Karaoke Forums

The following is the conclusion that the OP (original poster) came to at the end of his OP (original post).


And I decided that Toqer's conclusion was the subject (focal point) of this thread. yes? no?

Anyway, having found the question to be a fairly "new" topic on the forum, I decided to jump in. Basically, I explained that the way I run my business, wireless mics are often very much a part of what I do. Particularly, I mentioned using a headset which no one else has even touched upon!

It seems, given the opportunity, we'll digress to discussing the quality of the mics we each prefer. And if someone uses something we don't like, we'll let them know that we use something better. Some will even pontificate that you couldn't possible run a karaoke show with anything less than_______(fill in the blank), while there are hosts doing just that.

And we ignore what we are told by KJ's, some even using NADY mics, that what they use is working for them even though it TECHNICALLY doesn't stack up to _______(fill in the black)!

Oddly, no one stops to consider that whatever a person is using and likes is working "perfectly" FOR THEM. Some people have libraries that are heavily tilted towards country while other don't. Some people use audio monitors, while others don't. Some people insist you must use a sub, while others are less enthusiastic about them! So, people have their personal preferences. For me, I still truly don't understand chocolate ice cream. If they never made another pint of it I wouldn't even notice. But for the person who likes chocolate, you'd better not mess with it!

So, specifically, in response to the OP.

NO MIC is a waste of money if it serves the purpose for which it was purchased! And I have purposes for both my wired and cordless mics. And I have purposes for both my cheap and better quality mics!

Nothing kills a discussion faster than when someone starts spouting common sense.

Spoilsport.

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Dave's not here.

Yeah no kidding. Damn Tovmod, now what am I going to do with my day. Seriously your point is well taken and understood and I had hoped to not lose site of that while pointing out some technical details that were being ignored. I don't ever mean to say that someone's choice is wrong for them, and I certainly didn't ever mean to imply that someone has to buy any particular level of product to run a successful show. I only sought to counter a claim by another poster that I know from experience is outright false. My apologies for the part I played in any digression from the original topic.

Yes, as Jam (I believe) said earlier, it is ultimately about getting the show done and having fun. And as a host you always have to consider BS factor of your job. So if wireless mics are too much of a hassle for your situation and therefore push up the BS factor, I can understand why hosts would move away from them. For me, wireless makes my life easier and my stage cleaner (removing much of the BS factor) so I've stuck with them. My wireless mics ARE NOT top of the line but perform to a level that I'm happy with for the purpose at hand and make my life a lot easier while delivering results that I can be proud of.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

Well, for me, I have come to pretty much the same conclusion.
I learned early on from local shows I attended in the past, before I hosted any shows of my own, that wireless mics, although "cool"(especially back then), were more of a PITA than anything.
I've seen the usual "singer-wants-to hide-and-not-be-the-center-of-attention" (huh?? What's the point, then??) so they sit at their table and the crowd doesn't know where to look.
I've seen mics not being returned to the stage and left on tables because the singer wandered during their song and couldn't be bothered to bring them back up.
I've seen mics being snatched from the singer's hands after wandering into the crowd and being screamed into by the snatchees.
I've seen mics take a walk right out the door, never to be seen again. One even ended up swimming in the toilet in a hotel room upstairs. Cost the KJ plenty on that one!
In short, because of what I saw, I only use wired mics. I can control any situation that arises because they are right there on stage with me, or if I happen to be in the crowd, I know exactly where to go if there's a problem (the stage!).
Yes, you get the doorknobs who like to swing the mic and bang on them and cup them. I generally put a stop to it right away and I'm not low-key about it either! Right after I have a mic swinger, I make an announcement over the mic that swinging is not ok, that it breaks the cable and often times do it with a little humour. "if I'M unhappy, that makes YOU unhappy!"
I also do the same for mic bangers and let them know that it's not so pleasant for the crowd to listen to, either. That usually gets them, as the crowd generally cheers in agreement.
Sometimes I give a quick demonstration on the negative effects of a cupped mic and the benefits of using it correctly (thanks, toqer!) if there are a fair number of newbies in the room.
I haven't had to tape the mic to a stand as yet, and here's crossing my fingers that I won't have to.
I am usually pretty on top of it and put a stop to any shenanigans before it gets out of hand, even if it means shutting down the singer and the song. Thankfully, that's rare.
In general, it only takes the proverbial few doorknobs to wreck it for the rest, but it IS MY money I'm spending on MY equipment and I refuse to spend big bucks on equipment that isn't respected like it should be, even when others are critical of my decision. (Hasn't happened yet, except maybe for folks on here, so it's a moot point).
Remember, it's MY money I'm spending!
It's far cheaper to replace/repair mic cords and/or cheaper wired mics than to replace a wireless. On a side note, I refuse to buy cheap wireless mics. They sound terrible!
Until the day that EVERYONE respects my equipment EVERY TIME, I will continue to use my Behringer XM1500S's. Here's hoping Behringer never goes out of business!

Whoops sorry Toqer, missed your question until just now. Let me explain it a different way and see if I can make my point more clearly than I did the first time. Let me paraphrase your question. Basically you want to know if a Shure SM58 (wired) is every bit as good as the top of the line wireless microphones. I said no because when you consider that the top of the line (at least in my opinion) would be a Neumann 104 or 105 on a Sennheiser 5200 transmitter, then no. Thats an amazing microphone cartridge mounted on a phenominal transmitter that performs amazingly well. So in your case I understood your question to be if you compare the SM58 to all wireless microphone and cartridge combinations, is it still as good or better than the best of the wireless. To me there are better options in the upper realms of the wireless world because of the performance of a top of the line cartridge coupled with a high quality transmitter.

Jian's statement was essentially that a SM58 (or any other) cartridge on a wired base will always sound better than the same cartridge on a wireless transmitter. I disagree with this too and honestly believe no on on this forum would be able to tell the difference between high-end wireless and wired. So essentially his is a comparison of wired versus the wireless transmitter (assuming all other factors are equal).

If I misunderstood your question and what you're asking is does a wired SM58 sound just as good as a wireless SM58, then yes absolutely. It should never sound any worse because it's the same dynamic cartridge just with a different signal path.

To summarize, I don't believe a wireless mic will ever sound better than it's wired counterpart (i.e. SM58 wireless vs SM85 wired) however I don't believe that it's a given that the wireless version will be detectably different and in many cases does sound just as good.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

I never said you couldn't do what you want to do. It is a question of what you are trying for. If "good enough for karaoke" is your attitude, fine. Just don't try to pass it off as good-quality sound. It isn't. It is lousy sound and is a compromise. Personally, I believe the extra $2.00 per show that pro-quality mics cost is well worth it. (And it may not even cost more, in the long run.)

I suppose many KJs think their customers are just palookas and dumbos, but people *do* notice how they sound. The shows with great equipment are in nicer places and last longer.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

To answer simply ---YES --I've never heard or read about any complaints about a wired SM58.

But to ask another question.... Whether one microphone is better than another is a personally choice made only by the singer? ...no matter what anyone really say's
If the singer doesn't like the way it sounds ( microphone or mix) ....it isn't good
Whether you spend $39 or $600 on a microphone

That is true jam, but if you do have a trained ear for sound (and I not only mean KJs, singers have that too) you will definitely appreciate a quality microphone over a wireless Nady for $39.

A friend of mine used them for a while for Karaoke and I really didn't like them at all. I'm used to my Beta 58's and there is just no comparison in quality and clear sound towards the Nady. I'm just being honest, I noticed the crappy sound immediately when singing the first time through the Nady's.

OK I have one last thing to say on this topic and this applies to every aspect of what we do. ** An absence of complaints is by no means an endorsement or measure of quality for our equipment, our methods or our personality. ** I see it on this forum all the time, well no one complains so it must be good. That is simply not true. The fact is, most people are non-confrontational and would rather exercise their right to no longer frequent your show than tell you they think something is wrong or of poor quality.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

Absolutely correct. All too common a belief....nobody's complaining, I must be doing this right. I have seen this happen over and over - they'll continue to frequent a place with crappy __________(fill in the blank yourself) until they find something better...and the air goes out of the place.

I edited out of the preceding the specific suggestion that the absence of complaints could incorrectly be viewed as a reflection upon the quality of the equipment in use. I don't know how anyone can conclude much about any individual piece of the COMPLEX equation that adds up to success?

But the true barometer of success is simple - a history of long-running, successful shows.

And I know of many such shows that use "cheap" Vocopro cordless mics. And I can't say that I have ever found any reason to disparage those mics nor have I ever heard any other singer at the shows where I have used them, do so! They work for me and I'll probably get some one of these days!

I couldn't agree more. You also can't gauge the quality of a show by the cost of equipment. The real gauge of a karaoke show is if the management is happy, the customers and singers satisfied and returning. Any hack can and does get karaoke shows. HOLDING on to it is the KEY ---Getting compliments, private gigs and eventually additional gigs is a true measure of success.

Yes some KJ's can do that with VOCOPRO some with ALLEN HEARTH and most with something inbetween.

Agreed, I've seen some phenominal equipment in the hands of morons sound horrible. I've also seen hosts with great equipment who just sucked when it came to running a show. And I've seen great hosts with cheap equipment keep a place rocking all night long. It's about the total package.

I used Vocopro mics for a long time, I was happy with them. They did the job well, had long battery life and a good range. They were very convenient (one rack space housed four receivers) and the folks at my shows seemed to enjoy them. However, I had to replace them in advance of the 700MHz band selling and made the decision to go to the Shures. It wasn't that I was unhappy with the Vocopros but knew I'd be even happier with the Shures. So the decision was as much about my preference as anything else. Yes I did get a lot of people who noticed the difference and had positive things to say, but honestly, my only concern was that I liked them better.

So do I feel the Shure mics make my show better? Maybe a little from an audio quality perspective, but in the grand scheme, their impact is minimal.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

We give people a choice. We have two stands set up side by side and one has a Nady cheapo and one has a wired Audix OM2. The singers can pick what they want. The only influence from us is if someone appears who obviously has a voice then I will direct them to the Audix.

3 out of 15 of our regular singers prefer the Audix. Of those, one likes it because of the skull pattern rather than the sound. The others like the fun factor of the Nadys. I don't have to worry or project an uptight attitude if they are accidently dropped. I don't think I would provide an expensive wireless because of the times they have been dropped (6 times so far the past year).

If we were at a different venue with a well defined stage visable to the entire room and mic stands that weren't on the dance floor ripe for cord entanglement then we might just have corded. But for where we are we seem to have the combination that makes the singers happy. We play it by ear, so to speak.

Exactly, I wouldn't ever literally complain - if the show is packed, someone obviously goes there, I just do not return. Or would a host rather hear from their singers - Hey your stuff (or sound in general) sucks pretty bad, I won't be returning? I think they would not. Funny thing is what people perceive as 'good' sound. I went to shows based on meeting kj's & they always state how great their sound is, some claiming great equipment, some boasting great libraries, to go check them out & have piercing, tinny sound, cranked up to the verge of distortion, feedback, dead air, etc...I know this is kind of going off track, but it's all perception of what sounds good.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

We get the "I sound so much better here!" exclamation all the time, even with the Nadys but I will grant you that our immediate competition are one computer:one speaker shows.

It's the cost of doing business the only time I had a fit was when someone intentionally threw the mic on the ground. I that point I beat the crap out of the guy and threw him out of the bar.

Mics generally can be fixed by Shure for about $100. I buy new battery covers and balls all the time cause they get dropped.

The guy was having fun...things will happen no big deal.

At the present time, I am running a wireless mic at the booth. I have two wireless mic for the singers, 2 wire mics to use for groups (Ex. Man of Constant Sorrow). I have 3 screens A flat screen behind them one mounted up in the ceiling and a third on the wall. I want the singers to work the crowd and enjoy their 4 mins of fame. Oh and by the way if a singer gets out of hand, I remind them that mic is $400 and I am not a employee of the company, but contracted to them. It's my equipment

On the wired vs wireless thing I'll say that the Shure PG58 wired sounds worse than the Performance Grade transmitter with PG58 cartridge. The wired has waaay more handling noise. That being said, my PG58 wireless on my 2nd rig looks like crap with a busted up battery cover. It'll be upgraded to the PG4/SM58 combo soon enough!

Jonn

I love the SM58, and it is my main karaoke mic. But I never get why anyone would recommend PG58 wired. As far as I am concerned, the Behringer XM8500 blows that away.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.