Karaoke Forums

First off, let me say I've been doing shows for about 20 years, and I know not to put speakers behind the singer because of feedback problems, but I have a situation I'd like some feedback on. (Pun intended).

At 62, I'm getting a little tired of bringing speakers in and out every night, and the owner has alowed me to put in a perminant system. Problem is, the right wall is all concrete, and the left wall houses 7 LCD TVs. The only useable wall is behind me which is sheetrock on 2X4. I want to install the speakers on THAT wall, but I wonder how high I should go to eleminate feedback problems. Would 10-12 feet overhead be enough?

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My first choice IS Sound Choice.

Hang the speakers were they will allow the best sound acoustically...and you can always adjust and move the singers later

Will the speakers be angled down ?

A couple thoughts here. First, is there any possibility of flying (hanging) them from the ceiling? Some chain and the right hardware can make this happen pretty easily.

What kind of speakers are we talking about here? That would affect the possibility for how you can mount them as well as what height makes the most sense.

Assuming we're talking about a pair of 2-way cabinets (Horn+Woofer), if you mount them straight up vertically (like they'd be on stands), you want the bottom of the horn to be at the top of the head of the tallest person in the room (so figure some where around 6 feet or so for an install). If you have to install them any higher than that, then you're going to want to angle them downward to ensure that your high end sound from the horn makes it to the listening audience. The manufacturer should have specs detailing the dispersion angle of the horn which will give you some help in determining what angle to install them at.

I Hope that helps.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

Thanks guys.

For the past year I've had to consider weight of the speakers that I use, so don't laugh. I'm using 4 Peavey PR-12's. Two on each stand. (Each stand has a double speaker mount). With a perminant install, that would eliminate 8 things to have to drag in every night, not counting the cables.

The club is very high and open to the rafters. No ladders high enough to reach the upper rafters. I was thinking of mounting all four on a shelf about 10 feet high in an array. With the speakers any lower than that I'm sure I'd get feedback. I was wondering if 10 feet would be high enough to eliminate the problem. The way the club is set up, the only place to set them is above, and behind the singer. So again, would 8 to 10 feet be enough?

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My first choice IS Sound Choice.

I think your best bet is to try it and see if it actually works.

In addition to what Tony said speakers typically have a 90 degree horizontal dispersion angle. A singer can be close or even parallel to a speaker if they are out of he dispersion angle. With a wide stage the singer can be in front of one or both. Flying speakers increase the angle (8 feet).

Insome venues I put the speakers on the opposite wall. In that enue dontpoin hespeakers at the concrete or the mirroe wall. Depending upon the overall size you might consider more than 2 speakers and place to disperse the sound. As they don have to be drien as much this helps with the feedback issue also.

As the lastpost stated the sure way is by trial and error. Rember that the bass response and feedback acoustics will vary according to the size of the crowd although the eects decrease with flying speakers..

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I agree with the others that say all you can really do is try. At 10 feet (I'm assuming to the bottom of the shelf) I would give the speakers a bit of a downward angle. Keep them aimed high enough so that the waves coming out of the horns will just clear the head of the singer. This plus having a warm slab of carbon and water (i.e. a human body) between the mic and the speaker should help keep the high end out of it. Even so you'll likely be needing to EQ quite a bit of low end out of the mic channels to keep feedback in check. Ideally I'd say get a 31 band EQ for each mic but I doubt you have that now nor the money to get it. So instead, if your console has a sweepable mid-range, set the frequency to around 250Hz and start cutting there. That should help keep the low end in check.

As discussed in another thread, the better quality your microphones, the less chance there will be for feedback. Gain structure will be more important now than ever as well so if you don't know what I'm talking about, start reading up on the subject.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

Thanks guys.

I'm using two Shure wireless SM-58's for the singers and a Shure wireless headset for myself, and a Yamaha EMX-5014C mixer. The mic channels have sweepable mids. No problem with feedback so far since the speakers are mounted on stands on the left and right.

With all four speakers mounted above and behind, tilted slightly down, I'm hopeing the height will help keep the feedback monster away. I guess all I can do is try.

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My first choice IS Sound Choice.

I don't think your idea of a 4 speaker "array" of Peavey trap cabinets is going to work very well. The horns are not designed to be deployed that way. Flying the speakers is certainly a good idea but putting them all together, even with a good amount of splay, is likely to give bad results.

Be sure you use the engineered fly-points on the Peavey cabinets. Do not hang them by the handles. Doing so could result in injury or death down the road, and if that happens, the owner of the speakers (you), the person who installed them (whoever), and the club will all end up getting sued! An experienced rigger with liability insurance, who does commercial installations, should be engaged for flying speakers in a public venue.

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

Thanks Jeff.

What in particular do you see wrong with putting them all together in the middle in a splay arrangement as opposed to two on each side of the stage? (At this point though, I'm just thinking about two on each side, but still on a shelf about 10 feet high). I guess all I can do is try. All it'll cost me is a couple pieces of plywood and some braces.

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My first choice IS Sound Choice.

The PR-12 is marketed as a 90x40 degrees box. Are you going to splay them to cover a whole circle? If not I would adjust your plan, use fewer boxes, or get different boxes.

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

Plan adjusted. I've ordered a pair of speaker wall mounting brackets from Sam Ash. They'll hold 90 pounds each. More than enough to mount two speakers on each one. I've got someone who can mount the brackets for me. As advised, I'll have both sets tilted down slightly. With two speakers on each side in a smaller splay, it should work out fine.

Thanks to everyone for your help.

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My first choice IS Sound Choice.