Karaoke Forums

This post is spawned from another thread:

Most independent KJ’s who are not running multi rig operations work 1 or 2 days a week. The average pay for a nights work in usual karaoke bar is $125-$175 tops.

Sure every KJ would love to have $400 wireless microphones along with $600 speaker tops, monitors and a pair of $900 sub woofers powered by 3 -800 watt amps with a rack of full of effects, processors and enhancers. I know I would love to have the baddest system money could buy and I bet all the singers would just LOVE to sing on a system like that.

When I 1st started out in this BUSINESS I had a rack full of equipment, 60lb speakers and used nothing but the best microphones. I would break my back every week loading in and out and setting up in bar that I worked at. One day another DJ/KJ came in and looked at my rig and said “man you got to be crazy to lug that stuff in and out every night for $150”. And I agree …I was crazy. For the type of business I have which is a part time 1 day a week type of business (OUT OF CHOICE) it was insane.

Since that time I’ve gradually scaled back to where I now just use a POWERED MIXER and 2 lite weight Peavey 15” tops a wired SM58 and an inexpensive dual wireless set up.

I still make the same amount of money as I did before, the time to set up and tear down was cut in half and the overall sound of the show did not suffer. I know the sound would improve with better equipment. I also know driving a Porsche would be a better thrill than my Chevy. But you have to weigh the pros and cons of spending money and the return on your investment in a business.

So to those singers who want to look down on a KJ or karaoke show because they use Behringer equipment or Vocopro microphones I say – stop and think – Sit down have some fun and support the KJ in there trying to make a living.

Man, there for a minute i thought you were describing my weekly routine, what a back breaker but they do come to sing on my system and get great compliments for it.

After i have my knee sugery (yes in the morning @ 8:15) I need to rethink my setup but my fear is i will loose quality of sound by going to power spealers of power mixer. This thought process is pretty much based on the other kj systems in my area I have heard that hardly match what i have. (Now I know alot has to do with the kj setting the sound right). Seems like most of them are tone deaf and don't know how to mix right.

I do need to save the knees and the back!

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No venue to big or too small. From your den to the local club or event, we have the music most requested. Great sounding system!

could not agree more i use the same set up (with one exception that has a house system ) and people come to my shows because they know they will have FUN

I can tell you as a singer, I prefer to seek out places that tend to have better equipment with hosts that take the time to actually work the boards. Karaoke is so typically a powered mixer & a couple cheap speakers that stand out from no other company that uses the exact same stuff...these places usually attract low grade to ok singers and an occasional good to great singer. Yes I can have fun in these places if that is all there is, but prefer a nicer system which tend to attract better singers overall, a much more enjoyable karaoke show IMO. This also generally leads me to believe the host is more apt to take care of their singers if there equipment is better.

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[shadow=deepskyblue]I'm impressed, I've never met such a small mind inside such a big head before.[/shadow]

I have gone and supported friend/hosts before -- some with gerry-rigged gear, one speaker, bad connections, no tv for the audience -- ONE TIME. If I am going to make arrangements to go and sing out on a night I'm not hosting, I want the best bang for my buck. (Thanks Lonnie -- long drive but worth it once every few months.)

I've never settled in my life and I won't do it with my equipment or sound. I cater to my singers with the best music choice I can afford and the best equipment I can get. Simple. Yes, it has occurred to me that the stuff doesn't get any lighter -- but I laugh it off, consider it part of my exercise routine. But that is also the reason we dumped heavy racks with a lot of components (without compromising sound) for active gear. And I do tweak the board constantly. Come on TTT, sing with me sometime. You're the kind of singer I LOVE to have at my show.

I agree that a lot of how singers sound has to do with working the board. I've seen thunderous house sound systems with multiple 18" subs that simply aren't suited for live vocals. They sound great when DJs are spinning though.

Each venue has its own acoustical challenges, depending on how the room is laid out. I use 2 Mackie SM-450's for the majority of my karaoke shows and they always sound great. More than enough power. Working the EQ and EFX on the board and the music/singer levels brings it all together.

Moving to powered speakers is the best thing I've ever done for my show. Load-ins aren't always easy and I ain't exactly that young either. Technology has advanced to the point where there are many lightweight gear options without sacrificing quality sound.

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[font=Lucida Console]DangerousKaraoke.com[/font]
[font=Lucida Console]"Sing for the day, sing for the moment, sing for the time of your life!"[/font]

I just bought the Yamaha EMX512SC and I run two Behringer B212s with it on my Thursday night gig. It's a rather small room and I have had ZERO complaints and loads of compliments. On my Sunday gig, I tie into the venue's sound system. I happen to think it sounds pretty darn good. The key is to MIX the sound and to adapt for each singer.
Like Jam said, I am a part time KJ and have only 2 regular gigs a week. I work with a limited budget and can only justify a fantastic sound system so much. I just bought the new Yamaha mainly because my old Behringer powered mixer was getting older and we were able to sell it for a reasonable price that made it worth it. I also wanted the compression option that the Yamaha has, but the Behringer was lacking. It also weighs next to nothing. I was shocked at how little it weighed and had my doubts about it, but it has definitely proved me wrong!
I also have a very bad knee and the weight of both the Yamaha mixer and the speakers make it very worthwhile and reasonable to me. I am able to carry the equipment by myself when necessary, unlike other "better" systems, such as the Yorkville Excursion, which, although I love the sound it puts out, I would find impossible to use, due to the weight and my knee issues.
PS; good luck with the knee surgery, rumbolt. I've been living with my knee issues for the last 3 years with no end in sight. Let's hope this solves your problems in that area.

And karaoke is sometimes a unsettling experience comprised of a good system and a host who hasn't a clue that the board needs to be tweaked or how to do it

And karaoke is sometimes a good system, a good mix, a bunch of singers singing for themselves and a host that has no clue on how to breathe some life into the room and make the evening enjoyable for everyone

And karaoke is sometimes so-so equipment, a great mix and a bunch of people having fun!


And I take no better care of my singers today, than I did when I started out and had less equipment and lesser quality equipment (and made MORE money)

Oh... and while my wife's car costs twice as much as mine, I don't change the oil in her car any more frequently than in my own!

IMHO, the better hosts are "entertainers" of sorts, not just someone who works a board well and calls up the next singer. And the better hosts are what make for the better show!!

Now, those of you who want to jump up and down and scream about the quality of the equipment being of primary importance, GO AHEAD AND DO SO.... ready?

I am satisfied from mingling with and speaking to the local attendees of karaoke shows, the equipment ain't all that -- at least around my neck of the woods! And I am convinced that in spite of my great equipment, if I don't provided an entertaining show the maximizes the number of people who get involved with what I am doing, the show is not all that good, in spite of my great equipment!

And might you want to guess how popular are the shows that are hosted by beautiful females. I've seen a few such shows that attract a bunch of guys and while there is nothing positive I can say about the show's equipment there is plenty positive to be said about the hostess' equipment!

So, yes, I guess it is what you come equipped with that counts, but that isn't necessarily your sound system! For most, it is our personalities and entertaining skills! For others it maybe anatomical?

But seriously, for most people, it is NOT the equipment. I've been singing karaoke since 1995 and never once made the decision as to where I wanted to go based upon the equipment.... NOT ONCE!!! And nobody who I have discussed various shows with have put the equipment high on their list of what they expect. It wasn't until I joined this forum that I learned that there are people who actually do. And I really feel sorry for them! They so limit themselves to where they can go to have a good time and how they define "having a good time".

So, we each define our experience based upon what we expected. If it's all in the equipment FOR YOU then nothing anybody does is going to turn your night into "gold" if the equipment disappoints you. If you'd rather have a great night of fun, lighten up and forget about the equipment. Go out with the expectation of having fun, and more often than not, you will!

You might even come to enjoy the experience in new and different ways. I'll get up and sing songs I've never done before at karaoke. And even assuming I "know" the song I have no idea what the karaoke "gods" will hand me on the strange track that I selected to use! Does that stop me from having fun? You bet your bippy it doesn't. Do I sometimes come off sounding like "doo-doo"? Yep. So what?

And consider that if there are times that I can't predict how I might perform, who am I to get particular about how the equipment performs?

It all boiled down to ROI. Having a $50K sound system does not make sense if a KJ is only paid $150 per gig.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

Having a $500.00 sound system makes no sense for a $150.00 gig if you have no gigs. Therein lies the conundrum.

I don't think it takes great backline sound gear, myself. A pair of Yamaha S115V and a Yamaha EMX512SC sound real good to me when adjusted well and used in the right size of room. Even Peavey PR-15s sound OK to me when things are done right -- speaker placement is *so* important.

But what kills me is fronting something like that with a cheap mic. *There* is some real impact on sound. And since a good wired mic costs $100.00 or less I don't understand the idiocy that thinks you can destroy your vocals and "be good enough". Sure the music still sounds decent. Its just that your vocalist can't hear their voice because you have the level turned way down to avoid sibilance pops.

WRT going for sound, I don't go for sound. I stay away from a gig because I went there and the sound was bad. Just tried a gig that would be real nice for me to go to. I would be there every other week if it measured up, but no -- they want to use cheap wireless mics with no decent wired mic available. It just is no fun when you 1) can't hear yourself and 2) don't like what you hear when you can hear someone.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

I am all for a singer seeking out and finding a venue host and show they enjoy.
That's what it is all about. But your last statement is a little off in IMHO. Just because a KJ uses a $500 mixer compared to one who uses a $2500 mixer you think the KJ would be better ? ...... That's crazy thinking. - I've seen shows where the systems were TOP NOTCH and crazy expensive$$$$ and the KJ acted towards the singers like you should THANK HIM to allow you to sing . It works both ways. You can't tell a book by it's cover.

Granted there are LEVELS of equipment and there is NOT ONE KJ HERE that couldn't upgrade his system no matter how much they already have invested in the sound system. It's all about return on investment and having a balance of quality and cost.

At my gigs over the last few years I've always offered a wired mic option for those singers who prefered the sound. ShureSM58 / Shure PG58 and Sennheiser 815.
The wireless option was always on the "cheap" side to use your words. I sing on them myself and so has 9 out of 10 singers. I can easily put out out 3 QUALITY wired mics if I choose. It just doesn't make sense for me at my current gig.
The majority of singers at my latest and current gigs have been young fun going singers where having fun was #1 and as long as the sound is good everyone is happy and has fun. If I was in business to have the BEST SOUNDING KARAOKE SHOW IN THE AREA.. That I could do it's not that hard ... but wouldn't get me anymore gigs ( I only can work 1 night a week) and wouldn't get me anymore money ( The market dictates the prices not the level of equipment).

I am all for singers going where they are happiest ..but when a singer tells me 90% of the shows are BAD I start to question maybe the stanards set are TOO high or taking karaoke too seriously. BUt thats is just MY OPINION

In a lot of ways, PA gear is like a car.

After all a car is just transportation right? All you really NEED is a 73 Oldsmobile Omega. You can get one for $500 and it runs great! It gets you from point A to B. The heat and lights work. It even has a radio! What ROI!

But some people LIKE the fancier cars. They ENJOY the high end toys. The WANT the performance of top notch equipment.

I'm one of those guys that hauls lots of stuff in and hoists 60 pound speakers up on stands. I could probably knock 30 minutes off my setup/teardown time by scaling back. Would anyone notice? Maybe not...but I would!

That's the key --you need to do what satisfies you as the KJ and business owner, juggling costs and other variables against the quality of your show.

Rumbolt - some of the new powered speakers or amps out there weigh next to nothing - 30 lb powered speakers - 17lbs power amps etc. You can still get a KICK AZZ system that weighs next to nothing --you just have to pay for it

I'm with you Jam. My back and I love my pr15s, and though I usually like a component setup with most everything, over the past few years, I've gotten content just using my emx5016 whenever possible. If it's wedding, I add a crown, and a couple of 18" subs. I'll hook up one or two wired sm58s, and I'm not ashamed to use one or two uhf nadys along with them(the only problem I can detect with them, is their excessive handling noise). I save my wireless sm58 for weddings and special events. If I can, I possition my speakers behind the singers so they can hear the mix....if not, then I setup a monitor.
A KJ that is serious about singing, should mix a singer with the same effort he would want done for his or herself. Every see a KJ that has a ton of effects on his own mike, but gives very little to his singers(doesn't usually want to give that mic up either... )? Can't buy that sincerity in a system.
Can't buy a good ear for music which sure helps with good mixing ability.
Can't buy the good people that can make a venue a real pleasure to visit.
There are some things, you just can't buy for a good show....I can think of a few more, but I'll leave it with these few.........

I appreciate your point Jam, but then there's the counter-point of you have to spend money to make money. Sure can you get away with a half-assed rig and everyone still have fun? No doubt. However consider this analogy for a minute.

Say two pizza joints open up in the same small town. One goes out and buys a real pizza oven with pizza stones, hand makes each pizza to order using fresh ingredients. The other buys a couple of those home use pizza ovens (you know the little chrome jobs with only a timer dial on the front) and serves a variety of frozen pizzas that they cook in those cheapo ovens. The prices at both places are the same, which pizza joint are you going to order from?

The first joint is banking on the fact that they've invested a lot of money into commercial equipment and good ingredients to bring in customers who know they have the best pizza in town. The second has chosen to do the bare minimum needed in order to call themselves a pizza restaurant and are banking on people not caring enough about the taste of one pizza over the other in order to stay in business.

Personally, I do believe singers know and appreciate the difference between how two rigs sound. I believe this because I was one and I know many singers not involved in any form of music industry who also feel the same. That said, I also don't believe that the difference in response to one over the other is nearly as significant as it would be in my pizza example above, so we have more people in this industry that "get away" with using less, knowing less, etc. Plus, as you pointed out, there are many other variables involved (personality, song selection, etc). For me, the rig I use is an easy problem to address so I'm going to do so. I have enough work to do addressing the other aspects of my performance as a KJ, why should I go in knowing I already have a handicap in my rig.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

Singers notice the difference at my bar gig from when I use the house PA vs bring in my own, which I do not do very often. I'm not even talking about regular singers who are there all the time, either; I mean people I've never met before will compliment me on the rig, or how good they sound, or how nice the equipment looks. This rarely happens with the house PA.

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

Since this was primarily about equipment, i'll go along with that as well & have sang on some systems i'd consider dogs - piercing high end, boxy lows or no lows at all, no definition on vocals or just too hot, either too much or not enough effects. Yes this is alot to do with operator error - that aside, MOST of these types of systems i've experienced are either very underpowered for the speakers, too small of speakers for the room they are setup in or just in general crap quality gear. Even a proper powered amp to match the rating of a speaker can make a huge difference alone. When I see Yamaha S115V being run with 100 per channel BMB karaoke mixer amp - this is what i'm talking about, and I saw this type of setup about 2 months ago. The thing had to be turned up so high to get over the crowd level, that it was nothing but mids & highs and to the point of clipping and lots of feedback. Yes the place was packed, however, there was not really any 'good' singers, there were however alot of screamers or maybe up to ok singers.
Now on the otherside, I have seen top notch gear that didn't sound good either because of operator - however this is in the very low percentile. With all the talk of people wanting to downgrade their stuff to be smaller/lighter/compact, it's going to end up sounding like every other karaoke show IMO.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

The irony is, I went to a more compact setup by upgrading. Moving from the Mackie CFX12 to the Yamaha O1V was the best money I've ever spent. The rig got smaller, lighter and easier to setup AND the quality of the audio product improved greatly.

And this last point you made Lon is perfect. I agree with you, why would I want to sound like every other Karaoke host out there when I have the ability to be so much better.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke