Karaoke Forums

This is my set-up: Allen Heath ZED-12FX usb to and from my laptop, akg sr-40 mics, laptop for my Karaoke, and 2 15 in powered Yamaha...

I used to run a Mackie 12 wth effects, and 2 powered 12s peavys.....

I just cant get the sound I want, dont know if its because of the eq built in the mackie

cant get enough bass in the mics" used the same mics with me mackie system"

could a maximizer help external eq, or a compressor...i just dont know

any info or Ideas will the helpful
thanks

Set the gain properly, enable PFL switch, mains and faders on zero, dial gain until led sets on oarnge. Make sure to disengage the high pass filter. Use the sweepable mids to contour and add punch on the vocal ranges. Lastly, sometime less is more when dealing with eq

Edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tornRFVtGxI

OK a couple things, first, I absolutely hate the method shown in that video for setting gain structure. Why on earth would you zero out your faders, dial in the input attenuation and then use the input sensitivity of your amplifier to set the room volume. I've known other guys who've done similar methods (never seen anyone use the amp's input sensitivity as the control though) and I can never figure these cats out. Why the hell do you think there are those long faders there. If all you were meant to do was either have them at 0db or all the way down at Infinity, it would just be a switch. Regardless, I don't know that the issue here is one of gain structure.

To the OP, you've stated that you can't get enough Low End in your mics? That seems very odd to me, with most dynamic mics you usually find yourself trying to cut the low end because proximity effect causes a huge gain around the 250Hz area. My guess is you've probably actually got a whole lot of mid-range that needs to be cut. I'm betting what you're earing is a real piercing mid-high section and that it's making it sound like you have no low end. Here's what you can try:

In the HM section of the channel EQ for that vocal channel, turn the frequency knob to about midway between the 2k and 3k marks (you're looking for about 2.6k). Then take the attenuation knob just below that and turn it to the left (Counter clockwise) to about the first mark after top center or maybe a little further to the left. See how that sounds. You can try adjusting the attenuation knob further down or a little closer to center to get the sound you want. Too far to the left, things will get muddy and lack clarity. Too far to the right and it will get that ice-pick in the eye harshness. You're looking for a good warm tone that will still have clarity enough to separate the vocals from the rest of the mix so that words and phrases can be understood. As far as the LF and HF on that EQ, I'd recommend the HF just a little right of center and the LF about two marks left of the center mark (based on what you've described).

Try it out, let us know.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

I've been in the sound business for a good 14 yrs now. I have been to school for it and as far as I've known, never did the science of gain structure setting changed. Alot of people mistake gain as something to make you system sound louder or think that it's a volume control. If you want an efficient setting do the conventional. If there's other ways to efficiently set gains out... I would certainly love to know.

The guy in that video is an idiot.

First of all, he is telling you to set the gain pot on each channel to just below clip and then set the channel faders at -0 or higher. Between that and any boost you may later apply using the channel strip EQ, you can easily work yourself into a corner where you are clipping the channel or worse, the mix buses, during the performance. The guy uses a Yamaha MG-series mixer in his demonstration video. I can tell you from experience with those mixers, that they do not have a generous amount of headroom on the mix buses.

Then he wants you to continue being stupid by giving yourself no room to increase the PA volume or add boost to the house EQ, by running the system with the hottest possible signal coming out of the mixer. Any increase in signal towards those speakers will cause their inputs to clip, which will cause distortion whether or not the speakers are playing loud or quietly.

I don't doubt that you understand good gain structure. I think you might have missed what the guy was saying in the video, which is just plain wrong.

Besides the above stupidity, he actually directs people to have no more than 10dB of variation between sources once they are in the PA mix. As letitrip mentioned about the reason for having a master fader, why would the channel strips have more than 10dB of range if you are not going to use them?

I think the OP just needs to get used to his new mixer and maybe apply some outboard EQ.

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

I'm happy for you, 14 years is a good run. As an audio engineer myself, I'm keenly aware of the basics of gain structure and its fundamental and foundational role in audio production. I still take issue with the methods used here. As Jeff pointed out in great detail, if you have all your faders at 0 db or higher, your input attenuation set the way that we all would (peaks just below clip) you have no head room on that console at all. If your peaks are just below clip (i.e. somewhere right around 0 db) and you put your channel fader above zero as suggested in the video and then run your master fader at zero you're already damn close if not into clip on the output (on a digital board, anything over 0 is clipped so you'd be there). Plus what happens when you realize you need a little more volume in the house? Now you gotta run back to the amplifiers and turn up their input sensitivity?

If you've been to school for audio engineering, then you tell me, how many concert rigs with racks of amplifiers per side have you seen run where the house levels are set by the input sensitivity controls on those amplifiers. The master fader is for controlling house level, the channel faders are for controlling the mix. Yard-sticking them all at zero and thinking that's gonna generate a good mix is simply idiotic.

I gotta believe that Jeff is right, that you maybe misunderstood what part of the video I take issue with. His description of setting the input attenuation on each channel is I think something we all agree with. It's the rest of the structure in the signal path that is just out of whack.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

wow guys...such alot of info...thank you so much
I will say this..this mixer is prob the cleanest sounding board I have ever heard
I will try it at my show tonite..and let you know how it goes

WOW set it up tonight ...worked like a charm...settin the mic like you said,,worked great,,i had it set opposite..trying to tweek it out with the master onboard eq....thanks guys for your help!!!

Rock 'n' Roll!!! Glad to hear you got it worked out. Don't be shy about posting follow-up questions as you find other things that don't seem right to you. Lots of good folks here to help you out.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke