Karaoke Forums

////////////////////////

touche!

_________________
KingBing Entertainment C'mon Up! I have a song for you!!! [font=MS Sans Serif][/font]

hmmmmm....I must be better than he average bear, getting $200-$250



And that is me, except using all Behringer equipment except for Shure wired mics for singing, and a dual chepo/off brand wireless for announcing



And above is what you need to do PERIOD. IF you can do it buy spending 10K on a sound system, and have the money to do it, by all means do it. But if you are making $150/nite one nit a week, it makes no sense to spend big$$$$ on a system unless you don't care that you are working for 2 years just to buy expensive equipment.

And to add one more point, you only have to be one notch above your best competitor.

I'm sorry, I find the pizza analogy a bit complicated, and hard to follow....could you break it down to something a might simpler......say maybe a taco, burger, or a chicken nugget.... .....my gosh, all this random rambling is making me hungry...

Ditto. And to worsen it for me is, pizza isn't on my diet anymore. And I love pizza.

As a singer though, the system doesn't have to be out of this world. I totally agree with tovmod. We've never based our decision on where to go on equipment. If it sounds just ok, or great. The first thing we base as to where were going is the atmosphere of your gig. I mean if your singing once an hour, you want the other 56 minutes to be fun while you wait. The place has to be entertaining besides the singers. And I'm not saying the singers have to be great.
The next thing we base it on is the KJ themselves. If they make the show fun and have somewhat of a clue and tweaking the singer in. You KJ's are the second biggest reason for us showing up. You can have your 200,000 songs and best equipment money can buy, but if you're an arrogant A$$, that doesn't make it enjoyable to attend your gigs. Based on this site and reading your inputs, like most, I'd like to visit Lonman's show (no chance location wise ) I'd also like to check out letirip's show. This does show possibilities one day with me being in the Chicagoland area. And I've contemplated it often. But this leads to my third criteria.
Location, location, location. I'm fortunate to have alot of venues available to me. We try and stay within the 15 minute marker. Not that we go get wasted when were there. It's just a smarter thing to do.

Tony - there are a few members here I do not consider the average karaoke singer.
You come from a music/soundman background and the 1st think you probably do when you walk into a karaoke show is gauge the equipment being used. NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. ----using your CRAZY pizza anology - 2 pizza places each selling pizzas for the same price ( cause that's all the market will bear) - One guy uses "inexpensive ingredients" the other expensive imported ones. Both sell the same amount of pizzas and take in the same amount of GROSS REVENUE. ---sure some customers won't buy the pizzas made with cheap ingredients but he sells out every day anyway. All his customers are happy and so are the customers of the guy who uses expensive imported ingredients. ---- Why do some people want to sit and complain about the one pizza when they can go next door and get what they want?

Average Joe--perfect name :

There are levels of acceptable good sound at karaoke shows. Believe it or not some KJ's get away with acceptable sound by using NADY WIRELESS MICS and other budget brand components. GRANTED there are some BAD SOUNDING shows out there but I would bet that has to do more with HUMAN error than the brand of their speakers amps and microphones.

There are of course limits to a budget sound system. Durability --How long will it last ?- Area of coverage- Can it satisfy 500 people outisde ??. But I agree that the times I've NOT ENJOYED myself at a karaoke show had more to do with the KJ and fairness of rotation than the sound. As a singer, fellow KJ and musician I DO NOTICE a good system from a budget priced one but if mixed correctly --not enough to make me complain or leave. -- for me its about finding the balance between expense and profit. After all it's a business ... a people business YES ...but it's all about the money. (thats the truth )

I know jam, I'm sure you guys enjoy doing it, but cash is king and guys are doing it for a reason, ka-ching

And I'd expect a KJ like yourself to notice other places systems. I don't have the best hearing so that's a reason it doesn't matter to me so much. Otherwise I'd give KJing a shot, but it wouldn't be fair to the singer. I just don't hear the little things that you guys do to tweak stuff in.

As to my perfect name, not sure on your statement there but it refers to me being the type of person to go with the flow. No need to be noticed, wether it be good or bad. To be part of the atmosphere. So with that being said, Thanks.

I'm also in agreeance with you on bad shows being human error rather than equipment.

jamkaraoke @ Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:14 am wrote:

TTowntenor @ Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:15 pm wrote:

Just because a KJ uses a $500 mixer compared to one who uses a $2500 mixer you think the KJ would be better ? ...... .

I wonder what a $100 guitar would sound like if Eric Clapton stopped by and started stumming. A good KJ with a less than great sound system can run sound better than a novice with a $50,000 set-up. It's all whether you know enough to get the most out of the system you have. If you've done all you can with it and it's still not enough - either learn more or buy better.

Well actually not exactly. Thinking back on the last couple "first impressions" I've made of KJ's the first thing I notice and judge is how does it sound. Almost always I'm not really happy with that aspect. Next I look at the overall appearance, crappy looking rigs turn me off big time. Then I look at what is he/she using for a rig. So yes it is right up there and probably more important to me than anyone else.

However, while I do have a music background, many folks that I see at shows do not and as I mentioned previously, they all can tell the difference between good and poor sounding shows. They know from Karaoke experience (not me telling them) what brands are cheapo brands and what brands are not. They do care about all these things. Granted they (as well as I) are quite forgiving of cheap equipment if it sounds good. You've made the point and I happen to agree, that simply having higher end equipment isn't going to make a rig sound better. I'm going to be a little pompous here but I guarantee you I could get a better mix out of a Nady/Peavey based rig than most of the KJ's around here could get out of my rig. A KJ who knows what he/she is doing can make a cheap rig sound better than any clueless KJ with
$10,000 worth of equipment.



Please note that I've never begrudged anyone for using equipment I don't like. We all make compromises and do what we think is best for our business. I don't for a minute think I've got the highest quality rig of the KJ's on the board, not even close. For instance, as much as I love my Mackie S215's and they have performed well, there are definitely other cabinets I'd like to run with. I'd love to have all ULX or higher wireless mics but I'm not willing to put a $450 transmitter in the hands of a drunk.

Where I have a problem with people that have cheap equipment is when they sit on this board and try to say their cheap brands sound just as good as quality brands. It just isn't true. A $50 Nady wireless does not sound anywhere near as good as even the lowest end Shure or Senheiser wireless. That's just a fact and no amount of EQ, compression or gain manipulation is going to change that. A Peavy speaker with a lightweight plastic cabinet will never sound anywhere near as good as a 2-way setup with wood cabinets and better performing drivers. It is an audible difference that doesn't take a sound engineer to hear. The advantage I have coming from the background I do, is that I can identify WHY it sounds the way it does and what is different.

So again, do I begrudge you for using your Nady's and Peaveys? No. You've made that choice as you've detailed in this thread based on your business goals and current revenue stream. I only have a problem with you attempting to justify your equipment as performing just as well as the higher quality components in use by others, it just isn't true and both your singers and peers know it.

_________________
DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

Who said anything about a kj needing a $2500 mixer? Never ONCE was that mentioned. A $500 mixer is probably more than many kj's would want to spend on their whole system...sadly. A Yamaha MG124CX is a great mixer for a couple hundred bucks. What I was getting at is most "good kj's" i've experience have actually sunk some money into their systems and know how to tune it in to make each singer sound very good. Most of the "crappy" kj's I know have basic box type mixer/amp combo & a couple cheap speakers & maybe some wireless Nady mics that sound like crap to begin with. Someone with any kind of ear can tell the difference between this and a kj that has decent equipment & can adjust it properly. So I will stand by my assessment of which I have experienced over (well almost 20 years) of singing, the majority of the kj's that use cheap equipment also have a cheapened sound quality and those who spend more on more quality equipment "TEND" to have a better sound overall. Yes this can be reversed due to the kj's actual sound mixing skills...but more often than not, I have found it's not the case. Using that pizza analogy above, I would be one that would seek out a better tasting pizza.

_________________
[shadow=deepskyblue]I'm impressed, I've never met such a small mind inside such a big head before.[/shadow]

I am not doubting one second that you get no complaints & nothing but compliments, I too compliment a good system when I hear something really good...which isn't often, but it does happen. But I rarely complain about a system that is garbage, I just don't return to the venue, uynless there were other circumstances that I needed to be there. I'd compliment a couple B212's as well if all I was used to was a pair of home stereo speakers & home receiver. Being these are sometimes what I often hear at clubs, I would just opt not to return in most cases as they don't put out the sound in my opinion.


Well this SHOULD be a gimme, but far too few hosts actually follow this, and sadly most of these have cheap equipment.


It's funny that the kj's that talk about the sound admit that "it doesn't sound as good as the better equipment, or it's good enough for karaoke".

_________________
[shadow=deepskyblue]I'm impressed, I've never met such a small mind inside such a big head before.[/shadow]

Yep a bunch of screaming drunks yelling profanity into the mic at the top of their lungs over cranked up cheap amps & distorted speakers...FUN!!!! Experience this far too often. But hey, they are spending money on beer (more often than not because it is cheap as well) & if that is the extent of the clientelle you wish to attract, then more power to you.


Ah you take no better care of your singers with better equipment? Alrighty then!


I love when people compare karaoke to other things that aren't any comparison.


Hosts that consider themselves "entertainers" are also shows that I avoid as well. Too many hosts try to be the funny man or sing when they feel threatened by a good singer, or in every rotation or join in to "harmonize" with a singer or put on dance music when it is supposed to be a "karaoke" show. I feel the "better" hosts are those that focus on their singers & get them up in a timely manner, a host is not the entertainment, the singers are!

Again, in my experience, 9 out of 10 shows, crappy equipment means crappy sound, there is always that 1% that the host actually knows how to tweak what they have to work with, and yes I admit I have seen some good equipment sound like crap because of hosts that have no clue to begin with...but this is not common.

Well a good host should be able to dial in their singer within a couple seconds of hearing them, have the next song ready or cued up & still have time to mingle. Guess i'm glad your neck of the wood isn't what karaoke is all about & there are choices that someone can go and experience good sound as well as a good show.


This has nothing to do with anything, horny young guys drooling over a hot chick? They aren't there for karaoke! They are there for the hostess period, totally different scenerio...she could be hosting an umbrella party & probably get the same guys following. This has no bearing on the discussion at hand.


No the equipment isn't my first and foremost decision on a show, I have no real musical background to speak of, but know good sound & learned over the years via forums like these what good equipment is. Yes I will say again, a crappy system can be made to sound tolerable with a host that knows what they are doing, however once again, this is not the norm. And if I sound like crap while singing on one of these systems, that is not fun as a singer.


Quality of tracks are a completely different subject, however those who wish to spend money on crappy equipment, tend to also spend money on crappy tracks as well!

_________________
[shadow=deepskyblue]I'm impressed, I've never met such a small mind inside such a big head before.[/shadow]

TTT said: Hosts that consider themselves "entertainers" are also shows that I avoid as well. Too many hosts try to be the funny man or sing when they feel threatened by a good singer, or in every rotation or join in to "harmonize" with a singer or put on dance music when it is supposed to be a "karaoke" show. I feel the "better" hosts are those that focus on their singers & get them up in a timely manner, a host is not the entertainment, the singers are!

I am an entertainer - or should I say, in my role as a host I feel it is within the scope of the job to meet and greet, make new singers feel welcome, acknowledge the regulars, etc., etc. Interesting that I read your comment this morning TTT, as what I'm including here definitely pertains to your assessment of what an entertainer might be.

Recently some of my new crowd has included an older couple - they are probably in their '70s. The first time they appeared at my show I introduced myself, saw that they carried their own discs and had a brief chat about the kind of music they enjoy, told them that yes, I could play their music for them but that they'd have to bring it every time because although I am computer based, I can't "copy" their music to my computer. They ONLY sing their own music but I do have some of the same music on my system. (I know, different subject but important to the content of this thread).

Anyway, the thing they made a point of telling me last night (they attended my show at another venue) was how important it was for them that I reached out to them. They told me that in the first place they saw me, the original host just sat at his computer, never "worked" the crowd, never handed out books or slips or even told people where they might find that stuff. He would start the show by singing a song and then JUST SIT THERE.

Now I know that example is extreme but I feel that being an entertainer of sorts is required - not to steal the show, not to be the focus of the show, but yes, to sing when people ask because a song may have special significance for them and no one else they know could sing it for them; I do also harmonize with the more talented singers but only if they ask. (Most beginning singers get confused by harmony.) To create levity there is nothing wrong with a little comedy - in fact, last night a singer told me a joke ... it was hilarious ... and when he came up to sing I asked him to tell the joke first.

But as you said, I agree - it is my job to get those singers up there, tune them in, and make sure they have a top notch experience. I do that by providing really great sound and a great selection of music. I will suggest that the level of "entertaining" I do is very much based on the venue. At my fraternal organization show, I am much more of an entertainer - they expect that and what's more, they definitely appreciate it.

Anyway, there's my random rambling for the day. Happy Friday everyone. Hope you all have great shows tonight. And regards from the sunny West Coast.

Karen, the way you greet the new customers, is the way it is for us at a place we like hitting. The KJ didn't reconize us and she came over said hello and told us how she runs the show. So like that impression you left on that older couple is the impression we got here. All KJs should be greetful like that. You only get one chance they say for a first impression. Nice job.

I think when a KJ notices a "newcomer" and take the time to welcome them and talk to them it goes a long way. I think that type of hosting is the key to success.

We'ev discussed in length of the fine line between HOSTING and trying to steal the show or make it all about the HOST rather than the singers.

I look at our role as not one of "entertainer" but "facilitator". We are not there to put on a performance. The KJ can sing songs, etc but should not feel like people have come to see him/her perform. Karen what you described is consistent with what I feel we should be doing and that is facilitating a good time. Greet people, be a good host, etc. Entertainers are the center of attention, the KJ should be anything but the center of attention. People come to see their friends and others sing on stage, not listen to the KJ sing or ramble off joke after joke. Sure a song here or there or a quick witty remark is good stuff, but again don't make the show about you and I think you're fine.

_________________
DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

Thanks, I feel better now.

(Been doing this since mid '90s and apparently know what I'm doing but appreciate your confidence in me.)

wow I guess i should really be glad that my shows are where they are the people come to sing and have a good time doing it they don't really care that my equipment is a powered mixer with peavey pr 15s they all tell me how good they sound
interesting side note one of the bars I play at has a decent house system with wired sm58 mics guess what they would rather use my CHEAP wireless mics why because they can move around and have fun
the point I am trying to make is that places vary. If I had top dollar equipment I don't think I would get any more people or more jobs (and I know the money would not be any better ) than I do now in this area people do karaoke for fun some don't sing until after they have had a few and some don't drink at all but they all have fun

HEY!!! didn't I say that

what can I say jam great minds as well as great kjs think alike