Karaoke Forums

Here in Northern California, last year I watched, and participated in, a contest billed as "Karaoke Star Magazine Karaoke Entertainer Of The Year." The contest was broken into several qualifying rounds with each round being a theme: Country, Top 40, Rock, Oldies (Pre-1980), Standards, and Broadway/Showtunes. Each theme was run over the course of one weekend. The judges were also the contestants, i.e., if the theme was Country, all of the contestants had to judge all of the other singers in that category (except for themselves). Once all the qualifying rounds were done, the top 3 singers from each category and each night (6 singers total per theme) were invited to sing in the semi-finals. A singer could qualify for the semis in multiple categories. The semi finals were run the same way, with the judges being the singers in that category. The finals were held in San Francisco, with the a twist on the judging...the judges were still the singers, but they would judge the category singing right before them. In other words, if Country was the 1st theme to perform and Rock the 2nd, the Rock singers would judge the Country singers, and so on down the line.

Here are the problems as I saw them during that contest:

1. The top 3 singers from each category and each night advanced to the semis. In some cases, there may have only been 3 singers total competing in a specific category, so there were a lot of really poor singers advancing to the semis. One guy that qualified for the finals in several categories is legally deaf, wears a hearing aid in each ear, and is totally tone deaf! And there he was singing in the semis and thinking that "Hey, maybe I am pretty good!" Poor guy is totally tone deaf and didn't realize how bad he looked and sounded with some really good singers around him.

2. The semis were supposed to be held in a "neutral" venue, but the place I went to so I could watch some friends compete in the semis also had a LOT of contestants in the semis there! It seemed to me that these regulars did favor their friends as opposed to other good singers from other venues.

I didn't attend the finals but from those that were there said they dragged on for hours. Most KJ's that I know try to avoid contests like the plague...I can understand why. The biggest problem that I saw with this contest was having the top 3 in each category qualify for the semis. A lot of mediocre at best singers made it simply because there were only 3 singers in their category in the qualifying round...

Most of the contests I've seen weren't what I'd call fixed, but definitely what I'd call popularity contests. I entered a couple a few years back. I didn't win, but I really didn't think I deserved to win. I'm a fairly decent singer, I'm generally in tune and my voice quality is pleasant, but there are lots of people who are better.

I've judged a contest for a friend once -- it was less unpleasant than I would have guessed. The other judges scored the contest pretty close to the same way I did and I only had one guy ask to see the score sheets. He was pretty cool about things when I showed him what I looked at and how I scored him against the other contestants.

I seldom do contests unless the bar really wanted to do one. If I ever do another one the way I'll judge it is to give the singers themselves a sheet and ask them to vote. They pick a first, second and a third finisher, but they can't vote for themselves. If they do vote for themselves they are disqualified from the contest. A first place vote gets 5 points, a 2nd place gets 3 points and a third gets 1 point. Singers are rated by their point total.

I've seen all of the above..

A friend of mine owns a couple of clubs, and refuses to allow contests.

The reasons are above..

Ringers kill contests. There is a local contest here that they run every year pretty well and the same two people always finish 1st or 2nd....and no matter how good it appears that the other singers might be, it is ALWAYS these two that finish 1st and 2nd. I don't understand they those eager to compete don't realize that they don't have a chance for first or second place but every year people flock to this. Kind of a joke. I believe ringers should be placed in a separate category...like semi-pro since they actually win money singing. Give each contest a semi-pro category if want these kinds of singers involved. There is an entertainment factor involved when you do that because these people are heads above their competition. But for heaven sakes, once the bank of eager singers dries up, and it will, how long do you think you can run a contest with enough singers to make it worthwhile?

Since we are on the subject, for those of you that do contests, What are your rules for judging and what are the prizes for winners, along with who pays for it and how it is advertised? I've never done a contest before.

I'm in the middle of a contest right now and I make sure they are not FIXED. We use three judges that we seek out and secure for each week's contest. They will almost always have a musical background of some sort to lend credibility. They judge on a point system. We move a certain number through to the finals each week and also select a few wildcards for our 5th week "wildcard" night.
The venue always puts up the prize (1000.00) currently and they usually give away nightly prizes (gift certificates, etc) to keep people there.
I think they can be successful if ran properly. The main problem I have with contests is the professional singers come out of hiding at these events and try to take the loot. It's tough to tell if someone is telling you the truth about whether or not they are professional. If they come from out of town it's next to impossible to deny them the opportunity to compete. Another thing that drives me crazy is ballad after ballad ater ballad when these competitions are going on. The slow songs literally suck the life out of the room. We try to be fair and put everyone's name in a hat and call them up accordingly but 4 or five slow songs in a row are tough.

Just to add...... we have started to interject a few upbeat songs by one of us if the vibe is dying. It has worked for us and it brings the crowd back quickly. Our finals week is where the venue owner makes the majority of their money. We have over 30 finalists and their family and friends which usually equals $$$$ for the owner.

Anyone familiar with this one?




Plamor Lanes Event: International Karaoke Contest

Plamor Lanes is a participating center of the Sixth Annual International Bowling Karaoke Superstar Contest. Qualifying started on Feb. 5th 2010 and will continue every Friday night until the end of April 2010. In May 2010 the qualifiers will compete until our local winner is determined. The local winner will receive a trip to Las Vegas, including airfare and hotel accomodations for the finals. Top winner in Las Vegas receives $5000 and performs prior to the featured act at Club Xpo. Second gets $2000 and Third gets $1000.

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KingBing Entertainment C'mon Up! I have a song for you!!! [font=MS Sans Serif][/font]

There was a venue here that did a few annual contests...with the rule that if you placed in the top 3 in the finals for any contest (the 3 places that were awarded cash prizes), you were not eligible to compete again. I think it was a pretty fair system all in all, and there were no "ringers" that won year after year....

on thge subject of ringers...

The best way to deter 'contest ho's' is to require contestants to be there for more than just one contest night.

I confess to being a reformed contest ho.After I began singing professionally but before I earned enough doing so to pay my bills, I spent about 6 months depending on contest winnings to pay my rent and groceries.

Requiring someone to attend a show more than once or twice will deter most semi-pros and such, because it's not worth the investment of time, travel, and drinks if they can't 'hit n run 'in one go.

Singy, that is neat that you can support yourself with your singing. As for me, sometimes I've been known to drive people outside for a smoke. Hmmm....maybe I could get the tobaco companies to sponsor me!

"And next in the rotation we have driz, sponsored by Marlboro."

I like the idea of requiring people to attend the show more than once, thus trying to draw more from local talent.

Also, having some cool consolation prizes does much to assauge the broken hearts of those who did not finish first.

The problem with contests is that you can get a lot of singers that are fun or enjoy themselves at a karaoke but are not contest material but are your bread and butter week in week out .what happens to them while new people come in for the contest for a few weeks and they get pushed aside .

Just gonna post my standard anti-contest rant here- see number four regarding judging:


I have seen at least four venues completely lose/close out karaoke due to contests. I tell owners up front that I will NEVER do one. Here's my reasoning, all from past experience:

1) 99% of new customers will return to their regular venue after the contest, unless you are EXCEPTIONAL, and if you are, you probably still won't have the opportunity to showcase during the contest.


2) Newbies walking into the bar will be too nervous to try singing around all that talent, and these ARE possible new regulars


3) Regulars not entered in the contest will get upset about the lack of air time for them, forcing them to look for a different venue.


4) Judging: No one will be convinced it's fair. Applause? Singers will load the place with their friends if they can. Impartial judges? If they're anywhere near local they will know at least some of the singers, and the singers will know that, and never believe they are impartial.


5) You get to deal with all of the egos and whining for no extra pay. Then, the sore losers, who may have been regulars at your shows at OTHER venues, disappear both from the contest venues and your others. It has been my experience that most bars AND HOSTS lose much more than they gain with contests....AND the host ALWAYS gets most of the blame/bad feelings..
1.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Problem is probably 90% + karaoke host do not know how to run a contest to begin with & even the handful that do will still get the "It's not fair" response, however if you get judges that are knowledgeable in music in some way & the contestants KNOW what is expected from them, then 9 out of 10 times a contest CAN work and not look bad on the company or bar running it! I've been running contests for nearly 20 years at the same place & still get HUGE interest in contests & still keep our crowds!

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I agree with lonman. Contests can be successful if done properly. I've only done a handful but have been pretty lucky thus far. Impartial judges with varied musical backgrounds are key in making the contest a success as well as lending credibility to the event. When we introduce the judges each night we give them an opportunity to not only list their credentials but also talk up their profession. Vocal coaches, band members, music professors, etc. It lets people know that they are being judged by someone who is capable.

As far as price we charge about 25% more than normal for contests. There's alot more work involved as I said in an earlier post.

The regulars are usually the ones who support the contest. Sure, the ringers come out but that doesnt always equal success. We also do open karaoke during our competition and it allows those not in the contest a chance to sing.

Just heard from one of my regulars about a contest going on a few towns over. He is in the final 6 and hoping to win.

Evidently, last week while another contestant was singing, he heard this extra voice singing harmony. Looking around, he saw the HOST, back turned, helping out one of the contestants on her song.

Oh and did I mention there is only ONE judge? A sole arbiter of talent.

But all perfectly legit I am sure.

i too agree with lonman. contests just like those shows on tv have no perfect formula but it requires that if u are to run one you need impartial judges, and just plain common sense as if u were competiting.


cheers

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:angel:

Contests are a terrible idea in Karaoke. The bad people won't sing for fear of looking foolish and the good ones complain if they don't win .... There is ZERO way to make sure it's fair as singing in general is bias. It would be like having a triangle playing contest.. It might make for one or two good nights but the second the semi's start people stop paying attention.

I've heard that thousand times, I kinda believe that it's fixed ! but is that true that all of the contests are fixed ? I mean all of them? i think there are still some fair contests out there though maybe only a few, I mean who can guarantee if all fixed or not?

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Commercial Laundry
Bottled Water Distributors

I totally disagree with Tim on this. If there's a good amount of money to be won ..... they will come!! The competition I'm doing right now has been very successful thus far. Last Monday was our fifth week of the competition and we've been slammed all nights. If it's promoted right and ran right by competent people it can be great for the venue and the kj.
There's always gonna be a few snags along the way, but it's how you respond in adverse situations that defines not only you but also the outcome.
I run a "VERY FAIR" contest with credible judges and a foolproof scoring system. The true talent almost always shines through in the end. While judging can be subjective, it's my responsibility each week to bring in three non-biased judges who know enough about music to be deemed credible. Sure, you can't make everyone happy but that holds true on most karaoke nights regardless of whether or not your holding a contest.
The contests I run contain open karaoke as well. I believe it's why they are so successful. I encourage folks to come up and have a good time while the judges take a smoke break, etc. We prop them up, turn on the fog machine, play the air guitar, etc. and party down like a rock star. It eases the tension a bit and gives others a chance to experience karaoke. When the judges come back we go back to business as usual.
it's not a perfect blueprint for success but it seems to be working. SRO the first 5 weeks and the venue owner is smiling from ear to ear.