Karaoke Forums

Back in September, I picked up a thursday gig. Let me give you the full details that I can possible describe. First thing, the place is a terrific building, good acoustics, beautiful atmosphere, excellent service. The pricing ranges from the cheap 2 dollar beer to really good imported ales at about 8 bucks a pop. They do serve mixed drinks too. The location isn't great at all. It's sort of out of the way, and you have to know where it is before you can find it (a little hard to find). It's in a larger town that has about 20 thousand people, plus another 20 thousand or so in surrounding areas. Close in proximity to a larger city only about 13 miles away. The town only has one other bar in it, and there is only one other bar besides that one in the area before you find others in the city. The entire area is predominately LDS (Mormon, and non-drinkers, about 70% or more). Yes, if you also want to know, I am in Utah.

The new owners have had the place since about June is all. It's a couple and a partner, all of which are really nice people. Good, honest people who didn't want the business to just close, because it's such a very nice place. Now they didn't really have the funds to buy the place, so they borrowed pretty much everything, leaving nothing for a "budget" for advertising. That is what I see as the problem. We have tried to do the "free" method of advertising, Facebook, emails,web page, texting, etc. They have put a small ad in the local paper, telling of all the weekly events.

They book bands for Fridays and Saturdays, and get terrific response from the bands "followings". The bands play for the "door charge" (usually 5 bucks a person).
I have given them the absolute best possible solution to help them cut expenses ( I also work for the door, 3 dollar per person). Since we started back in September, it hasn't taken off at all. We have had a few weeks of it showing promise, but it hasn't ever blossomed. I realize that giving them this payment option has hurt me tremendously, but I really wanted this venue to work. My belief is that if the bar doesn't succeed, then I don't succeed, this has always been my way. I like the place a lot, and the people too.

OK, now for my stuff. I think my sound is terrific, I get compliments on it all the time, have really good selection, and host as fair a show as I can possibly do. Never do I play favorites and always strive to make everyone feel special. I run an upbeat, happy and fun show. I use only good mics, 3 Sennheiser 835's and one wireless Shure SM58. I also have a good reputation in a wide area of Utah for being the best host around. That one is a matter of opinion though, isn't it?

So in my humble opinion, the reason the place isn't "hopping" on Thursdays, is the "word" of me being there isn't getting out. Now you know the entire story, as I see it, and need any input from you guys. I have never built a show from scratch, and from my stand point, I'm failing miserably at doing one now. I don't know what more I can do, without going into the hole financially by advertising it myself. And I just am not capable of doing that. I really want this show to succeed. Any suggestions?

Scott

How many people live within a 5 mile radius of the bar? The studies I've seen on the bar business say 80% of the customers are going to come from that area. (Makes a lot of sense when you think about how the cops like to cruise for drunk drivers right about closing time.)

Any money you spend on advertising past that 5 mile radius is pretty much a waste.
If you don't have a pretty good size residential population in that 5 mile radius it's going to be tough. If there are a lot of businesses you might be able to run a very early happy hour show that would get people before they went home from work.

Few questions: Do they serve food? Is it real food or bar food? If they serve real food, try running your show earlier and attract a dinner crowd that will hang out after their meal and sing. My most successful show is one that begins at 7 p.m. and runs until 11. Try karaoke night specials -- not drinks necessarily but two-fers for food. I hate to even say this but try a contest - charge people to enter and make the prize part of that money. Run it nightly or weekly or six weeks of qualifying then the big final night. (I don't like contests, I don't believe they really do what they should do, and that is inspire people to make the place their 'place to go.') Try a jam night - is your equipment adequate for plugging instruments in? Jam nights bring musicians and their friends. You could host the jam -- blues, rock, jazz, etc. Are there publications in the area that advertise jams? Or a free listing somewhere? Craigslist musician page is very active in the Seattle area...people are always asking about jams and there are always affirmative responses. Combine this with karaoke (i'm about to embark on this kind of a project later this month) maybe?

Those are methods I would try - they have worked for me in the past but every place is different for sure.

I understand your commitment to making the place go - not the best business decisions, though, not allowing an adequate budget for promotion. Solid gold cadillac on the top of mt. everest situation.

Jerry, the bar is in a business district, right next to a small airport. But the entire population is less than 5 miles wide, excluding other surrounding towns. The business district is actually not very active either, so I have that to contend with. Like I said, the location is not great, actually is the only bad thing I can say about the place.

Get with the beer rep or liquor rep and see if they'll make you a banner (with their logo, of course) that says "karaoke tonight", etc to hang outside on the building. They should do it for free. Also ask for anything free from them. Hats, t-shirts, coasters, pens, etc. to give away at your shows. Promise to promote them during show.

A contest could work to your advantage if you market it correctly. I would gear towards family and DEFINITELY have a child category. Parents love to see their kids compete. Live stream from the venue has worked wonders for me and is pretty inexpensive to set up.

Basically, think outside the box. New venues are very tough to get off the ground. A major chain bar and grill I work at offers free drinks to ladies for about a 2 hour period and also let the guys drink free draft beer for 30 minutes. It has increased their overall profit 50%. 2 for 1 appetizers is a great idea mentioned earlier.

Good luck!

The banner idea has already been talked about, I think they are working on that one. The sad problem with that is, not many people just drive by this place, its in that bad of a location. I worked 22 years in retail, and the three most important things they always said to be successful in retail is "location, location, location".

We also have discussed the competition idea as well. Now, while I hate karaoke contests, this is one the has the best potential of getting the word out. So, this is a valid idea.

Children are not allowed at all. Nobody under 21 is strictly not allowed even on the premises. However, they do have the use of the adjoining lot directly behind them. Big area that is fully finished in concrete. And the owners built a Tiki Hut stage directly on the spot between the two areas. This past mid-September they held a "fight-night" out on the back lot that was a huge success. They actually own the back lot, but it's not part of the bar. That is how they set their insurance up as, so they can do the "all ages welcome" events. But still, the kids aren't allowed on bar premises. Besides that, there is about a 1 1/2 feet of snow out there. Summer events only are possible. But still, a good idea for summer time. Don't have that long to wait

Believe it or not, I bet the $3.00 cover is your Achilles Heel. Around my part of the world very few people would be willing to pay cover for karaoke but would for a band. It is most likely a mindset because really $3,00 is not much.

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I really don't think so, I have heard only one person complain, and this guy wants everyone else to buy him his drinks, he is just a tight wad. Other than that nobody has even balked at all. I think in our area, cover charges are the "norm". I could be wrong tho, that's why I am here asking for everyone's opinions. Thanks

IMHO:

The problem is more a "location problem" than anything else.

For patrons, this establishment must be a "destination" and not something you would normally "pass by" on your way to anything else. I had the same problem with one establishment, good food, nice faciities and very clean, yadda, yadda.... but it too had to be "a destination" and not on the way to anything else....

It's a tough road to hoe when you have this problem because everything else seems "perfect." If you could just teleport this establishment just a couple of milles over, it'd probably be jam-packed every night. But the "industrial park" isn't helping matters since everyone that works there leaves after work.

Well, since it's in an industrial area, I think that's the crowd I would shoot for. If this place is open during the daytime, run lunch specials, maybe even deliver to the industrial park only. Then for AFTER work, run a happy hour from maybe 4 - 7, and start karaoke at 7, or maybe even 6. Get the money from the daytime business to pay for the nighttime business. Once the people that work in the area get used to stopping in to have "just one", they might make it THEIR spot. I'm not too sure about the "cover charge", but I do know "happy hours" work. Maybe even make Thursday "ladies night" from 7-9 ladies drink 2 for 1. If you keep the ladies, "the men will come". They may not make a gigantic profit at first, but at least the people will spread the word about "this place that's in the industrial park where I work is REALLY a pretty nice place to hang out". Once the word gets out, the money will come in. They have to build a REPUTATION first. Just my thoughts.

Rosario

I would go to the business parks and store fronts. Hand out fliers to the offices or ask to put them in windows. You need to get the word out.

I'm also a bit concerned about a door charge, but you know the venue.

Something else that popped in my mind was maybe have the bar pay you $50 a night and than charge a $1 a song instead of a cover charge.

I don't know what kind of money you're making from the door, but it doesn't sound like enough. Do the bands work for cover only?

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Babs, for the most part the bands DO make a good amount on the door charge. It might be as little as a couple hundred to over a thousand on really good nights. I popped in last night on the way home from my other show which ended early, and it was slow. But still the band probably made at least 200 last night. Not great, but tonight I would think it will be busy to make up for it. Door charges in our area are normal, so only the occasional person who thinks that karaoke isn't entertainment will squawk a bit. You are right, the door doesn't even pay for my gas, let alone make a profit. I said this before, I think the owners are trying to make decisions that give them the least amount of risk.

Now as far as starting earlier, that is not an option for me. I live about an hour away from this venue, and work until 5, and still have to go home and get cleaned up after getting home at about 5:30.

This is an idea I have toyed with but never actually tried...

Run a Happy Hour show. Target the businesses by stopping by with fliers for their break rooms.

Offer a pitcher and a pizza or other suitable prize to the business that has the most employees show up each week. In addition, all who attend will be asked to bring a business card to be stuck in the hat. At the end of the year you will draw to award a free holiday party to the lucky business who wins.

The odds are that one of the businesses with the most people who come out are probably going to win, but anyone could win. If you do a great job with the show you could conceivably book a few more holiday parties by virtue of being exposed to so many employees.

You've only heard one person complain, but how many people never made it inside the bar because they refused to pay a cover? If it's the norm for your area, perhaps the bar may want to use "NO COVER CHARGE" as a marketing angle?

I think there's a big difference between paying a cover to watch a band perform and paying a cover for karaoke night. I think a lot of people don't see karaoke as being entertained, per say, but more as something you do while you're at the bar, such as playing pool or darts or videogames.

Sorry to say this BUT...
It does not matter how good your show is.
People will not travel to an empty bar.
If these bands did not have their own following...
They might get the door money you do.
You love the place. You have also taken it as a challenge.
Possibly the wrong challenge. ?
Free beer for a month or two may work.
How badly do you want it to work...
Don't think the owners can afford it.

I would have to agree with timberlea. I think the cover charge may be the big issue. For bands, it's normal, and people expect that. For karaoke? Not so much. Even though the people that are coming aren't complaining, they aren't the ones to worry about. It's the ones that AREN"T coming. Many people just won't pay a cover charge for karaoke out of principle. They may be finding out about the cover charge, and just deciding not to go.

You've only heard 1 person complain about the $3 cover because all the "MISSING" singers are not showing up ? That's the original problem isn't it ? You can't build a karaoke show at a venue that charges a COVER. Word of mouth is powerful marketing tool..both POSITIVE and more importantly NEGATIVE. People won't pay $3 to walk in to sing when other places are FREE. SIMPLE

The solution is simple ---advertise NO COVER KARAOKE and promote your show so people know. Have the bar raises prices $0.25 to $0.50 to make up the difference.

See if you can host KARAOKE during the bands breaks one weekend to promote your show ????

Try eliminating the cover. And see if they'll give you six months to try a show w/o the cover. It can take a year to establish a new show. The reality is that few bars and karaoke outfits have the luxury of the time required to make that happen.