Karaoke Forums

Dr. Fred, I agree, that's all I'm trying to say, is that I don't see where the SCDG is illegal, as they are being sold ALL OVER the internet. Not by fly by night retailers, but by some of the biggest retailers of karaoke discs. So, if they are illegal, I don't see how WE (as consumers) are supposed to decipher which of their products are legal, and which are not. The price of these (DK) SCDG's are on par with the price of other SCDG's. So, why would I suspect that they are counterfeit?

Rosario

you really cant equate the price of anything with its legitamacy

The flip side of fraud is some people sell copies of products for the same as originals ... As long as you're not buying the discs on ebay or in some alley out of the back of the car .....dont worry about it until someone sends you a legal document advising what you bought is illegal

I went to NYC about 5 or 6 years ago to visit the wifes inlaws, having never been there in my life. Wife, inlaws and myself were wandering around Manhattan when we came across some Chinatown section.

On every street corner there were vendors selling DVD's of the latest movies. Movies that had *just* came out in the theater. I was offered 3 for $10. Batman Beyond maybe? Can't remember the other two..


The ride home I was looking at the artwork on the boxes. I noticed it was printed with color laser. Then I noticed there were no copyright notices or credits. We get back to the in laws place and I pop one in.

It looked like someone had sat in the theater with a camera pointed at the screen. I could hear someone coughing. That's when it dawned on me, these were counterfeit. My New Yorker inlaws all cracked jokes at my expense about how I had been taken.

reminds me of a Seinfeld episode!

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Well you guys get my point. Common sense should have told me I was buying shady stuff and I didn't follow my inside voice.

I took a look at all these vendors selling DKK stuff on SCDG. Most of them I hadn't heard of, or they looked funny so I decided to check the ones I do know.

karaoke.com Owned by Greg Lazzeroni, a guy with a really well connected network in the manufactuer community. Not a single SCDG for sale on his site.

5starkaraoke.com advertiser on this site. They sell SCDG's, but no DK. Just the stuff we know is Officially released on SCDG (like chartbusters)

acekaraoke.com Another big karaoke shop, I've been to their booth at the NAMM show (cute booth girl too, yum) OK a few Spanish SCDG's, but nothing else

I could be wrong, but those are the 3 biggest karaoke distributors right?

Anyways, enough conjecture. If I get time tomorrow I will call Eric, but it's a preschool day for my daughter so it's going to be tough.

Exactly.
But to use your analogy further, some on here would have us investigating exactly where Blockbuster or Wal-Mart etc, gets their dvds, and would have us assuming they were ALL counterfeit until proven otherwise. That's just irrational, as far as I'm concerned.
If you buy in good faith from a source that isn't questionable(without do an in-depth investigation!), then all should be well.
I have far better things to do with my time than policing the karaoke sellers of the world. Like running my business and spending time with my family.

And Toger, if you read all of my posts on this thread you should realize that your "inner voice" isn't always right. Common sense and experience made me suspicious of two transactions regarding Chartbuster products. And upon calling Charbuster, I learned both transaction, from two different vendors, involved legit mdse! So, for me, I am done wasting any more of my time questioning the legitimacy of products being sold by what appear to be legitimate vendors!

Oh, and one of the vendors you labeled "legitimate" in one of your posts, Toger, offered me an illegal deal several years back on a CAVS system. In fact I don't believe that any of the CAVS system they sold with libraries were ever legal! And as attractive as the loaded CAVS systems were, I would not buy them based upon legitimacy! And that vendor no longer offers loaded CAVS! But again, Toger, you're sure they are legit! Well, they might be today?

I don’t believe that not carrying SCDGs is as noble as seems to be portrayed here. If there is income to be made, a merchant will make it.

I’d rather attribute the above stats to the idea that they just aren’t profitable.

The SCDG started as a proprietary product to support the CAVS players; and essentially still is. So, if I were a distributer that didn't carry the product line, I wouldn't necessarily carry the supporting software either. I suppose it all depends on what profit I figure I could earn on the product.

I'm not surprised that many of the larger distributers choose not to deal with a product that may not sell. However, I have noticed some in the past who had tried, only to be forced to drastically reduce their price just to move them from their inventory.

Now available technology allows us to rip from the SCDG to our computers, and as such it’s possible that the SCDG has probably seen a bit of an increase in demand.

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Our little inner voice on what is "right and wrong" on this matter can be wrong.
All of us may buy illegal items we have no intention of buying, while others may avoid an item that is in fact legal.

However this forum provides an opportunity to get a consensus on the inner voices of many KJs on the matter applied to a specific case. Hopefully that consensus is more likely to be right than most of us individually.

Sure it sometimes breaks down into the details of why we think the way that we do but it is really just a matter of finding a consensus.

Not sure which one you are talking about, but if it was Acekaraoke, I talke to them about a cavs unit years ago that was loaded, but was also offered the actual cdg's of what was on it as well. I know they still do that with their Acesonic player as well.

What gets me is if SCDG's of Chartbuster are being created, you cannot get them through Chartbuster themselves?

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Up until just recently, Ace Karaoke offered the Cavs players for sale, and also the Chartbuster SCDGs. They are now phaseing out all of their SCDGs. They will no longer have the players, or the discs.

Rosario

What is "legal" - truly?

For an answer to that question, I'd say consult a lawyer. But then again, do they even know?

However, I can tell you for certain that this



is definitely NOT legal unless the KJ owns the copyright or is licenced by the copyright holder/s of every disc to do so. And I don't believe anyone could successfully argue against a charge of receiving stolen property that they were buying from the KJ "in good faith".

OK since I own CAVS Super CD+G of Chartbuster's E1-6 I thought I'd take a look at them and see what's up.

Super CD+G and SCDG are registered trademarks of CAVS USA Inc.
So Chartbuster or anyone else making these discs can not label them as Super CDG+G or SCDG without CAVS permission (which I don't think they would allow).
That is why Chartbuster does not make them and why would they distribute someone else's discs. Thus CAVS is making the discs.

According to the CAVS website you can still buy SCDG's from them. I don't know makes the music but I did see one listing for Warner Music.

The discs carry all the Chartbuster logo's as does the Song listing that comes with the disc so I'm taking it that Chartbuster has allowed them to do this.

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Then what I believe you are saying, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that CAVs is format shifting CB property and then reselling them. Does CAVs have permission or paid CB to do so?

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Ok, hope this put SOME of this to rest. In order to format shift from cdg to scdg, FOR COMMERCIAL USE, you have to get a license from CAVS. I talked to a CAVS representative, and he told me that the CHARTBUSTER scdg had to be put out by Chartbuster, because CAVS only puts out THEIR scdg's. SO, I called Chartbuster, the woman told me that Chartbuster USED to sell the Chartbuster vol 1-6 scdg up until 2007. So I asked her if the Chartbuster vol. 1-6 scdg being sold NOW were LEGAL. She told me that if the distributor STILL had stock left, that they were LEGAL to sell. I asked if she knew how many were AUTHORIZED, she said that she didn't know. SO, I guess that leaves us back at square one, as we don't know how many were authorized. So as far as the question of SCDG (format) being legal, it is as legal as far as the Manufacturer gives Distributors permission.

Rosario

According to the Chartbuster rep I just talked with, they said they had SCDG for a short time but discontinued making them some years back are are no longer available, you can probably find some in the retail pipeline, but nothing has been released through them for a few years.

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Exactly, she told me that they quit making them in 2007, but distributers may still have stock left.

Rosario

Ok so congrats on a great find Rosario!



(I am presuming them to be legal since even CB admits that some may still be hanging around).

Can we stop this silly bickering now?

I'd LOVE IT. I've ALWAYS disliked these threads, because they are SO polarizing. NOW, back to KARAOKE.

Rosario