Karaoke Forums

My karaoke gig is way too busy on Saturdays. It's every week. I can't remember the last time I had fewer than 35 singers in my rotation on a Saturday, and it's often over 50, even after I erase people who have gone home, etc. I tried starting an hour earlier, but the bar did not change their advertising or even the sign out front, so it was really me standing there playing music until 10pm when people started coming in.

Drunk patrons never understand the length of the rotation. Almost every week, some redneck insults me, swears he'll never come back (good), and about once a month I have to get the door men to escort someone out for jumping on stage when it isn't their turn, or threatening me, or whatever. The nicer ones try to bribe me to let them sing next, but I tell them I don't accept tips on Saturdays, because I know it will give people the expectation that they have to pay to sing, and that's not what I'm about. My regulars from other nights all know that they aren't going to sing any more than anyone else on Saturday, so most of them don't come in or will leave pretty early on Saturday, after they sing once.

I'm pretty diplomatic with the patrons, and I don't know how to be more effective at changing their attitude without putting up a discouraging sign that says "40 SINGERS IN ROTATION" or whatever. That is what the previous Saturday KJ did, except he never had 40 singers, because it discouraged people from signing up. If someone asks me, though, of course I do tell them how long the list is; and if I am not sure I will have time to get to their song by the end of the night, I tell them that, too.

I am really getting burnt out on this Saturday gig. I tried paying a helper half my pay (!) to alternate with me so I could walk around and talk to the customers, interact with the singers more, etc. but he just screwed up the rotation and favored the people he knew, so that made for a bad night with legitimate complaints from singers.

This bar holds 200 people and they really should have a band on Saturdays, but the owner is really, really bad at booking bands, and when he briefly tried to get rid of karaoke on Saturday (at my request) it did a lot of damage to his business, because he booked really bad bands. :/

I wish I had a good idea for managing the crowd better. Hosting karaoke with 50 singers in your rotation really sucks. The owner finally realized how frustrating it is when he asked me to change from doing a "music break" at certain times (his previous request) to only doing it once I had gone through the whole rotation, and then he never heard a music break. "Isn't it about time for a music break?" I have 25 singers who haven't sang yet, do you want me to take a music break or not? "Oh. No, I guess they are here for karaoke."

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

I have felt your pain before Jeff so i feel for ya. This type of situation can result in burnout really fast for you and your friendly service may gradually decline.

I'm sure you'll get plenty of suggestions from folks here on how to lessen your stress. My 2-3 cents are to:

1. (if you use songslips) write the time on your songslips when they're turned in so no one can 'lie' to you about how long they've been actually waiting, and to help maintain the rotation in case you're overloaded with too many slips or the pile gets disorganized.

2. frequently 'thank' the crowd for their patience and remind them approx how long the rotation is at that point.

3. limit the amount of books you put out to control the flow/saturation of incoming slips and try to only take completed slips and no verbal requests.

Good Luck to you! Keep us updated on what you end up doing and what worked/ didn't work for your show. Hang in there!

Jeff ---The blessing and the CURSE of a busy show !!!

I wouldn't complain ...you need a good hosting program that calculates and shows ESTIMATED TIME TO SING ( not sure which program does that)
Then you just have to be strict in picking up your books and announcing NO MORE REQUESTS for the rest of the night when the rotation seems to put you past closng time.

SURE the drunks won't understand and the late comers will BEG and BRIBE to get a song in before closing All part of the KJ life

It beats the alternative of NO singers at all

Yeah some of the die hard singers won't like the LARGE wait but thats life

What about an additional night? Maybe adding Friday would help. We did it at a bowling alley for the same reason and it helped tremendously. Once everyone knew we were doing 2 nights it made things much more manageable/.

I have a program i've been using for years, mainly because I had it custom made - even today, it time stamps the time you were added to the rotation, estimates approx time until your next turn, time stamps the time you sang last. Can even display what the singers are singing although I don't use that portion anymore.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I think halfway through the show I'd ask everyone to come up and sing We Are the World...and maybe at the end of the show have them sing Goodnight Sweetheart. The people who got to sing the least get to hold a mic in the ensemble.

I'm not sure what the problem is. The routine (call up put music on, announcements or whatever your routine is) is the same whether you have 2 singers or 100. Every so often announce it's going to be an hour or two or whatever the time lag is and say thank you for your patience. Those who don't want to wait will leave but I find most will stay. As for obnoxious people? Well you get those whether it's 2 or 100 singers in the rotation.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Compuhost has approximate times of next song. the only other software that actual says you have such and such a wait time is AutoKDJ.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Hoster shows the length of the show, and it counts down by minutes until the next song comes up. I depend on this heavily when I am running a 27-30 person rotation.

Yes a big show with a long waitlist (no longer a rotation) is a bit more stressful for the KJ.

I strongly try to resist the bribes and pleading as much as possible to bump people up. But when people know they have to wait 2+ hours to sing (and many of them are at least partially drunk) it can make things more difficult.

Fortunately for me "angry" about not getting to sing is not that common (but one regular is begining to trend that way). I rarely have to force people from the stage, but it does happen.

Sure it just involves saying "no wait your turn" in the nicest way possible again and again through the night. Unfortunately a lot of people think they are somehow special and deserve more. It is difficult because I consider many of the regulars friends as well.

The hardest thing is singers who are friends of the bartender/owner and force them to ask the KJ to bump someone up in the rotation. Of course if they are real friends not just clients of the the owner/bartender, then it is difficult for them to resist the request, and equally hard for the KJ to turn down the employer. I usually bump the singer up 2-3 slots in the rotation in such a case, but it just changes a 2 hour wait to a 1 hour 50 minute wait.

The predicted wait is good, but it becomes hard as inevitably some people are going to leave when they have a 2+ hour wait, especially as their expected singtime is close to 2am closing time.

For my last thursday show it was a single rotation night 46 different singers, and only one repeat singer the whole night. He was a long time regular (5+ years at the bar) who also happend to have his bachelor party that night (and his second song was after normal closing time in addition).

I agree with trying to get the owner to do one more night of karaoke. That is certainly your best option.

Otherwise, I don't believe you can ever be TOO BUSY, unless you are not being paid enough. Handling the people is a good chunk of the karaoke job. If the rotation truely is TOO long for some of the people there, then your "problem" is going to work itself out, because they'll stop coming. If the large rotation is not an issue for the singers, then there is no issue. Basically, it is an organic thing that will work itself out either way
without you having to do anything.

It sounds like what you want is the same sized crowd, but a slightly shorter rotation. Having another karaoke night at the same bar would accomplish this, but otherwise, it isn't gonna happen.

Sounds like you have a wildly successful show, and you may need to ask for more $$$ since your show is bringing in ALOT of patronage for the bar. If you consistently have a 50 person rotation, then you are bringing in somewhere around 100 people, since the singers have friends. If 100 people spend just $15.00 each (most will spend more...that's very conservative), your owner is making $500+ JUST on your show, and you should be paid around $250.00-300.00. If you are making $125-150 to handle a nightly 50 person rotation, then it is time to ask for another night AND a raise!!

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C Mc
KJ, FL

I totally agree with timberlea.

I also think there's reason enough for you to request another night. It sure wouldn't hurt them to try, especially if they find out the big draw is the karaoke.

I do karaoke on Tuesday and Thursday at the same place, but they have serious bartender issues lately. I always remind the Saturday crowd that we have karaoke on the other nights, but what happens is every-other-Thursday they have a really slow, bad bartender who honestly can't make drinks and has no business being a bartender. There will be 60 people in there, half of them waiting 15 minutes (literally) for a chance to order a drink, and the crowd will quickly die off because "you can't get a drink at Mac's." That is not a solvable problem unless the owner stops being myopic about his bartenders, which he probably won't, but in any case it's not my business.

The bar situation used to be very bad on Saturday, but I eventually got tired of it and insisted they get a beer tub. That helped a lot, and it is a large part of the reason why their business is up so much. However, the problem bartenders on Tuesday and Thursday just need to be fired, because no one else will work with them and split tips, it's retarded how slow they are. Not to mention, I ordered a common drink from one of them last week, it was made wrong, completely missing a liquor, and when I asked she didn't even offer to replace it or take it off my tab. I am sure ordinary customers get the same treatment. If you aren't good to the KJ who pays and tips like anyone else, then who are you good to? Probably no one.

Anyway, they almost always have a band on Friday. If not, they have me play "dance music" from 10p-2a, which usually makes them as much money as having a band actually. I don't want to kill off the live music, though, in theory it should bring in new customers who want to see the bands, and may lead to repeat business that they can't get through other advertising.

I do have an opportunity to try something different later this month. The owner absolutely does not understand that consistency is how you build repeat business. So every once in a while, he books a band on a Saturday. Why, I do not know. But anyway, he also agreed to host a charity benefit with a karaoke contest on the same day as this band. The charity already advertised so they probably won't change their plans, and canceling the band would be stupid, too; it's the best band that plays there. Also, the charity advertised that their karaoke contest will be from 8pm until midnight or something. I don't know how it got this screwed up, as I only found out about this last night when the owner handed me their advertisement and said "here's what we are doing on the 24th!"

Anyway, what I hope will happen is something like this:
8:00pm - 9:30pm, karaoke for charity patrons
9:30pm - 10:30pm, band plays, cover charge starts at 10pm
10:30pm - midnight, charity karaoke contest, announcements, whatever
midnight - 2:00am, second band set, break with filler music, final band set

If that works okay on this upcoming Saturday, maybe I can modify the way we do Fridays and use karaoke to get more people in to see the bands. About half the bands that play here suck really bad, or are just booked wrong, and do not know how to entertain a 20s crowd. The other half have okay or good nights, but they would be better if customers were willing to come here for a band they don't already know. Unfortunately, the place has a reputation for charging $5 at the door for a crappy band, and they have had this rep for a very long time, it will probably never change.

Oh, on a couple things other posters mentioned, I never give in to the "move me up" or "what if I give you $20?" singers. I am polite to them, and explain that I am paid to be fair to everyone. If they argue excessively I just wait for someone else to come up and ask for something (never takes long on Saturday), and then I tell the argumentative person I can't spend all my time on one person. If they don't go away I ask them to leave the bar. If they get in my face, security escorts them to the parking lot. I wish that never happened, but it does.

The owner's daughters and friends do often try to pressure me into letting them sing sooner/next, and they always have. I have always told them no and stood my ground. At first I got flack for this, but now they know that their complaints to the owner will not result in me changing how I run my show, they would have to fire me and get another KJ. I don't even let the owner himself jump ahead. He once thought I forgot about his song, but I pointed it out in RoxBox, 10 songs down, and showed him I had 55 singers signed up, so he knew he was getting the same, fair treatment as everyone else, which is what he pays me to do. It might seem like a jerk thing to do, but not everyone knows he owns the bar, and if some singers saw him sing an extra time, I would probably get complaints about it.

As far as pay goes, I do get paid twice as much on Saturday as my other nights. I asked for that a few months ago, otherwise I was going to quit. I might ask for something else in a few more months, but right now I am waiting for them to spend money on upgrading their in-house PA, as it really sucks, but they don't pay me enough to bring my own, so I do that only rarely when I have something special going on.

It's not just what I am doing that makes the Saturdays successful. That's part of it, but the Saturday bartenders are good and fast, the beer tub is always stocked and staffed, the drink prices are very reasonable, food is cheap, and the venue is huge for a "karaoke bar." Plus pool tables, dart boards, video games, etc. I couldn't bring 50 singers into a smaller venue without all that other stuff on my side, it's a total team effort. There are other KJs in town who have more songs than me, different personalities, give away more drinks to customers, whatever. I do have the advantage of being a reasonably good sound guy (karaoke pays more though, ironically) but any idiot off the street could still do okay there IMO.

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

Sounds like you have the attitude that you don't have any power in this situation, so I guess your options are either to suck it up and deal with the large rotation or quit. Also sounds like you are getting a low-ball rate due to the bar offering their house system. I bet the bar is FUN FUN FUN for you most nights, and a nightmare some nights. So I guess you take an honest inventory of the pros and cons and either do the job you have been presented or quit.

I know I personally would NEVER work a gig with a house system and a lower KJ rate. Not only does bringing your own equipment generally = a much higher pay rate, but you end up with ALOT more negotiating power with the venue in general if you have a good system.

Anyway, sounds like you are pretty resigned to your options. Enjoy!

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C Mc
KJ, FL

Unfortunately, like the others have said, a long rotation is the curse of a successful show. AutoKDJ is a great program that automatically adds songs to you rotation and it also has an option that you can check where it will stop accepting songs once there are enough songs to fill up to whatever time you choose, say 1:30 am, if that's when karaoke is finished.
As for people trying to bribe you and getting nasty about it, you will get that no matter what, as others have said.
Just last week, I had to tell a guy "no" when he wanted to pay me $20 to move his buddy up. Then he told me "we just brought in over $3000 to this place earlier" (it was his buddy's birthday and they all had sushi and massive amounts of drinks). Again, I told him what I tell everyone.... "See all these people here? (he nods) They are here because I DON'T do what you just asked me to do. EVER. They know I run a fair rotation and that everyone who puts a slip in waits the same amount of time, no matter who they are. I appreciate that you brought in a bunch of business earlier, but these people come here EVERY week and easily spend that. If I start taking bribes, how long do you think it will be before I start hearing crickets in this place because they've gone down the street to the other place?"
And then I shut up and if need be, I become a broken record. When they get fed up with that and start to call me names, I remind them who controls whether they sing or not. That usually solves it.
Incidentally the guy ended up tipping me $5 when all was said and done. Shoulda been the $20, though, just for having to put up with his crap.
I'm with you, though. I got into this business for fun, not for the stress of such nights. I just keep reminding myself about the money and the other nights that are less stressful. It's great for the resume as well. You also can control the purse strings a little with that kind of power, as well. You know you pack the place and without you, it's dead. Try for a raise. Don't abuse it, but definitely use it to your advantage!
Good luck!

Taking the liberty to edit the OP, this is what I gleaned from the OP


The following response is absolutely accurate, but it doesn't address the additional stress caused by a large number of waiting singers or consider the possibility that the large number of participants increases the likelihood of making an error in managing the rotation, which can only induce more stress

Some suggested adding another night of karaoke at the venue, but I don't follow how adding another night shortens the rotation significantly on Saturday. I do wonder why people are sticking around. Is it the only DECENT Saturday night karaoke in the area? Meanwhile, he's already doing two other shows in the same location and that hasn't seemingly helped to alleviate the problem!



Hmm? So even with "problems" on Tues & Thurs and particularly every other Thurs night there is still a "crowd" those nights, as well? And the problems on those nights is being caused by "them" and no one will work with "them" (and split the tips). Correct? So, does your concern with "them" and desire to see "them" fired mean that you want to build Tuesday's & Thursday's rotation up so it begins to look like Saturday's?

And Jeffsw6 solved a very bad problem with service on Saturday night by adding a beer tub (whatever that is?) which dramatically improved things and increased business. Is there a beer tub for the other nights? If so, why hasn't it solved the problem; if not, why isn't there a beer tub?

Jeffsw6, I am not really sure what you are trying to accomplish with this post?

If a helper would solve YOUR problems on Saturday night, as you thought it would, then find the RIGHT helper, not one that makes matters worse.

If you simple need to escape the pressure of Saturday, and can't find useful helper, than perhaps you should once again give up Saturday night?

YOU CANNOT RESCUE the owner from his mistakes. For example, if he doesn't know how to hire bands, that's his problem. It's not your problem and it shouldn't have made you return to working Saturdays!

If you are truly burnt out, then there probably is nothing that can be done.

So... it's your move! And doing nothing is an option (move) unless you truly want out! And if you do, then get out.

You already knew that no one here is going to come up with a miracle that would make a rotation of 50 singers look and feel like a rotation half that size. Meanwhile, you already implied that you know how to reduce the rotation if you really want to:



PS. Have you considered getting rid of the beer tub on Saturday? it is a large part of the reason why their business is up so muchLOL

This is what I have to do on the big nights. Be sure to let people KNOW that there are 40 people and you apologize for the long wait. When people complain, remind them that there are 39 other people waiting too and it's not just them.

Sometimes when the obnoxious people complain, I say "It's just like Kindergarden. We all have to stand in line and wait our turn."

Well, the owner totally fails to understand how to entertain his customers, and he does not get how busy they are compared to other bars. That is why he tries to serve 200 customers with 2 bartenders plus a beer tub (which is just a miniture bar that does not sell any mixed drinks, it is a very fast, no-wait way to get a beer, but if you want a mixed drink or draft beer you must go to the main bar and wait your turn.)

It is fun on Tuesday and Thursday, and Saturday is sometimes fun, sometimes not. I love when a big birthday party is there, and I will carefully put their songs in the rotation so someone from the party sings frequently, even though the individual singers are not getting any more turns than anyone else. That is one thing I started doing as soon as I got this job, it is a little unfair to put someone from a birthday party at spot #10 in a list of 30 singers but I also announce the birthday at that time, and my motivation is obviously to do what I think is the best way for the venue to keep a big party of heavy drinkers, which is spread the people in their party out through the rotation so they are entertained often. I wish I didn't have to do that and I know it is unfair but I think it's a smart way to handle big groups.

Also on very busy nights when there are big groups like that, I will often add in a song for the whole group, common song like "Don't Stop Believing," that the whole party can sing at once. Photo op, gets them all up at once, and it makes every person in the party feel like they got a chance to sing at once even though they may wait a long time for their individual song.

As far as the house PA and lower rate, yes, it sucks, I make less than I did last year before they had house PA. The reason I am still working there is basically that I know they will hire a pirate KJ with a laptop full of pirated songs if I quit. Almost every karaoke show in my town is a pirate KJ, and I don't want to compete with one more of them. So I am working as cheap as I can, and basically my pay is enough to pay for me and my girlfriend to eat and drink while we are there, and for me to keep my music and karaoke up-to-date. It's not putting any money in my pocket anymore, and that sucks, but I hate the idea of some pirate KJ having the biggest, most popular karaoke gig in town. Plus I get a lot of private gigs from working there, weddings, and such, so the big crowd means I meet more potential customers. I have had many offers from other bars to come work at their places for more money, but I guess I am kinda attached to this one, and I want to do the best job I can there, even though the pay sucks.

I do own excellent PA, even the local sound contractors in my town do not have nearly what I own, and it does anger me that I use crap in-house PA that is honestly not adequate for the job, but I am not going to use mine more often without more pay. I only bring it for special events.


I use RoxBox which has singer rotation, and for singers who put in multiple songs, I make a stack for each person, and queue their next song once they sing their first one. I think it also has "last sang" "next song" type columns as well, but I never know how many people will leave as 2:00 AM approaches, usually there are at least 5 to 10 people I can't get to before they leave on Saturdays, so that affects the rotation significantly as it gets later, and it is unpredictable.


I do make mistakes occasionally, and when I do I apologize to the singer, offer them a beer, and unless I am already done for the night, I do my best to fix it by putting their song next. However, it is much more frequent that customers lie, accuse me of claiming they would get to sing at a certain time when I never do that, etc. Typical of all KJ jobs I am sure. If I think I might have made a mistake, I try to fix it; but it's usually pretty obvious that the complaining customers are just making things up, as I do not tell anyone "your song will be in an hour" or "it will be before midnight," and these are usually the claims they make when they try to manipulate their way into singing out-of-turn.

I put song slips into RoxBox immediately when I receive them. I also keep my slips looking neat on my table, so people who don't know I use the computer for singer rotation don't assume that I am disorganized. I learned about a year ago that it is impossible to explain to a drunk person that the computer does the rotation, so I keep the slips neat now.


I do have the best show in my area. There are KJs with more songs, better lights, cheaper drink specials, etc. but there is only one other KJ in town who is remotely close to as good at sound as I am, and his place is smaller. Singers notice when they sound great at one place and sound like everyone else at another, and they know I care about how they sound because I stand at FoH all night hearing what the audience hears; I do not sit behind the PA or on the stage like every other KJ in my area. I required that the in-house PA be setup that way when they bought it, or I was not going to work there anymore.



No, I want to build Tuesday and Thursday up so much that the owner will realize it is busy enough for two bartenders, and add a second one to the schedule on those nights. Honestly, I had this done 2 months ago, which is right when the bartending schedule got changed around a lot, and it reduced my Tuesday and Thursday crowd from about 30 singers to 10 - 20. The fast bartenders were barely keeping up, but they did not want to work with the slow ones they knew would get added to the schedule, so it was status quo for a few months. Then the schedules got changed for reasons unknown to me, and Tuesday and Thursday are now much, much slower.

I even did a karaoke contest every Tuesday and Thursday in April, no entry fee, prize money on "finals night," t-shirts given away every night. The venue did not promote it at all, the owner FORGOT ABOUT IT on the first night and did not have my t-shirts out, I had to get the bartender to give away polos and ball caps from the logo inventory several times because the beer vendor freebies were locked up in an office several times, etc. And many of these nights started out great and dwindled as the bartenders got, and stayed, "in the weeds."

Like you said, though, you can't save a bar owner from their stupidity. All I can do is try to bring in people who want to drink and sing.[/quote]


It has to be staffed. It is only used on Friday and Saturday. Usually it's not needed on Fridays because the bands do so poorly, but on Saturday the beer tub worker makes good tips just like the bartenders.


Good point, but I have tried 3 different people, all of which I paid, I never asked anyone to help me for free, and all of them just couldn't deal with the customers or the rotation size without screwing up. It's really frustrating.

I do wish the Saturday bands worked out better, and I often wish I had not agreed to do Saturdays again. If my live sound business keeps getting better I might quit doing Saturdays, but it's only been 3 months since I asked for more money, so I don't feel right quitting. In another 3 months I will consider that option again.

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

I think you guys are (rightfully) convincing me that I need to just take a gig at a different bar or ask for a fair amount of pay regardless of whether or not the owner is making money. It's not my fault he can't manage his bartending staff, and it's obvious to everyone except him that one slow bartender can't serve 50+ customers. This bar has FOR YEARS had the "you can't get a drink at Mac's" reputation, and the reason is his poor management.

Before they had the beer tub they had the same issue every time they had a popular band, and that is actually why many of the good local bands will not play there anymore, because they were made to feel like they were not doing a good job of getting customers there, when in fact, customers were there and could not get served.

So unless the owner's attitude changes, Tuesday and Thursday will never get better. As far as Saturday goes, I still do not know if there is a better way to do it. I guess I will make more announcements about the length of the rotation and if customers leave, so be it.

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

Is this the place not far from Louisville, KY I got to check out last year for my Kentucky Derby vacation?

If so it's a big place. Big rooms make karaoke hard. I always try for a 20% singer max.

My rooms hold around 150 people I never want more than 30 singers. I play tons of dance music it keeps my rotation manageable.

I had a first round 10, Second 18 and third 23 last week and that was too many for me. My nights are more a dance party with karaoke. We take a break from the music to let some people sing.


One thought I started doing on some crazy nights only X amount of karaoke slots are available. I have a big white board with the time of the song slot. I put people's name next to the time. Everyone gets 1 turn after 12:00am til close.