Karaoke Forums

Recently the bar owner I've worked for, for 6 yrs, approached me about doing karaoke contests. Aaaarg!

This is a small bar with a lot of regulars. This is an environment that could not with stand contests. It would kill my crowd. I have backlash from the Halloween Costume Contest every year let a lone a karaoke contest.

I explained the problem with this is there is only one winner and everyone else is a loser. Which results in one person being happy and everyone else mad they did not win. This turns a karaoke family of people into enemies arguing over who was better, the contest was fixed etc... I don't get a flux of new people in the bar all the time. It is mainly groups of regulars who all know each other, party together, and encourage each other. Sure you may bring in new people for the nights of the contest, but your talking about a group of people that only come to bars for contests. A lot of water drinkers and disloyal bar hoppers. The charm of our bar is it is small and friendly. People come back because it is such a family of friendly people. I have regulars that go to other bars for contests here and there, but guess where they go the other nights when the that bar is not having contests. Everyone helps them pick out songs for there contest and encourages them. When the contest ends at the other bar though they are back to where they know people and are comfortable not being judged. We'd have some large crowds for the contests sure, but what happens when the contests are over. The friendly atmosphere is killed and I have no crowd.

There is a certain atmosphere that contest work in and it is not my bar.

The owner didn't back down, saying he has it all figured out. I told him I would not do it. Then he asked who I'd get to run my equipment for it. I laughed and said he'd have to bring in someone else. I can't be associated with it at all. That's why I have nothing to do with the Halloween costume contest. I hear the comments after. I'm not associated with it, so I don't get blamed for it. People actually tell me the only reason they'll come back after is for me because they're mad at the bar. It crazy really how upset people get when they don't win.

I haven't heard anything more about. I hopefully have made my point.
Again I want to say I have nothing against people who run contests it just isn't for me and the atmosphere I work.

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Good for you Babs! sounds like you handled it fine to me. I am with you on this one contests would cause more problems than anything at our regular shows as well. Bar owners don't always see all aspects of running a karaoke show. keep up the good work!

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I'll be alright as long as there's light from a neon moon

Hopefully it works out for you - without too much backlash from the owners.

If the owner is set on giving money away - why not try a raffel type drawing -- Everytime a singer sings they get a entry into the raffel. The more times you sing the more times you show up the more chances to win. It FUN and no ones feelings get hurt

What a great idea! And your right it is a perfect opportunity to suggest something like that.

I like it because I can do it on my slow night, Saturday, to encourage more people to come in. It seems as if everyone wants to come Fridays. It gets so crowded you can barely move then Saturday comes along and about 4th the crowd is there. I am already picturing my fliers - Raffle Saturday - The 1st Saturday of every month. Woo hoo!

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[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

No WAY am I letting someone else run my equipment! And you're right on track! I won't have anything to do with contests anymore, either, especially after the last one, unless it's like jam suggested - a random drawing. Otherwise, I will give an absolute no, and they will have to bring another company to host it. Down side for the owner at my one venue is (but up side for me!), there isn't another company near enough who would do it, especially for the pay he'd want to give them. I also think he now knows better than to try and replace me. I draw a large crowd and I've brought in substitutes for my holidays, using their own equipment, of course, and when I got back, I heard nothing but, "Boy! are we glad you're back! Nothing against the replacement, but we like your updated library, system, sound mixing skills, and personality better". Just last week, I was thanked by the owner for "lotta customers"!

The ONLY way I would run a contest is on a night when there is no karaoke already. It's a great way to launch a new night. NO WAY would I run one on an established night though

Babs, consider that what you're doing is directly refusing a reasonable request from your owner. IMHO, that's grounds for dismissal. Just because you're working cheap won't save you from this confrontation.

Did you consider perhaps because there are TOO many regulars who are taking up space and not ringing the register, that the owner wants to get some NEW patrons in the place by having a contest? After all, that's the real benefit of having one...getting people into your venue who have never been there before. The hope is that some will return after the contest.

We just had a long thread about the best ways to conduct a fair contest. One important point was to bring in outside judges not affiliated with you or the bar owner. Perhaps you can recruit local musicians, politicians, radio DJs, newspaper columnists, etc. Give them a bar tab for their troubles. Change up the panel from week to week.

When there are problems with contests is when the impartiality of judges are in question.

The other thing you can do is start your contest at 10 pm - and have open singing from 8-10. Limit contest entries to 10 each week, hold it over a number of weeks.

All I can say is you must be REALLY confident in the security of your position and your relationship with the owner. If the owner has already done thinking and planning on how and why he'd like to have a contest in HIS BAR, I would plan on being replaced rather than the owner just cowering and not having the contest.

Yes, EVERYONE can be replaced. There are too many karaoke hosts out there to be that cavalier. And if I were deadset on having a contest in MY bar and my employee wouldn't do it, I would rather bring in another host - even for a higher price - than be told I can't do something in MY bar. It becomes a matter of pride.

Yes, remove yourself from any judging. But do what your boss wants if you want to keep the gig.

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[font=Lucida Console]DangerousKaraoke.com[/font]
[font=Lucida Console]"Sing for the day, sing for the moment, sing for the time of your life!"[/font]

I like to do a contest every few months. We do not charge anything to enter, and the prizes are the right size that the winners feel good but it does not attract the "contest hoppers" you speak of, the ones that go around drinking water and singing the same song in every karaoke contest in town, and getting mad if they do not win.

I had several weeks of "qualifying" on slow nights, where the top singers got a free t-shirt and a finals spot. On "finals night" the top 3 winners got $100, $50, and $25, and there was of course lots of time for the non-finalists to sing and enjoy themselves as well. The finals were fun, no one thought it was unfair, and the winners were all good singers and good entertainers who worked the crowd and got people into their performance. I had 4 judges who had no interest in anyone winning or losing, and all the finalists were very, very close in score. One judge would like a particular singer more or less than the other three, of course; but when all 4 opinions/scores were added together, it appeared to be quite fair, and no contestants said otherwise.

We seem to have different prize money and a slightly different format every time, but as I said, I try to do this every few months, and it is for the singers to have bragging rights and win t-shirts and drinking money. The point of it has not been to bring in new business so much as to do something fun once in a while.

I love Halloween and other holiday "events." The bar I do my show at is not a "karaoke bar," it is a bar that has karaoke. I don't monopolize the entertainment and my singers do not expect that.

But not every bar is the same, maybe a costume contest or karaoke competition or whatever is the wrong thing in the OP's place. I'm just saying it works for the venue I'm at, and obviously every place is different.

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

I totally agree with your stand on contests Babs, but I probably would have explained things from the standpoint of the bar owners Z tape.

If he runs a contest new people will come in, a lot of them. His family of regulars will feel supplanted and they will drift away. When the contest ends the new people will not come in anymore and the regulars will have found someplace else to call home.

I have seen that happen too many times.

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Okay, who took my pants?

Babs, it's interesting to me that he would override you, with all the experience you have with your crowd. I do not like to be connected with contests either - last summer I ran one as an adjunct to the regular show - set aside 30 minutes for people to qualify. I warned them what would happen - that the contest whores would show up and sure enough..>Never saw the winner again. And yes, it is the hosts who have to answer to the patrons. The majority of the singers who frequent my shows don't care about contests - they're there to socialize, etc., much like your patrons, Babs.

Exweed and Karen K:

BINGO!

I won't run a contest, period. If the club is dead set on it, I will tell them that they need to replace me with another KJ during the contest time and I will return as soon as the KJ and contest has killed their crowd.

Sure, they will get people that want to "qualify" and on the grand finale, they'll probably have a jam-packed bar... with water and pop drinkers that want to "stay sharp" for the contest... Lots of people that make the servers simply deliver water and the till has squat.

When the contest is over, so is the crowd....

It's not worth the time and trouble.

Pay me to sing, the contest idea is toast..

Dan-
You don't disappoint me with your view. You always seem to know the negative take on most people's decisions when running their business that is why you get negative feedback on the forum. It's a shame really because sometimes I think you have something of value to say, but most turn a deaf ear to it because of your negative posts.



My intent was not to condemn all contests. Jeff I'm glad it works for you and see nothing wrong with what you're doing if it works for your venue.

Aaah it's so nice to see not much has changed here since I've been gone. Thanks Dan for such a warm welcome back.

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

Whoa! You post something in a public forum, it's open for opinion. I offered mine. It wasn't meant to be negative or positive, just realistic.

If you want to convince yourself that people are there for YOU and not just karaoke in general, although I'm sure you are a great host and many of the patrons love you, life (and business) go on.

What if one of the bar's waitresses decided to become militant vegan and refused to serve hamburgers to customers? How long would she last?

If the bar owner is deadset on having a karaoke contest, and you want to have a standoff with him because you won't host it, he would have every right to fire you. My opinion was even if it meant paying another host to come in, as the owner I'd be g*dam*ed if I was going to let my karaoke host tell me know to run my business.

As for the "welcome back"...didn't notice you were gone. But welcome back!

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[font=Lucida Console]"Sing for the day, sing for the moment, sing for the time of your life!"[/font]

See Dan? You are doing it again. Taking a negative view of her post about your negative view of her post.

Seriously, she didn't disagree with you. You made very valid points about the potential downside.

It's a tough call. I HATE contests for all the reasons mentioned and would initially put up the same fight. BUT if the bar is deadset on doing it anyway, with or without me...I would swallow my pride and do it. But I would be triply sure that all my bases were covered and I was as immune to the fallout as possible.

I don't like the idea of contests, and I don't think they work in a bar with mainly regulars.

Exceptions could be for example at a vacation location with a lot of visitors, or the opening of a new show that is just starting.

On the other hand mini contests that work with the regulars could be an idea that could work with regulars. For example a 1 hour contest for the best song from a particular artist. Change the artist each week and go to different genres.

There is no real fair way to judge a well done rap song compared to a love balad or hard rock song. Too much personal preference for music type is involved for anyone to fairly judge it.

By limiting to one artist, you favor the singers that do best for that song style and it will not hurt the egos of people who don't think of that genre/artist as their specialty as much. By mixing up the artist/genre each week it could give different singers the prize, without an arbitrary "one win per month".

Even so with a show that is mainly regulars with such a contest I would not give any significant prize, maybe $10-$20 bar tab at most. Big prizes create false hopes that will be dashed for most.

As for long contests with weekly winners winning slots to compete in the finals that may be months away. That may work somewhere but not in my shows which are mainly regulars, and if they are not there they have their own valid conflicts and they would be upset if they could not make the "finals".

Dangerously Negative Dan -



I can't imagine why a statement like this would be negative. Let's see, I work cheap and should be fired.


You have an interesting approach of giving constructive criticism. Cutting people down is not a way to get them to listen to you. Obviously I know the owner well enough that I can speak about how I truly feel without being fired. Maybe you've never worked any one place long enough to have this type of relationship with an owner.

I have a long standing relationship with the owner (6 years 3 nights a week). He has a complicated personality, but we understand each other. I'm usually the compromising easy going type of person and he knows that. By me being bold and standing my ground I was able to keep him from making a big mistake. He actually knows when it comes to karaoke when he doesn't take my advice it back fires on him. It has happened before. He has a strong personality and I knew I had to make a strong statement to get him to listen. The bar manager backed me up on my statement - I guess we'll both be looking for cheap paying jobs next week.

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

Jam, that's the only type of contest we run, name out of a hat, only we give away a car - still in its package. .

Dan we tell bars we don't do talent contests, period for the exact reasons given. In fact in my other job I will not allow my client to tell me how to do it. They don't like it, too bad. I'm a professional and know my business.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

I'll make it short and sweet, NO CONTESTS FOR ME!!! Welcome back Babs!!



Rosario

Should this contest happen to go on Babs, put it on here ( the days ) so I know to stay away and play closer to home. Then again, I should show up just to tell your boss that Ill be back when the contest is done.


Oh yeah. Dan, "militant vegan" Where'd ya get that one? I'm still laughing at where you could've come up with that. Sounds like you're losing some steam here. What weapon does this vegan use? A dill pickle spear