Karaoke Forums

Freedom of speech protects your right to sing a ballad in a karaoke bar.

Let us not confuse the freedom of speech that allows us to share our thoughts with anyone without fear of recriminations, with a "free for all" attitude that suggests you can use whatever expressive terms you like in public.

While you use to be able to, you can't say the "N" word anymore. Why not? It offends some people; that's why not!

You've never been "allowed" to say anything about someone's mother. Why not? It offends their children!

Yet is was suggested that we should leave it up to singers, some of whom are drunk, to decide whether or not their non-artistic, gratuitous use of profanities or vulgarities or expressive phrases is acceptable to the listening public?

I say simply, if material that I find to be somewhat okay is banned by the management of a lounge filled with adults on the Vegas strip, then I don't know what venue it would be where I should permit the Rodeo Song, or F'''ng Her Gently and the like.

And while previously I would have found it hard to justify why someone should not be able to sing the Pussycat Song, now I can state that if it doesn't play in a Vegas lounge, on the Vegas strip, full of adults, it won't work "here", fer shur!

Lastly, and again, we each need the right to express our thoughts and to let our expectations be known to those in power, without the fear of reprisals for speaking our minds.

On the other hand, how is your life improved upon by you using a "free for all" vocabulary full of expressive expletives? And how as a singer is your freedom of speech, YOUR REAL FREEDOM OF SPEECH, infringed upon if you are barred from using such words? For centuries, lyricist made their thoughts known without being explicit. In fact, for me, much of the beauty of the DooWop musics is what it said "while saying nothing at all"!!! I got it each and every time

Wellll....

Several years ago, I sang "The Pussycat Song" on the Vegas Strip. I sang it at TJ and his All-Stars Impersonations/Karaoke show (located in the Piano Bar at the front of Harrah's Casino). TJ had never heard that song before and he loved it. The Audience loved it. When I showed up a few days later, he asked me to sing it again.

On the other side of the coin, I sang it at the Ellis Island Casino (behind Bally's), and the Audience loved it. The Waitstaff even came up to me (laughing), and thanked me for singing something different there. The KJ didn't like the song. When I went up to give him my next song, he made a snide comment, saying, "I hope you're not going to sing another song like that last one.".

When I was a young boy, my father was a big fan of the comedian Buddy Hackett. He had his records; he repeated his bits and turned me into a big fan as well. When I was a young man, in my twenties, I attended a Buddy Hackett show with my wife and paid extra to sit within a few rows of the big star.

Not long into the show, Mr Hackett leered at my beautiful wife and asked if she enjoyed having his face (ON THE PLAYBILL SHE WAS HOLDING UPSIDE DOWN) in her lap. Many in the audience roared. My wife turned red and wanted to leave. I didn't blame her and we did. Which made a pretty powerful statement as everyone saw us get up and walk out!

While we knew his reputation for putting on a "filthy" show with profanities, and we were willing to deal with that, we didn't expect him to be vulgar on a personal level towards anyone! Yes, I can see that what he said to my wife would be humorous to most others, but it wasn't to us because it was a personal offense to her. And I have never forgotten the incident!

And, there are those who don't go out for a night of entertainment expecting to hear lyrics like some songs deliver, nowadays! Some aren't even aware that such lyrics commonly exist these days in music! Hell, while its been around for a awhile, I just realized last week that "Toes" has the word "(@$%&#!)" in the radio version. When did that word start making it to the airwaves?

So, Cueball, while you found a KJ in Vegas that considered the "Pussycat Song" to be benign, as I do, you found another who wasn't pleased with your selection. And as you may recall, on this forum the cry of those who are for the "free for all" attitude is that "we're all adults".

Yes we are all adults. And even some adults in Vegas, both ON and OFF the strip take exception even to the "Pussycat Song".

So????? Soooo.... the "we are all adults" argument has been shown not to be the correct criteria for determining what is acceptable at a karaoke show! And while those who have a need to justify bad behavior point out that there are people in the audience who are NOT offended why not simply talk about being CONSIDERATE of those who might be offended! Or put another way, how is the value of any show amplified by "F-bombs", particularly if it keeps customers away?

I think smoking in public and on-stage profanity are a good comparison. Would you smoke in a place that has people in close proximity? Even tho it might be legal, it's very inconsiderate. Just like swearing like a sailor on stage, (even if it IS part of the lyrics) might be inconsiderate. Just because we are all "adults", doesn't give us license to to behave like children. Have a little common sense when you are performing on stage. View the audience, and make a decision on whether or not there are people in the crowd who might be offended and try a different song instead of one laced with f-bombs and other colorful words. Use your talents to showcase yourself instead of being remembered as that guy/gal who sang that filthy/dirty song.

Yes, sometimes the audience as a whole is ready for that type of song and you can get a good reaction from them, but be considerate of them too.

As a lyricist, sometimes the most economical expression can evoke the more emotional response.

Kinda like me stating: "I think tovmod and others have been overly influenced by the overly puritanical, conservative, and anal-retentive mores of fundamental religious sects."

As opposed to: "Y'all are just a buncha &%$!headed tight (@$%&#!) prudes."

When my goal is to jerk your chain and provoke an emotional, angered response and make you look like a fool.

Once you start censoring language, it's a small step to censoring ideas.

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Dave's not here.

Here's the deal ....there is no democracy in karaoke

The KJ is the Supreme Ruler and El Presidente of what can and does get sung.
Simple!!! There is no FREEDOM OF SPEECH at a karaoke show --you sing the songs as listed in the book and the words as displayed on the monitor or the KJ at his will
can YANK you off the stage or shut off your microphone.

Now if you find it in the book ---I would think it is fair game to sing
(hint: KJ's if you don't want certain songs sung --but them in a seperate book and display only when appropriate).

Of course --venue rules and management should take priority and then its the KJ's decision if he wants to host under those rules.

freedom of speech ......PLLLLLEEEASE

OMG now we're on to Freedom of Speech? Well here's a simple concept that we Americans, who take for granted and abuse this freedom, should familiarize ourselves with. Freedom of speech as well as your other rights granted to you buy the Bill of Rights, cease to exist when your use of those rights infringes on the rights of others. Furthermore, there is no guarantee in the Bill of Rights that when you exercise your freedoms, others will not judge you based on what you have said. This is why the whole Dixie Chicks thing pissed me off. They foolishly chose to express that they have a starkly opposite viewpoint to that of their fans. And when the fans reacted and said we don't like it, they complained about freedom of speech. They had their freedom and used it, so did their fans (by not listening to them anymore).

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

Decent people consider the effect of what they say will have on others

Decent people consider the circumstances and their surroundings to determine what is appropriate

Decent people have censored themselves for years, USUALLY limiting their use of vulgarities and profanities, if nothing else, to same sex groups that gathered away from the "general public".

Now there are people who sit in a restaurant or similar venue, screaming "F-bombs" into their cell phones, as a worse case example, while my wife and I are within earshot, trying to enjoy one another, our meal, the ambiance and not have our space violated by some believer that free-speech is something that goes unbridled by self-discipline and decency!

So what happened to the decent people? What happened to considerate people? What happened to self-restraint?

Great. You're a lyricist.

Now how about answering the question? And in considering your answer also consider that when you go to a karaoke show that has a legal library you're not always going to find the songs you prefer to sing. And not every host will accommodate you by playing any discs that you tote along with you.

So, from the comments made by a lyricist and others, I guess the KJ at such a show is engaging in censorship and is also infringing upon the singer's freedom of speech? Seems like a logical conclusion to me.

This is a crazy discussion -- The KJ decides what songs he wants to offer at his shows?? --Thats not censorship ...... If he decides not to play customer discs and only offers COUNTRY titles is he censoring ??????? This is insane to think that because a KJ decides not to play or allow certain songs at his show that it's censorship

Exactly. There's only freedom of choice.

What the song lyrics are isn't up to the KJ - it's the writer's choice.

What gets sung isn't up to the KJ - it's the singers choice.

What songs are allowed to be sung at a venue isn't up to the KJ - it's the choice of venue's management.

What songs are available in his songbook is the KJ's choice, and he's perfectly within his rights to limit that selection in accordance with his own tenets, no matter how wrong they may be.

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Dave's not here.

I can live with that......

I prefer to think that I have enough "power" as the host to suggest, based on who might be in the audience that night, that the singer change their song - either to one that is tamer, or one that is more on the rough side. I don't like to be surprised EVER when I'm at the board, and based on a cusory glance around the same, if I identify someone who may be negatively impacted by a song, I might say, "Hey, let's change it. Save that one for a more appreciative crowd." Thankfully the people who frequent my show tend to be maybe a little more mature when it comes to social etiquette, which by the way I believe has gone by the wayside. I don't enjoy gratuitous cursing, though I enjoy a suggestive song the first 20 times it is sung (and they're ALL way past that number by now). But I may not feel that way if my mother was sitting beside me. Social etiquette has nothing to do with freedom of speech, by the way.

I did. With examples. You either didn't understand it, or ignored it because you didn't like it.

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Dave's not here.

A-Yup!

That's why it's a fun one!

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Dave's not here.

What's decency got to do with freedom of speech? That's a way of thinking. Do you disapprove of freedom of thought too?

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Dave's not here.

[quote]Freedom of speech doesn't just protect speech you approve of. It also protects speech you may find absolutely repulsive.

it protects those who spew "profanities and vulgarities"

It protects those who advocate racism, sexism and religious intolerance.

It protects those who publicly call for the peaceful overthrow of the government.

It protects pornography.

It even protects the unthinkable (and unthinking) hypocrisy so blindingly illuminated by the two quotes from you in this post.

Now stop straddling the fence and think about what you really believe. When it comes to freedom it's all or nothing.[/quote]

I guess this is why a minor few have the right to tell the rest of us we can't have a Christmas Tree in front of the Local Courthouse!

Let's get back on point people. This isn't government bashing we're speaking of. It's your thoughts on whether to allow those types of songs at our karaoke shows (or to go to ones that allow it)

I personally hate it when someone gets up and sings TOES in an Eagles club. I'mnot a prude. My band used to do the rodeo song (not in an Eagles Club). I been to shows where someone would request "Puff The Magic Dragon" and then change the words when they sang. You can't always control it.

I would say that it's between you, your morality, and the venue owner on what works. What type of show are you promoting?

My head is spinning from all this. What's the verdict?

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KingBing Entertainment C'mon Up! I have a song for you!!! [font=MS Sans Serif][/font]

The verdict is simple.

I buy my tracks and I chose which ones to get. I also get to chose which ones to ban and when to ban them, even if the management doesn't have a preference.

And if it ever comes down to anything different:
- I'll stop buying or at least stop ripping such tracks
- I still control what goes into my song catalog. So if a few A..H..'s want to argue with me about singing a track that is in the catalog at a time or place where I feel it is inappropriate, it won't be in my catalog the following day!