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I saw on another post people were talking about the perfect compact system. this question interests me, although I probably don't want to spend crazy $$$. I have a 15" B-52 sub, and it sounds real good to me. I saw dynacord had a nice 12" sub. but it is 3grand. anybody use this before? when my B-52 craps out someday (if it ever does, it's a beast) i'd like to get something better, and maybe smaller. start doing the research now, be ready for the inevitable. it would be real nice to get great sound out of a 12" sub. I'd rather not spend 3 grand though.

http://www.planetdj.com/v--Dynacord

what about this one? seems small. I think I'd rather not go below 12" sub...

http://www.yorkville.com/products.asp?t ... t=2&id=239

anybody heard these types of subs (12" or less)? any info here would be nice. I was thinking about spending 2 grand for a nice powered sub with 2 10" PA. dynacord has the 12" with 8 inch speakers. I bet they sound great, but they are about 4 grand I think.

anyway, looking to get something better and maybe a little smaller in the next couple of years. I can start looking now in case something blows sooner than later...

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[glow=red]Yo sucka, we need this hea CHOPTER, and we need it now![/glow]

How about this:

http://www.kxaudio.com/products.asp?ProdID=KX1.2

It's what I'm using with my EV ZX1, simply amazing

We have the York as a back up to our bigger ones. We've used it in shows and for a small bin it thumps pretty good.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

I had a few of the yorkvilles I got them clearence from my local rental place for $200 each. They were not loud enough to DJ I sold them to a bar owner to use with their tv sound setup.

The Dynacord 12"s rock I know a guy that has 2 of them.

I have heard the KV2 in a demo room They are nice but not even close to Dynacord.

The 3rd choice is QSC k-Sub

Electro Voice makes the Sb2a which is a powered 12" sub that weighs in at about 35 pounds. I saw one on the internet for $869 with free delivery. Who knows, maybe you could find it for less. I use the passive version. I bought a pair of open box for $279 each about 2 years ago from NLFXPro. Great company, great service, great pricing.

The powered and passive weigh about the same and I can carry one sub in each hand at the same time. The woofer is a 12" cone with the guts of an 18" speaker. In other words, magnet, voice coil etc. of an 18". It's rated at 400/800/1600 and I have never tapped it's true potential because I don't have an amp powerful enough. A PLX 3102 or the new Peavey IPR 3000(8 pounds) or the Behringer EPX 3000(21 pounds) would work nicely and all three are powerful enough to run passive tops and the sub(s) on one amp. I know you asked about powered, just thought I would throw that out for food for thought.

The Sb2a sub is almost identical in look and size with the EV SX100+, SX300 and the SXa360(powered version of the SX300). It was designed to work with all of those. I own a pair of the passive Zx1(8"), SX100+ and a pair of the passive SX300. They all kick A$$.

I've seen/heard the QSC Ksub a couple of times and I thought it sounded good. It's not outrageously heavy at 74 pounds and it has casters which make moving it pretty easy. At about $1,000 it warrants a good look/listen IMO.

Thanks for all the info. Exactly what I was looking for.

I see they don't make the sb2a anymore. They now have different once called sb122, and I couldn't find a powered version on EVs website.....that KX looks sweet by the way. harder to get in the US though. looks like the sb2a might win me over with it's 35 pound weight and availability, the Ksub over doubles that weight. the Ksub would have to really blow the sb2a away....if it sounded twice as good as the sb2a I'd probably get the ksub.

Which brings me to another question. kinds goes along with what stogie was saying. Keeping in mind that I want better sound eventually, want to lighten up/make myself more portable without sacrificing sound quality, already have a great mixing board (zed12fx): should I go passive and get a 3-4 channel amplifier with crossover? Would I have to run more wires? would it be alot more expensive for the same quality of sound? would it take up a whole lot more space? I like to keep it simple, but I don't mind a little more complexity if it would sound much better and give me more bang for my buck, and possibly even be lighter. maybe the fact that the pa systems like B-52 matrix come with the crossover and amp built in makes them weigh more but take up less space. I'd be saving space with a smaller sub though, so maybe adding an amp wouldn't be as big a deal.

hey, and if the price of all this approached 3000 bucks, I'd probably just go with the Dynacord D-Lite 1000. but I'd have to hear it first. 8 inch speakers scare me.

please comment.

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[glow=red]Yo sucka, we need this hea CHOPTER, and we need it now![/glow]

I wasn'r aware that the Sb2a was not being made anymore, but I imagine a newer, similar sub will take it's place. As far as powered vs. passive goes, passive is going to be less expensive. If you go with either the Peavey IPR 3000 or the Behringer EPX 3000, bot amps are about $400 and can easily run 2 tops and two small subs like the Sb122. Both amps have built in crossovers and both are very powerful.

Passive system:Amp $400, pair of good quality tops-around $800-$1,200, cables $75=$1,275-$1,675 roughly. I can fit two tops and both subs on one small cart. Second trip is the mixer, bags with cables and microphones, computer bag and amp. If you mount your mixer, wireless mic and amp in a slant top rack it's maybe a bit easier.

The little bitty passive EV subs are in a class by themselves as far as output for the price and portability. I don't know of any other small portable subs that are 35 pounds that put out what the EVs do, but I've never compared them to the Peavey PR sub. which is small, light, portable and cheap.

On the other hand, I was looking at a pair of the Behringer powered B415DSP speakers for $758 including shipping and I bet you could get away without using subs with them. I haven't heard them yet, but I have a hunch that they sound really good. For that kind of money it's a no brainer if they sound good. I'm planning to head over to the local Guitar Center to hear them, I'll call first to see if they have them on display.

Just to thoroughly cover all the bases, Vocopro makes a 15" powered sub and it's dirt cheap, $350. Samson makes a 15" powered sub that retails for $600, but I haven't heard it yet. I have no idea if either one is any good . . .

Now that EV no longer has the active SB122, I still think the KV2 1.2 is a bargain
It's a powered sub with an active crossover and at that price, you simply won't find anything better

I agree with stogie, the sb122 are very good but I did compared with this KX 1.2 and I tell you, the KX has a better controlled base

Here`s a good link where you can buy

http://www.progearsupply.com/proddetail ... KV2+KX+1.2

I probably wouldn't buy another 15" sub if I can find a hi quality 12" sub that sounds marginally better than a mid-quality 15" sub, so for sure cheap 15s are out..... just making generalzations, I don't have extensive experience in what a mid-quality15" sounds like, I've pretty much gleaned that idea from the info on this site. ie you fine people.

I also like having a sub. I don't think I'd not have a sub.

I feel like my B-52 15" sub is a midgrade sub. I still love the sound by the way. anyway, I bet the KV or ksub or sb2a sounds just as good when compared to my current sub, or better if my guess is correct. if anyone had some real life data on this it would be nice. thanks for that link micky. I probably would go for the KV knowing I could get it for that low. I kept finding it for much higher in foreign currency. sweet. now I know what direction to go in when I want to upgrade, which I won't do until this sucker blows. maybe it won't EVER! but I doubt it. nice to know I have hi-quality more portable options. this hernia surgery I recently had will be happier now.

thanks - jim

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http://www.krksys.com/product_krk10.php


just to add one more piece to this. I read on the reviews of this subwoofer sounding better than cheaper 15" subwoofers. nice shape too. although it is just a studio woofer, it supposedly cranks out the sound....saw it for $349 on ebay. interesting option, although I would probably just get one of the 12" higher priced subs already talked about on this thread. maybe someone looking for a smaller sub could use it...

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[glow=red]Yo sucka, we need this hea CHOPTER, and we need it now![/glow]

Just a little story for perspective. When I was first starting out I went to Circuit City to look at home theater subs thinking maybe I could save some money. What I found out was that the little subs they were selling were not in the same league as Pro Audio gear and would never hold up to the use that we put them to. That KRK is a toy compared to the EV subs. Those EV subs are tough and powerful. They will pound when used with an amp that is powerful. They can handle peak 1600 watts. A speaker like that will last many years and you need to try real hard to blow it up. Quality, genuine, professional gear.

Don't fool around with studio monitors, you'll blow them, they will self destruct and they aren't made for live sound. All my EV speakers are remarkable and you just have to use some to understand the difference in durability, quality and superior sound reproduction compared to other speakers. Research it and find out if I'm blowing smoke or giving you the straight skinny. Once you go EV you won't look at any other speakers. There is a reason they have such a good reputation and are used in restaurants, bars, auditoriums, stadiums and by many professionals. If you were here in the Tampa Bay area I could show you and what I'm saying would be clear.

Here is another one you can possibly cosider: http://www.directproaudio.com/product.c ... ctid=53688

I had to go to some euro dj sights to find reviews but it was fairly positive in the reviews and then later I found sone reviews on another DJ forum sight here in the states.

It is light weight, the price is right. Just more food for thought.

I almost went with it but then settled for a Yorkville 15' powered sub. Love it!

Yorkville also makes a dual 10" powered sub.
http://www.directproaudio.com/product.c ... ctid=54499
I heard this one...it puts out a real thump.

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Music speaks to the heart in ways words cannot express.

I saw that dual 10. I think I'd stick with a 15" before doing the dual 10. don't like the layout, too long. I thnk the 12" is where I will probably end up. that 12" DB looks cool. added to my shortlist. thanks.

as far as EV goes sure, I believe you!!! but do they have a hot sounding 12" sub? sounds like for the money and sound the 12" sub is where it is at for true portability. to tell you the truth, I love my B-52. I crank it up and it kills. I'm just assuming that people here know what they are talking about and those expensive subs really do sound way better than my cheaper b-52. I went to a wedding recepetion a couple years ago and the sound was great. It was a big place with 170+ people there, and it didn't seem crowded. Not huge, but pretty big. I decided to go look at what they had, and it was MY SYSTEM. I'm sure they had more add-ons, but they were using that 15" sub and it was filling the place. I looked around for other subs and could find none. It sounded great. Maybe it was an 18, but I don't think so. very surprising. my point is, I'm not dissatisfied with my system, I just want to down-size if possible eventually. maybe for the other speakers EV would work. i'll have to look into that. I mean, do they have a great powered 12" sub?

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[glow=red]Yo sucka, we need this hea CHOPTER, and we need it now![/glow]

I forgot about the Yorkville LS720P which is probably what RLC has. About $800 and 74 pounds. I'd love to hear both the LS720P and the QSC K sub in a shootout.

Hamsamich, the EV Sb2a IS a powered 12" woofer, I'm not sure how you could have missed that? Anyways, if you get a chance go listen to one or the passive version.

I was going to post an angry, 5:30AM rant on this thread, but I changed my mind. I'll just say that with the current laws of physics (damn them) and the current loudspeaker technology available to us, you can't combine
1) small size
2) low-frequency
and
3) high output

It just can't be done with the technology we have. You can find subs that make a lot of boom-boom with 10" or 12" drivers, sure, but they are horn subs or multi-driver subs that are bigger than a typical 18" direct radiator. I'm sure the point of the OP's post is to find a compact sub that works well, so a 12" driver in a huge box is not really useful.

For an example, head on over to the LAB sub forum and download the plans (see sticky threads): http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/f/3/23647/ These are very loud subs that go really low. In multiples, they will crush my beloved JBL SRX subs. And you can build them yourself. They use 12" drivers (two per sub) but they are BIG. 4 feet by 4 feet by 2 feet. Way bigger than the OP wants, I'm sure.

The QSC Ksub is another good example. That is a CRAP sub. It is totally useless for modern "dance music." Not bad for kick drum, but besides that, it's total crap.

I envy the efforts of you guys looking for a product like this, a small, powerful sub that can do the job without a lot of lifting and such; but there are some pretty sucky limits to how small or how loud or how low it can get. Damn laws of physics.

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

We have the York 700s and they are fabulous. I had mentioned to NX200s earlier because the OP was looking for something small.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

They are okay, and honestly, the LS720P is much better than most subs mentioned on this thread; but I have met several people who love those Yorkville subs (mostly because a local music store really pushes them on people for rentals) and thought they were so great, just because they'd never really heard PA subs that actually were good for their application.

There is a large difference between subs that are good for typical bar-band kick drum reinforcement, and subs that cover the whole range of a bass guitar. Coincidentally, a sub that works well for everything a bass guitar can put out is also a great sub for modern "dance music" that DJs play at bars and clubs.

-3dB or better to 40Hz is a good figure for this type of use. The LS720P basically does that (although I do not think it sounds particularly good.) There is content below 40Hz but not very much; however a really good sub that can reproduce it will sound very impressive compared to one that can't.

If you don't believe me, I really suggest you take your iPod, load up some of the music you play at your gigs, go to a store that sells the JBL SRX subs, and ask for a demonstration.

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

I have two DB Technologies SUB 12s that are incredible. They are made by a British company (nothing to do with DBX). I drive them HARD and they have done a great job. Once I switched from two 15" subs to these subs, my bar owner actually complains more about the vibrations in his office. Two of them easily fill my 8000 sq ft bar with warm, punchy bass.

12 inch, 400 watts each, powered subs, great circuitry.

They also weigh only about 40 lbs. each, so they are easy to move and fit snugly in the car.

I bought them at this site:

http://www.instrumentpro.com/P-DBSUB12?source=froogle

They have them listed at $666.00 each, but I bargined with the guy and they sold them to me for $550.00 each.

After destroying three sets of 15" subs, these have been the best investment I've made in my system over the last couple of years.

HIGHLY recommend!!

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C Mc
KJ, FL

You would be suprized what sound comes fron the D-Lite.

When I have the cash I'm stepping up to the D-Lite 2000 for my wedding system.

I could have gotten one a few years ago for $3600 I'm now kicking myself.

Actually studio monitors are exacly made for live sound - when a band records in a studio, what do you think the engineer is using to listen in the booth? Studio montiors are just not really designed to be used as PA systems in general and typically sound best within a few feet - hence the term 'nearfield' monitor.

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