Karaoke Forums

Just curious how many here have participated in a karaoke contest either as a contestant, judge or promoter.

If you were a contestant, were you just in a qualifying round? Did you make it on to the semi-finals or finals?

What's your take on how best to make judging fair? I'm not sure if it's sour grapes, but many contest participants I've heard from tell me they think most karaoke contests are "fixed" and favor "regulars" or friends of the venue/promoter.

_________________
[font=Lucida Console]DangerousKaraoke.com[/font]
[font=Lucida Console]"Sing for the day, sing for the moment, sing for the time of your life!"[/font]

Dan, I have been involved with a few contests, both as organizer and as contestant and as well as viewer too. And I have to say that "yes", I have seen that a contest has been "fixed". The one that I was a contest in, I should NOT have actually been there, I didn't belong. Period. But it became a "popularity" vote instead of a real contest. The winner was pre-chosen by the owner and everyone knew it. I have also seen contests that were ran as fairly as possible, given the rules, and the results also appeared to be "fixed", even tho it wasn't so. I have to say this "I hate contests". With that said, I see the benefits to the venue for them, that is why I am doing one now, even tho i didn't like it. I am hoping all turns out well.

I'm in the middle of a karaoke contest right where the corporate office setup the criteria. Its too much of a popularity contest and the sure way to win is to bring lots of friends. I must admit sales are up but I hate the format because the contest comes across as "fixed". I think the best performance should win.

I know of one promoter in my city who does bikini contests and has a really bad rep for having his contests "fixed". Hes been at it 20+ years and is able to line up some pretty big time sponsors. I think those sponsors often have to much influence.

Mojo

_________________
"It looks just like a Telefunken U47 !"

You have to ask yourself why most venues host CONTESTS. The answer is to increase business during the contest run and possibly bring in singers that will RETURN after the contest as regulars. The problem with contests is you do get increase business from singers who will never ever return once the contest is over --so many contests FAVOR the local regulars with a lopsided scoring system.

It's very seldom that the BEST SINGER/Entertainer ever wins one of these karaoke contests run by bars etc. I have seen contests run by TOWNS or CLUBS who once the contest is over ---won't do karaoke and they are just looking for the best TALENT.

Either way ---someone gets bent out of shape if they don't win and CRY FIX FIX FIX

Hey, even the biggest contest in our country smacked of "fixed" last year - as you recall, it seemed as though Adam Lambert was the hands-down winner. Everybody looked for a dozen reasons that the other guy won when talent-wise it was obvious who stood out. So, if one of the most sponsored contests in the country still has the appearance of being fixed, how do the rest get away unscathed?

I've organized many contests, have judged a few, and have participated as a contestant years ago. I don't compete now because I don't think it would be good for my own business.

Contests bring out the contest ho's - that's what those people are referred to in our area. They come for the contest and never come back --- especially if there is a dollar prize involved.

Yes, momentary swell in attendance .. but unless the place is amazing and just hasn't been discovered, most won't return. Most people have their own home pubs/taverns/bars and the only time they really venture out is to compete in contests (big fish in the little pond syndrome).

I *know* that some karaoke contests are fixed. I saw the payoff.

_________________
[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

I've seen one where I know there was a "fix" going on. Also one where being a "regular" got you 5 bonus points. I've heard a judge say I gave them a low score because I didn't know the song (which we did and they did a decent job). In my area, whenever there's a contest, this one guy is always involved and he's not honest at all, and we know there's a "fix" going on if he's involved. I avoid contests like the plague. I'll go and support friends, but I won't join. We had one where it was $20 entry fee and people asked me to join and even offered to pay it for me (the cheap A$$ that I am ), and no way. There just not legit, and that takes the fun out of karaoke.
With all that being said, the only one I've seen that was honest was thru the game SingStar. The game gives points and that's clear cut. But it more or less leaves you KJ's out.

I have ran many contests, I can assure you none of them were 'fixed', however the contestants that do not win seem to be the ones that always cry foul - even though they may not have been as good or brought in the most people so their applause was better than everyone else. These are the true prima donnas and think they are MUCH better than they really are and tell me about the contests they always win - when I query where, it's usually in dive bars that the singing clientelle isn't great to begin with, so yes you are much better than them singers to win their contests.
When the first Evergreen Idol contest was around here, we got involved in that. The prize was $2000 & be the opening act for Diamond Rio at one of the state fairs. We ran 10 weeks of qualifying, 3 weeks of semi-qualifying & a in house finals night to determine who would go on to state finals. Each night had judges that were some way musically knowledgeable. With the finals having judges that were from local radio stations, vocal instructors, recording engineers, other pro (local) singers/musicians (karaoke friendly). This was a statewide contest mind you, the person who won our finals, went to the state finals & won the entire thing. They (the contest promoters) were looking for an entertainer - singer, presence, dress. So a good singer that didn't move around was not going to cut it, an ok singer that had great presence wasn't going to cut it. Someone who was not dressed up according to what was outlined in the contest policies was not going to cut it. So these people that may have been good in certain areas, may have failed in other criterias. The one we sent had all 3. So the ones that didn't win because they didn't meet all 3 criteria's were the ones that complained - even though this girl clearly should have went.

I did not want any contest I was associated with to be considered rigged, I worked with a company in around 90 or so (just a roadie) before I started mine that actually did. Story - the ran qualifiers, semi finals & finals. The host allowed one person on a finals night to enter - the guy even came in halfway through the thing. Never pre qualified & guess who won? The judges couldn't believe it, the judges sheets were not shows - even though they had clearly told everyone that inquired that that was not who they picked. It was a mess. I vowed never to be associated in any kind of contest that wasn't as fair as could be, provide all judges sheets at the end of the announcement, picking judges with musical knowledge of some sort, etc...But even doing this, SOMEONE will still cry foul because they thought they were better than they really are.

I even tried creating a sort of handicap for contestants (just for the weekly contests for $30). In which like in say darts, the better you are, you have to give up so many points. So if you won like 3 contests, you would automatically lose something like 3 points per win toward the next contest, sort of leveling the playing field a bit where a not so good performer might have a little extra chance to be a winner on occasion. It was an idea, I never really finished it as we stopped doing our weekly contests a couple years back. But if anyone else would like to continue, it was sort of like a dart handicap, or a bowling handicap where you have to give points to the other team you are playing, except in this case, instead of giving points, they are just deducted from your final score.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

....could explain why I never win......

The contest that I am involved in at the moment uses a point system that rewards for 1)performance 2)stage presence & 3)appearance. NOWHERE is considered the reactions of the audience. I believe this is the only fair way of judging, keeping the audience out of the decisions.

Not to say that the judging can always be accurate tho. Singing and judging are all subjective to the likes and personal preferences of the judges themselves. Let's say that the judge prefers country music and the contestant sings broadway songs, the judge will less likely give a higher score than for the person who actually sang country songs. And it works in ALL directions.

The singer themself might think they are better than the other person and cry foul, even tho to the judge, the "other" person might not actually be better, it's all a perception and personal preference thing. At the end of the contest you have one happy person and dozens of people who think it was rigged, even tho it might not have been fixed at all, it's all in the point of views. That is why I hate contests, even tho I do see how they would help the venues get extra sales and possibly find some new regulars out of the deal.

I am running a contest now on a regular basis, 3 times a year. I was extremely leery when I was approached for it. I have had bad experiences with them before. Run poorly, poor format, bad judging. I watched a contestant pay off a judge and win the contest. (No, I have never felt that I should have won a contest. I am not delusional.)

So I set up the criteria in a simplified form of the one developed in our thread here. I think Paula (oneofakind864) was the major source of that. I used three judges I knew to be impartial, and who also didn't know any of the contestants.

The result was a huge success, such that it became a regular feature. Everyone agreed that the judges did a great job, and most of the people said they would have picked the same three that won 1st-2nd-3rd.

The keys to it were:

1. Decent practice, sound, and equipment setup, offering to answer any contestant questions.
2. Predetermined format.
3. Predetermined judging criteria.
4. Judges with some amount of musical knowledge (karaoke or band).
5. Clear explanations of all the above.

I was surprised at the success, to say the least. I thought it would be like every other contest I have seen, a mockery. But it was not.

_________________
[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

I agree i've never used audience response as a main judging criteria. Often times this does nothing more than have someone with 20 friends but not a great singer applaud louder for them only and not so much that great singer who only came with a couple people.

This is true as well, judging isn't always a science either - look at the American Idol judges. Sometimes they can't agree on kaka.


Not all people walk with a sour taste in their mouth, some are just fine & content to be in the finals on a night that a more attentive audience is there. Contests can work if done properly, and 9 out of 10 times, the complainers are usually the 'pro contest hoppers' that just run from contest to contest only. Also the one that comes in dead last sometimes has something to say only because they didn't want to come in last.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I was entered in a contest as I walked in the door of a venue, just because the KJ wanted me in it. He wasn't involved in the judging. I know the judges were fair because everyone in the Top 3 came in just as I thought they should based on their performances. I came in 4th.....

The venue's 1st place winner also won the finals!~! w00t!~!

Fixed contests, eh? Long before I started my business, two friends and I entered a local Karaoke contest. 10 weeks of semi's, then an additional semi round the night of the finals.

There was one girl who hosted all ten semi nights. On the night of the finals, there was a different host. Why? Because the previous host had entered the contest.

Care to guess who won? And with Karaoke 101 songs too (Mustang Sally & Piece of my heart).

Personally I hate contests. No matter what you do, someone is going to THINK it's fixed, even if it isn't. Plus with all the ego's involved, you make one person happy and p1ss off all the rest because none will agree with the judges.

That's another thing, once a contest starts, if you aren't there to sign up before it starts, you wait until the next one - if this happens to be the last qualifier, then you are out of luck - period.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I was in a contest twice, didn't practice, had no stage presence...and deserved to lose (sang Say It Isn't So by Hall and Oates and Crocodile Rock by Elton John). However, the person I thought should have won, a guy who sang Flowers on the Wall by the Statler Brothers, had great stage presence, moved around the stage, etc., lost out to a lady who sang Lady Marmalade. So this got me wondering if some songs are contest winners, even if not performed the best.

So...is Flowers on the Wall contest material. Would you sing it? Do a certain set of songs always end up being contest winners? I ask!

Yes, song selection is pretty dang important. If the contestant chooses a song that is not widely known, even if they do a great job with it, is likely to score lower than a song that is popular or well liked. With that said, a strong performance on a song that isn't necessary a "crowd pleaser", but is a known song, just might be a winner compared to a "crowd pleaser" that isn't perfomed quite so well. It's all in the selection for the contestants style and voice type. NEVER go out of your comfort zone while doing a contest, it will bite you in the backside sometimes.

All of which is why we never ever do contests.

_________________
You can be strange but not a stranger

Song selection is very important. Flowers On The Wall I would not consider contest material. Unless the average age group is in their 50's, this song will not win with most contestants. Lady Marmalade is a more interactive and upeat number, more likely to get peoples feet moving from all ages. Ballads can go either way.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I wouldnt say that they are "Fixed" as such, like a horse race or boxing match. But more like they degenerate into popularity contests with more often than not the cute blond with LOTS OF LOUD CHEERING FRIENDS being the winner.

The other option is the precensce of RINGERS----actual PROFESSIONAL SINGERS/ENTERTAINERS who are competing strictly for the money, against which an actual karaoke person stands absolutely no chance.

_________________
"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT