Karaoke Forums

c. staley, if you're saying that ALL of those manu's are illigal, than I don't know a SINGLE kj that has a legal library. So, for ME, this conversation is over. I don't wish to get into ANOTHER pirate discussion, BECAUSE, I have neither the MEANS, NOR DESIRE to have to PROVE or DISPROVE whether ANYTHING I purchase from ANY store is LEGAL. As far as that goes, (using your train of thought), I can't PROVE any purchase of (ANYTHING) I've EVER bought is LEGAL, because I bought (IT) from a store, BUT I couldn't tell you WHERE they got it from!!!! In the USA, I didn't think that was OUR responsibility, but I guess in YOUR America, we're guilty until PROVEN innocent.

Rosario

I just saw an ad selling DK Millenium SCDG Vol. 1 & 2 for $160 bucks


Despite what you think the orginal set of DK is just "NOT "worth what IT SHOULD BE in todays "free enterprise" market

You just don't know anymore which discs or downloads sites are truly LEGAL or not ?? The laws are so muddy that nows the time to pick up the entire set for $160 : :

maybe to a collector ??? -- I mean I would NEVER pay $300+ for an original SC8125 !!!! Not for a BUSINESS ...maybe personally ..but I got by using the BACKSTAGE EAGLES for years until Zoom came out with a great disc.

It's all in the value one applies to anything.

IMHO There is no comparison between the two. The original 0-99 set on individual disk is a collector’s item for those who believe there is value in the set. Personally, if I were able to afford it, I would offer a premium for the set. There are selections on this set that didn't get onto the Millennium set; a couple of which I did pay premium for a few years ago because I prefer DK's arrangement over any other producers’. I was the value I assessed for what I wanted.

When it comes to the millennium set, there are selections on it I prefer as well; such as disc # 1102 "Rare Cut" (I think?)(a Neil Diamond collection). This isn't on the original 0-99. I have the millennium which I purchase for a very low price of $1200 nine years ago. I think they actually retailed between $1500-$1600; which was considerably less than the original 0-99.

Now this Millennium SCDG is quite the bargain. And If I could understand the small Kanji on the back of the package, I would be contacting the producers of this product and give them a piece of my mind. As I related on another post here I bought the SCDG set as a gift only to find the two discs had bad tracks which significantly disrupted the upload to a CAVS JB199. I exchanged them for another set which had the same bad tracks. And the retailer appears to be ignoring my correspondence.

A matter of legality is probably a concern of the Japanese companies. Did DK license the production of their Millennium set to another Japanese company in the SCDG Format? Maybe, but here in the states I don’t think it’s an issue.

So with all that said it is still matter of value. And while you will find more than DK on the SCDGs, I believe you will not find the complete collection of the millennium set either. Therefore it is adequately priced.

And as such, the original 0-99 series could bring premium a price from someone who feels it is worth it (and can afford it). And there lies the rub; affordability.

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EveningStar Entertainment & Events
JR & Michele LaPorte
Peoria, AZ

So, using your logic, as long as YOU bought it from a "store" your responsibility ends right there? So make up a receipt from a defunct "store" that you purchased a loaded hard drive and you should be all set right?

You see, in YOUR America, it's okay to buy stolen property as long as you play dumb and point to someone/something else.


You CAN prove what you've purchased is legal.... you just don't want to have to... I get it.

However, my point is that "your bargain" is illegal to start with. You can't buy these tracks from DK and DK doesn't "license" these tracks for SCDG use and never has nor do they even operate in the U.S. anymore. Have you ever wondered why DK stopped operating here? Their sales dropped because other (American) manufacturers beat them to market with unlicensed tracks and EVERY American manufacturer (except for Priddis) has produced, distributed and sold unlicensed tracks.

And, yes I agree with you that that "technically" there are almost NO "legal KJ's" because of the manufacturers willingness to break the law and produce unlicensed material that gets pawned off on distributors and then on to the KJ.

So, orginally manufacturers were leapfrogging each other by skipping the licensing process and going directly to market.... in hopes to beat each other with the "hottest tracks" and disc sales.... And rather than "protect" this business, they simply gutted it in the name of immediate disc sales and profits and now it's come back to haunt them.

Please see the thread I have just started regarding this discussion!

EXACTLY right, if I buy a product from a store, whether it be on the internet, or in my local town, I am LEGALLY buying that item, no matter WHAT that product is. When you purchase something, ANYTHING, do you ask the retailer if you are purchasing STOLEN GOODS? Of course you DON'T. So, if it happens to be cheaper at one store, do you automatically ASSUME that those items are stolen and go buy them from the more expensive store? I don't spend all of my time worrying if the items I bought that were made OUTSIDE the US are counterfeit or not, that's NOT MY JOB. I'm just a consumer, and if it is being sold at a ligitimate store, and I pay for it and GET A RECEIPT, it's not MY problem to figure out if the RETAILER is LEGAL.

Rosario

What the heck . . . I'll toss this out just to try and derail the thread.

By the letter of US copyright law everyone who has bought or sold a disc secondhand has committed an act of piracy. Technically, royalties are due to the copyright holders on those sales also.

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Dave's not here.

So in your perfect world, as long as you have a receipt (from a defunct or otherwise unlocatable "legit" store) for a hard drive of 150,000 tracks then it's legal? Your eager willingness to "look the other way" is simply one of the reasons that this business is in the hole it is. Unless you've only been in this business a day, you'd know that DK doesn't sell their tracks in this format EVEN through distributors.

You can attempt to justify your playing tracks that were obtained illegally all you want, it ain't holding water.

c.staley, WHERE in MY post does it say that I'm getting some fake receipt from some "defunct" store. And I didn't say ANYTHING about buying a loaded harddrive either, so PLEASE quit trying to put words in my mouth. I'm saying that if I buy SOMETHING from what is being presented as a LEGAL product, it's not my job to investigate if it is counterfeit or not. AND, NO I don't know if DK has allowed their product to be re-introduced to the US market in the SCDG format. Why would I question it, it's being sold at a store that is being represented as a LEGAL RETAILER.
Not my problem, nor do I care if anyone else buys the product or not. As I stated earlier, looks like a bargain to me!!!

Rosario

How do you figure? Selling or giving an original disc away is in no manner piracy as the original sale was the intent of that original disc. What is done as far as exchanging hands afterward is of no matter as long as there were no copies made prior to giving it/selling it - once someone buys it originally, you have every right to sell or give it away as long as you do not have a copy. If that were the case then EVERY 2nd hand store, trhift store, garage/yard sales, pawn shops, swap meets, etc would be easy targets.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

It is your responsibility if you have reason to believe (and if you're smart enough, you do) that the item you are purchasing could not possibly be legal. A receipt from a store doesn't make them any more legal.

birdofsong

Has there EVER been ANY public information released that any SCDG was/is ever illegal?

NOT SPECULATION like most of you have here, but REAL PUBLIC STATEMENTS made by manufacturers or even any legal moves to stop production of these?

ROSARIO is making GOOD SENSE and GOOD POINTS....BIRD OF SONG don't underestimate his intelligence.....concentrate on your own sketchy reasoning and insinuating insults towards this respected kj!

Does he have any reason to believe any of his purchases are illegal other than YOUR
questioning them? He HAS covered all the bases......

I don't believe I am the only one to question the legality of this format, JohnReynolds. Not by far. And I won't be the last. And I'm entitled to my opinion. Just because someone is selling these who has a storefront or provides a receipt doesn't mean they are legal, and yes, I believe we as business owners have a responsibility to at least do some checking into them instead of happily purchasing it because it's such a deal. Just because you haven't seen proof that it isn't legal doesn't mean it is. You can dress up a fish in a dress, with a pretty little bow, but it's still a fish. Sure smells fishy to me, anyway.

In addition, I never insulted anyone. It's not like I was picking on Rosario. I simply responded to a post. We're all big boys and girls here. We should be able to have an open dialogue without getting jumped on for responding.

birdofsong

birdofsong, in questioning the SCDG format, and believing that they are illegal, you are questioning some of the largest suppliers of karaoke music. I won't name any of the retailers, but just check any of the most WELL KNOWN retailers and see if they are selling SCDG's. These are NOT fly by night stores, or storefronts, some of them even sponsor this forum. Please don't take my word for it, do the research, and you will see for yourself.

Rosario

Then I am indeed questioning them. There are plenty of "reputable" CDG producers that never licensed their tracks. Just because they have a name you recognize and therefore trust, doesn't mean they are completely above board.

birdofsong

Julie, you still did not answer John's question. You may be entitled to YOUR OPINION, but that's all it is. The question put out on the table was not whether you and others believe the legality of the Super CDG format is questionable. The question NOW put out was have any statements to the nature of the SCDGs been made by the actual Manufacturers.

There is a parallel thread that address this side discussion :

http://www.karaoke-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=18861

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

Again, and hopefully for the last time, I have to say that if I make an APPARENTLY legal purchase from a retailer, and have NO reason to suspect that they are selling STOLEN goods, (other than they're cheaper), I will buy whatever I am inclined to. If the store LATER turns out to be selling ILLEGAL products, that's THEIR problem, NOT mine. I am buying the product from what is being presented as a legal retailer. How do I know if Walmart buys a million widescreen tvs from an illegal supplier, and then turns around and sells one of them to me, should I be suspicious because I bought it (cheaper). Should I call the corporate office and ask if they purchased them legally. This is sounding a LITTLE ridiculous isn't it????

Rosario

Cueball -- Actually, I don't have to do any such thing...this was my thread about a set of discs for sale...Just because it was hijacked and turned into something else that I happened to express an opinion about doesn't mean I have to jump through hoops for someone I happen to disagree with.

Some people have OPINIONS regarding people running digital systems. They're entitled to those, as well.

Anyway -- back to the REAL QUESTION AT HAND. Is anyone interested in an original set of DK 1-99 discs in excellent condition?

If not, I'll be putting them on e-bay for what I feel is a fair value. Buy whatever you'd like.

birdofsong

Julie, no good deed goes unpunished. Im going to apologize for the others that have taken a good faith deal, and that's all it is, and turned it into the raging "legal" battle. Hijacking your thread wasn't cool from the others. I hope someone will just make you a good fair offer, and everyone will be happy. If I had the means, yep, I would make an offer as well. Sadly, I don't have the kind of money these discs are really worth. In my opinion, the 1500 dollar price range is a fair price. Hope you can do at least that or better. Good luck.

Ok people. Back to the bidding!

Scott