Karaoke Forums

Just received a call from an old regular singer who used to visit my shows.
This guy is the pro karaoke singer. Frequents 3-5 shows per week EVERY WEEK.
Haven't seen him since I stopped my outside gig last summer.

Anyway calls to tell me about a Saturday Night gig that he goes to. The current KJ is KNOWN to sing too much themselves. I mean blatantly sings while SINGERS have been waiting. Typical KJ cardinal sin. Other than singing too much and playing some favorites - great selection and decent sound. This guy has talked to the owner about this KJ singing too much and according to him the owner will not stand for it. The singer has given my name to the owner with a high reccomendation.
If the owner decides to REPLACE this current KJ.

Current KJ is a friend of mine ....................
Regular singer is a P.I.T.A who happens to be correct about his observations about current KJ. But is looking out for HIMSELF with recommending ME as he knows I run a fair rotation and take care of him.

Now you know the scoop ...WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF OFFERED THE GIG?

If the owner decides to contact you, It must be that he is unhappy with the service that your friend is providing. I see no reason to turn down the gig unless it is lower than the rate you would normally get.

It's not like you approached him first.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Since the kj is your FRIEND, I would kinda ask him how his show is going, then ask what his stance is on singing while having singers wait. Everything would depend on his answer. I would ask if someone were complaining about him singing, would he change? If he said he didn't care, I would let him know that I had heard a (rumor), that someone (might have) complained to the owner. I PERSONALLY would not be too big of a fan of this complainer, who knows what he might find wrong with YOUR show if you don't cater to his every whim. I wouldn't take one of my friend's shows, unless it was understood, between us, that he didn't have a problem with me getting HIS gig. I'd rather have one less gig, than one less FRIEND. In the long run, your kj friend could probably get you more gigs than this PRO karaoke singer.

Rosario

It all comes down to why the KJ is being a KJ.

If he/she is doing it for only money, then they should not be singing. Personally I am a KJ largely because I enjoy karaoke, both hosting and singing.

If a KJ chooses to charge less and still take a turn singing it is THEIR choice and the Venue's choice. It is not up to the customer. A customer may not come to a show because the KJ sings, and that may hurt attendance, but if the KJ will not be a KJ without a chance to sing, then their is no show (with that KJ).

I keep myself in the rotation, I sing no more than any other person who is in the rotation. I usually have a busy show, and I rarely sing more than 3 times a night anyway.

If the venue wants a KJ that will not sing, then it is up to the venue. It is up to the KJ what they are willing to provide in terms of if they sing or not, their KJ skills, equipment and songs. If that is acceptable to the venue for what the bar is willing to pay that is all that matters. If that combination of KJ singing, equipment and skills is enough to attract enough business for the price charged, then it is a good show in the eyes of the venue.

Unless the rotation is less than 10 singers, the KJ being in the rotation or not is really not going to matter much at all in terms of how long the singers wait.

Most of my regulars like it when I sing, I may not be the best singer (far from it). By singing I have more connection with my singers, many of whom I consider friends, and I think they go to my shows in part because of that and other similar things.

Do you mind losing a friend?.....to me, that's the Dalilahma(spelling)...

I'd tell my friend exactly what's happening NOW - before I was offered the gig, so he has a chance to change his ways and keep the gig - or decide to leave and let you have it. No "rumor" BS, just no name given on who the singer is.

That way you've looked out for your friend and given him the information he needs to take control of what happens.

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Dave's not here.

I second that

Yup, if this other KJ is a friend, I would certainly tell him (without naming names) that one of his singers is b!+ching about him singing too much. Unfortunately, it might be too late...once an owner has it in his head that he's replacing the KJ, not much can be done to change his mind.

Perhaps it will encourage this KJ to be proactive in talking with his boss, i.e. "I've heard that one of the patrons spoke to you about my singing...did you hear anything about that?" That will hopefully precipitate a forthright conversation and nip things in the bud.

My take is that unless there are less than a handful of waiting singers, the KJ should NEVER put themselves in the rotation. But that's neither here nor there...it can certainly be plausible that some people come to a show because they LIKE the KJ to sing. To me, it just makes waiting singers have to wait 5 minutes more. And even the appearance of the host taking advantage of the rotation or playing favorites will encourage regulars to be disgruntled.

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[font=Lucida Console]"Sing for the day, sing for the moment, sing for the time of your life!"[/font]

Here's my take.... This KJ (your friend) sings too much at his own show. You stated that your (ex) Regular has stated this. You also stated that you know this to be true.

Question.... By stating this KJ sings too much at his own show, is he/she singing in every Rotation? If so, is he/she singing more than once in each of these Rotations? If he/she is not, then the P.I.T.A. needs to get over himself.

I agree with the others, that you should contact your friend. Ask him/her if Management has spoken to him/her about singing too much when he/she runs his/her show there. If he/she says yes, let him/her know that you know of someone who happened to complain about that to the Management, and that that person (don't mention names) dropped your contact information (not through/by any prompting from you) with the Manager. Tell him/her that if the Manager contacts you, you are considering accepting an offer (if you truly are considering this). If he/she says no, there is a strong possibility that the Manager just said he would not stand for it, just to get that P.I.T.A. out of his face. If that is the case, the chances are, you won't be getting a call from this Manager. Either way, you have given a heads-up to your friend (and fellow KJ).

Also, if you do get a call from this Manager, I would talk to your friend about it before accepting any offer. The chances are, if that Manager calls you, he's already decided that he wants to replace your friend. If you decide not to accept the gig (even if price/fe requirements are met), then he will just look for someone else.

This KJ is always working - always landing GIGS and this is their main source of income. The problem is ..They always LOSE GIGS for the same reasons:
Singing too much - favorites and what I call just bad business ethics.
They are the BOSS type attitude and its their show and no ones going to tell them how to run the show YADDA YADDA YADDA.

Alerting this KJ would just create a realty show type drama ( KJ is a Female). don't mean to offend anyone I just know what would happen. She would know immediately were the complaint came from and then chances i would be alienating not only my KJ friend but my singer friend also.

I checked out the map last night (just in case) and I probably wouldn't take the gig if offered as its almost 50 mins from my house. ( too far for me).
I'm going to try and visit her show this Saturday and SEE FOR MYSELF what goes on and if need be ....GIVE HER SOME ADVICE .

Here's my thought, and I'm no expert. My co-host and I tend to run a few (what consider to be) fun shows a week. I don't think we do anything out of the ordinary personally. We don't use lights or an elevated stage, we kinda rib the 'bad singers' and encourage them to 'try again'. We encourage applause for every singers, we crack an occasional zinger, and we do wide variety of filler music. Basically, we just try to run a show that WE would love to go to.
In light of that, we get some 'pros' who come to our show that say that they enjoy what we do, and that 'they know the owner of BAR X, who currently employs KJ ______, but his show is struggling because of this, that, and the other. I'll talk to the owner of BAR X, and give them your names'

It's always nice to get that encouragement from one of your singers. Just let me remind you of a life principle here, not just a karaoke principle. If someone will talk bad TO YOU (for instance about this other KJ), they will eventually talk bad ABOUT YOU. Really, how long do you think it will be before you are this guy's goat? We all deal with PITA singers, but its all in the way you handle it. We just tell people that we are happy doing it at the bars we do it..and that if they enjoy it so much, to bring their friends from the other venue. We'd be happy to host them, as well.

Finally, I would say this. If the other KJ you spoke of, is REALLY a friend, I would go to him immediately and tell him about what the singer said. I mean, really, which one is your friend? Would you be happier in life without your buddy, or without the PITA singer? If someone spoke bad to me about my co-host, who happens to be my best friend, I would go to Todd immediately about it. That way he could either approach the singer, or at the very minimum, be aware of what's being said behind his back. In life, if someone doesn't have the BALLZ to approach someone else with a beef they have with that other person, then really, how big of an issue can they have with them? It must not be that big of a deal, IMO.

Keep running a great show, and keep being a great friend. Karma has a way of workin out in the end, friend.

I agree also. What matters is the degree of friendship you have. Be honest and play it from there. If you didn't solicite the gig, you've done nothing wrong.

just to repeat : I have mentioned this situation to my friend a few times.
The response is always the same. "it's my show I'll sing if I want"

Alerting her again will only make her confrontational with me or the singers.
Neither one could end good .

After thinking - I'm not going out soliciting this gig and if offered will decline due to location. If I "TIP" her off she will confront the singer who complained to me and he will go to the management and it will end badly---PAYING CUSTOMERS ARE ALWAYS RIGHT

"Current KJ is a friend of mine ....................
Regular singer is a P.I.T.A who happens to be correct about his observations about current KJ. But is looking out for HIMSELF with recommending ME as he knows I run a fair rotation and take care of him. "

If the regular SINGER is CORRECT about his observations, why is he being considered a P.I.T.A.??? Why is recommending a KJ who runs a fair rotation considered a bad "selfish" thing?

Is anyone who doesn't accept the status quo considered a P.I.T.A.? Are we as singers just supposed to accepet whatever is given to us and like it?

Many KJ's get into the business for just that reason. They didn't get to sing enough when they were a customer so they buy their own system to get gigs so they can sing whenever they want to regardless of how many people they pi$$ off.

BFFL -- Thank you for your insightful input

I restate my opinion that NONE of us are going to be PERFECT KJs in the eyes of all of the patrons.

The bar weighs our merits as KJs in many respects some KJs are great that never sing, others have good show that sing, the reverse is also true. There are horrible KJs that sing and horrible KJs that never sing.

In my eyes singing or lack of singing by the KJ is not going to make the top 10 traits of a good Karaoke show or even 20.

In some shows the KJ's singing improves the show (depending on the audience) and in others it can hurt it.

In a bar setting the statement that "THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT" is all too often wrong. Many customers are just not worth satisfying and all to often satisfying one customer is going to annoy several others. This is especially true when it comes to rotations.

Now a KJ singing more than their regular turn in the rotation could annoy some people but if the KJ treats themselves the same as everyone else what is the problem.

All I can say is that I have sung in nearly every rotation that I could as a KJ over the years, and I have many more gigs offered me as a KJ than I am willing to take, including several bars that tried to get me to replace their long serving KJs.

A KJ that sings to start a rotation is OK in my book. Some singers don't think the same and feel that a singing KJ is taking their turn. Again I don't agree with that thinking. But personally will remove myself from the rotation once it gets long enough. Although I feel that this particular kj may abuse the situation by singing more than once in a rotation or more than 1 duet etc. You would have to really now this KJ and the gigs she has lost to understand fully. Its why I said the singer is a PITA by making waves and complaints. But since he buys the beers I guess he is entitled to complain.

I agree with what BFFL stated here.

If this singer is correct in his complaint, why do you consider him to be a PITA.....
unless he complains about everything all of the time... things like:
music - too low, loo loud, too tinny, too much bass, etc...
Mic - too low, not enough reverb, etc...
Rotation - constantly asks when he's up, constantly comes up to change his song, etc...

If he is just complaining about this one thing, then I wouldn't consider him a PITA (unless, of course, I did that at my own show and carried the same attitude ("I'm the Boss...")).







Jam, you also shed a different light on things here (with regard to your OP). I don't see a moral dilema here (friend or not), because you stated your friend has an attitidue at her shows ("I'm the Boss, and I can do whatever I want at my show"). You state that she's been fired from several shows for this very same thing that your "PITA" has complained about. If she gets fired from this job, it's her own fault, and if you happen to get a call from that Manager, it's your choice whether or not you accept the gig. Since you stated that talking to her won't help (you already stated that you've spoken to her about this before), it's her bed, and let her lie in it.

Cue

This particuliar singer is a PITA for more reasons than just listed. I don't consider singers to be PITA just for expecting a good show. I was trying to give a brief description on this one singer who contacted me to put the entire scenerio in perspective. I guess the moral dilema question would be the same if I didn't mention PITA.

I didn't know BFFL was still lurking around to pick apart my post.

Ah . . . you've been down this road before. 'Tain't nuthin' you can do 'bout it, Tater. Some people's egos won't let them correct faulty practices no matter how stupid they look.

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Dave's not here.