Karaoke Forums

Some of you aren't getting the point. The door charge is how I am getting paid at the moment. No door charge=no me. Period. Now later on, when the people count goes up, then the door charge might disappear, dunno on that one. Until we get about 50 or so people who are buying stuff, then the door charge will probably be the norm. Read the earlier comments on the bar trying to take as few risks as possible, they don't have much of a budget to work with.

Raising prices during karaoke isn't a good idea either. Let's say that 50 people are attending buying drinks. They raise the price 25cents, and each person buys 4 drinks. That is only generating at extra 50 bucks. Not what we are shooting for is it?

I believe it's all in getting the word out in advertising, or a contest, or something that I am not thinking of. But that's why I am here asking for advice. Thanks again.

Scott

Mr. Scott --you received advice--you just don't like it ... Cover Charge plus Karaoke = POOR TURN OUT

You can advertise during the Superbowl ..once you say $3 cover ..your show is done.
UNLESS YOU CAN OFFER SOMETHING FOR THE COVER CHARGE.

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It seems your ownership does not want to take any risks... poor way to run a business

Jam,,,I honestly appreciate all the advice. All I am saying is I don't believe the cover is the problem. Because all but one of my shows have cover charges, and they all do well in spite of the cover charge. In our little neck of the country, cover charges are quite normal and accepted. I agree it would be better if they weren't necessary. But it's just another way of generating a way to pay for entertainment. I would like to think outside the box and try to come up with other ways of attracting customers. In all honesty, I think the location and lack of advertising is the problem in my case.

If that's the case then you have to ask ..What will make people come to my show at this venue? If all the karaoke bars in that area charge a cover then I guess it would NOT be a negative factor. Your show is top rate and the venue is clean with decent food. You need a gimmick ? Are there pool tables or other entertainment options?
If so maybe offer FREE POOL night ? Maybe change the show to KARAOKE/DANCE or since bands do well maybe Karaoke/Open Mic Night ( again just thinking out loud)

I'll still say this ..if COVER CHARGES are the norm ...then NOT charging one would be a way to INCREASE BUSINESS. It's a reason for people Singers and NON singers to see your show?

Whichever way you choose advertisment would be suggested as cover charges are not a problem. Maybe offer 2 for the price of one ? If the owners don't want to take any risks maybe you'll have to ?

That's just it Jam, I have been taking all the risks so far. I have eaten in the wallet since I started the show. Can't do much more without it actually taking money OUT of my wallet. So far, all I can say is that I haven't MADE money yet, not lost it. But, I am not capable of going in the hole for someone else's profits.

Yes, I really like the place, and I feel the potential is there, but the owners have to step up as well and take some of the responsibility of advertising costs. So far all they have done is add to the weekly advertisement that there is karaoke on thursdays, and put me on there web page. The freebie stuff like Facebook and MySpace have also been used by both of us. Texting my friends and "people" has also been done. So far, I average only about 20 people per night, and we NEED to increase that to well over 50 on average.

As you know Utah is NOT a big drinking state, so we fight that as well. And there aren't that many bars per capita either. In fact there are only two other bars in a short distance from this one that actually does karaoke. One to the north and one to the south. If you go any further to the north or south, then you hit other bars that I am the one hosting karaoke at these venues.

Some of the ideas you all have given me are pretty good ones, and I will propose some of them to the owners when I see them again. Still I believe that location is the biggest problem, and that is something I have no control over.

Thanks again all...Scott

Twenty people on a Thursday in a small town isn't that horrible. What kind of crowd were they pulling BEFORE you started your show?

I would never work at a bar that didn't pay me, and expected me to make my own cash. If they have no budget to pay you, then you probably aren't going to make much money. That said, here's what I would do to maximize what you ARE making.

#1: Ask the bar owners what it would take, as far as nightly revenue, for them to pay you $75.00 for your karaoke show. If they can't give you an answer, then give them this simple math:

If they pay you $75.00 for the night, they can write off the weekly $75.00 at year end as a business expense (it is tax deductable). So in all likelyhood, the actual COST to them is closer to $55.00 if they are in a lower business tax bracket (maybe even less).

OK, so what does it take to bring in $55.00 more profit. Well, if you average 20 people a night right now, and the average person spends around $20-25, and 20% of that is profit, then you need to increase the average patronage by about 15 people for the bar owners to afford your $75.00 nightly rate AND keep their current profits.

So now, you need to increase the average patronage from 20 to 35.

#2: Get rid of the $3.00 cover. You may get 20 people that are willing to pay it, but if you can get 40 people with no cover, then you have alot more revenue streams to work with, and can justify your rate. I can MAYBE understand SINGERS paying to attend a karaoke show, but I guarantee that you would get many more NON-SINGERS if there were no cover. And NON-SINGERS are (hopefully) paying customers too!!

#3: Here's a trick I came up with at my OLD venue when the owner was being stingy. If the owner wants you to work from 8:00-Midnight, then advertise your karaoke show as 8:00-11:00. Once 11:00 rolls around, tell the singing patrons that you are only paid by the owners to go to 11:00, but you will go an extra hour if they can take up a $20-25 collection. Now, all of the sudden, you are making closer to $100-125, and the owner's overall investment is still around $55.00 a night.

That's about the best you can do. Again, if the owners won't pay you or SOMEHOW work with you to help you make $$$, then what you are doing is not called a JOB, it is called charity!!!

Good luck!!

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C Mc
KJ, FL

Scott since the cover charge issue is off the table because the owners won't pay for entertainment, let's get past that.

If a band can get 200 people in the door, 200 people have to know where the bar is to get there!

What about doing karaoke during the band's breaks? Most bands take 20-30-45 minute breaks a couple of times per night. Instead of putting on the jukebox or the band's iPod, you can hype your Thursday show.

Granted you'll have to do it for no money, but just for the promotional value.

You can also print some flyers to be given away Friday and Saturday nights.

Your challenge is to give the crowds a reason to come BACK to a place that's off the beaten path. Karaoke is everywhere. What does your show have that others don't? Find that unique selling proposition and print it on the flyers.

Good luck!

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[font=Lucida Console]DangerousKaraoke.com[/font]
[font=Lucida Console]"Sing for the day, sing for the moment, sing for the time of your life!"[/font]

If you were in retail, then you ought to know the value of soft dollars. For the rest, it means giving them a perceived value that doesn't cost you that much ie- the difference between retail and wholesale.

Get the bar to agree to a free drink ticket for each person that pays the cover charge. It won't cost them $1 per drink and will go a long way to help themselves get established. From what I see, they want the profits, but not of the risk. That's a Hell of a way to run a business! You are the only one taking risks. Shame on them and Shame on you!

If they don't want to be part of the solution, cut your losses. If you're hell-bent on making it happen, then you need to come up with a long term plan that adequately compensates you for losses you take on the front end. (Make it a joint venture)

I've never seen a bar in an industrial district that wasn't busy before and after work (during too if it's a union shop). Things may be different in Utah, but I would bet there is something that keeps people from stopping by. Not serving food is only one of those reasons.

You need to do some investigation. Who are the people that should be coming? Why are they not? Is the time of the show the issue? I think not or they would all be drinking at another time. They are not coming and someone needs to do more than market. The business might have had a bad reputation that has not been overcome by a change in management. Maybe it has something to do with the new manager(s). Even though you say they are nice, there may be something there.

It will be tough to overcome a bad rep. It will take a ton of sincerely by someone who cares. That's not necessarily you. They may have no problem with you, but need to hear from the managers that their concerns will be dealt with in a positive manner.

Do the current managers have any incite into what happened before they took over? If they know of any issues, then they need to hit them head-on. If they are not willing to make an effort, then you have your answer.

Good luck in whatever you decide!

Thanks for your input on this situation. For the last couple of months, I have let things stand just to see what might transpire out of it. As of this last thursday, things haven't improved at all. In fact it actually took a bad turn. They stopped charging at the door without letting us know. Instead they had the singers themselves put 3 bucks into the tip jar voluntarily. UUUhhh,,can you say,,,NOT GONNA HAPPEN? So this last thursday was the last day we are going to have karaoke at this place. They don't know it yet, but I just pulled the plug on this show. I am sorry to see it go, but if the owners aren't going to help, then I am not going to take any further risk to my wallet or reputation. I have given it my best effort, and failed. Lesson learned

I think you made the right decision.

Karaoke entertainment has to be a partnership with the venue. They have to be willing to spend money to advertise, have drink specials and generally make their VENUE attractive to new customers. You just can't hang out a "karaoke" sign and expect it to happen.

Perhaps when the bar has NO entertainment on Thursdays they'll get a rude awakening that they need to make an investment in entertainment if they want people to show up. Let us know what happens when the bar owners gets the news.

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[font=Lucida Console]DangerousKaraoke.com[/font]
[font=Lucida Console]"Sing for the day, sing for the moment, sing for the time of your life!"[/font]

Well, did it last night. I visited this bar and officially "pulled the plug". No more karaoke. We had a very good, "frank" discussion on how this have transpired over the last few months of trying to make things work. They think they did their part, but I showed them how they had NOT done what was needed to make it work. Anyway, we did end our conversation on a good note, leaving the door open for things in the future. I wasn't hostile at all, I just wanted to let them know that by the way they didn't do the right things, this is the outcome. Again, lesson learned.

Sounds like you handled it correctly. Don't need to burn any bridges.