. It is not that if it is all legal issues.



But that's where you're wrong. The OP stated that another Manu. is going out of business. This is a KJ's issue and a Singer's issue (those that are hobbyists, who like to purchase their own discs).


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:13 am 
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cueball @ Sun Nov 22, 2009 6:50 am wrote:
mckyj57 @ Sun Nov 22, 2009 1:40 am wrote:

Since this is a KJ issue, mostly, I believe it belongs there and not in the main forum. Let that be for general discussion. It is not that if it is all legal issues.



But that's where you're wrong. The OP stated that another Manu. is going out of business. This is a KJ's issue and a Singer's issue (those that are hobbyists, who like to purchase their own discs).

I said mostly, not entirely.

Again, legality and piracy is an important topic. Let it have it's own forum.

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