Karaoke Forums

L OL, Joe...there are lots of "meat is murder"-types in Seattle. And a lot of thriving vegan restaurants as well. To each their own; I prefer my own cheeseburger in paradise.

Whether engaged as a karaoke host for a couple of hundred bucks, or a wedding/corporate DJ for a couple of thousand, I've always seen my role as an entertainer for hire to make my client's wishes a reality to the best of my ability.

Yes, I also feel it's my obligation to give them the benefit of my experience in creating a successful event. If a bride wants me to play 4 hours of Armenian polka music, I would advise against it. But if that's what she really wants, I have 2 options. Do it and use my talent and experience to pull it off the best I can, or expect my contract to be cancelled.

There's a reason why people own their own businesses rather than work for The Man. They want to make their own decisions on how and when they will work. If you own your own karaoke company, you and you alone call the shots on what days, times and places you'll work. What you'll do and won't do. And how you want your business to present itself to the public.

Babs, the only point I was making is that you are certainly entitled to refuse your boss's request to do a contest. I guess I'm puzzled why after 6 years (he must certainly know how you feel about them) why he wouldn't first discuss the idea with you instead of "having it all figured out" before he brought it up to you?

Sounds like he knew exactly how you would react, which is why he had it "all figured out" before coming to talk with you.

Getting back to why people own their own businesses: they want to do things their way! Over the years, I've had supervisors approach me with projects they want to launch to which I've taken exception and presented what I thought was a solid business case against them. In some cases, they capitulated. However, the majority of the time they told me, "I acknowledge your position, but we're going to move forward with this." They're the boss, they sign the checks, and the success/failure is ultimately on them. Again, I can do my best to make the project a success, or I can walk out the door.

Babs, it sounds like you feel that because you have a 6-year tenure and are working for less than what it would take to bring in another host that you can "pull rank" and the owner will capitulate. Forget the "love fest" you have with the regulars. The ring is what matters. I'm sure the whole reason the contest idea came to your boss's mind was that he wanted more new people in there spending money rather than the same ol' same ol' crowd nursing a beer or drinking water. He might even be willing to clean house of some of the "dead weight" regs and risk perhaps having fewer people at first, but people who spend more money.

You are looking at this with EGO, not as a business decision. As a business owner, I might well think that putting in a new karaoke host would give a clean sweep to the freeloaders and get some new energy in my place. So a bunch of your fans leave? Something tells me they'll be back! If your bar is in their neighborhood and they're comfortable there and they like singing karaoke, in a few weeks I'm sure they would "stick their head in" to see the new host. Then stop and have a drink and sing a song. Then the crowd is built back up again. Why? Because they like singing karaoke at their neighborhood bar more than Babs, the host.

Again, step aside from ego for a second. People come to their local bar for their convenience. So there's a new karaoke host. The bar is still there, the drinks are still there and the karaoke is still there. They'll make the change. You won't put the bar out of business if you leave.

One of my venues had a bartender who lots of the regulars loved. She was there for many years. But as time went on, the owner got more and more complaints that she was curt and unwelcoming to many non-regulars and was actually driving new patrons away. It was a tough call, but the owners finally let her go. The regulars protested to the owner and "boycotted" the bar. They posted hateful messages on internet boards about the place. Some found a new watering hole. Long story short: within a few months most all the regulars were back, as well as many more new customers. Why? Because they liked the bar more than the bartender.

Business isn't stagnant. Sometimes change is good. Babs, if this is the stand you want to make and you feel that your relationship will supersede what your boss thinks is a good business decision, good luck with that. But be careful what you ask for. I think there's a good chance you might hear, "I respect that you don't want to do a contest. But this is the direction I want to go in, and I'm the boss. If you won't do what I ask, we'll have to make some changes here."

Personally, I would use my talents to help do the best contest possible and be diligent about making it fair. Rather than show disdain and not support the decision of the bar (patrons pick up on that) I would be the head cheerleader and "sell" it to the regs as best I could.

I wish you success in your decision.

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[font=Lucida Console]DangerousKaraoke.com[/font]
[font=Lucida Console]"Sing for the day, sing for the moment, sing for the time of your life!"[/font]

I go into every gig with the response that I will not do contest because I don't want to be blamed when the contest is over for the drop in clientèle and that includes those that were already there. I will however do contests that have nothing to do with singing ability like mystery song contest where you have to sing the secret song to win. It is a contest that might get people who wouldn't normally sing to sing.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Dan, Babs has a very unusual karaoke situation, and she makes above average KJ wages......I can vouch for her....it is as she says, and it is a bit hard to believe...

DannyG2006,

The mystery song thing, is it that basic? Or is there more to it? Sounds like it could be fun. I'm kinda versatile, though I favor country. And it definitely comes off as a game, not a contest.


DDAN quote: "People come to their local bar for their convenience. So there's a new karaoke host. The bar is still there, the drinks are still there and the karaoke is still there. They'll make the change. You won't put the bar out of business if you leave. "

I agree with we go local. But there have been KJ changes and us liking the bar, we don't go back for that new KJ. We don't accept that change. We find another place until the bar makes a change. This is based on a change that has brought the karaoke enjoyment down a couple of levels. MOF, we've chosen to stay home instead of going to that place. So don't be over confident thinking you know the singers. Afterall, a bad change for the bar saves me money.

Gee Babs, didn't realize you were working for minimum wage! Welcome back anyway, I was wondering yesterday if you were ok!

Nobody knows your situation like you. You do it your way and stick to your guns.


Now, I was thinking, and then kinda saw it in another post. What about a contest for regulars only. How do you define a regular singer? Well compuhost tells me who has sung, what they have sung, when they sung it, and how many songs they sang. Maybe the contest is open to anyone that has sung at least 10 songs at the host's shows (at that bar) and of course, any regulars that haven't sung but should at least be qualified as to not pizz them off. Stupid idea or some merit?

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KingBing Entertainment C'mon Up! I have a song for you!!! [font=MS Sans Serif][/font]

I LIKE IT! Also the mystery song idea, it would get people to try new tunes.

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Okay, who took my pants?

Thank you everyone for the welcome back. I guess I've stirred a bit of entertainment with my return, sorry.

I do have to say Dan you go to great lengths to try and prove your point.


Dan I thought at first when I was reading your last response you understood where I was coming from when you explained we own our own businesses and make our own decisions on how to run them. But then you continued by saying I was egotistical for doing so and low balling my price to keep my job. Your kind words have made me rethink my decision. I feel you have my best interest at heart and are only trying to help me. Thank you for your understanding and wise words. Such mature words can only come from the heart.

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

You seem to ignore the reality that "reasonable" is often in the "eye of the beholder". And can a "reasonable request" actually be the product of an unreasonable decision? And consider just how how often unreasonable decisions are made by ill-informed people!

While you point out, Dan, that what Babs is doing is grounds for dismissal, so what? Owners don't need any grounds to dismiss contract laborers! And as contract labor, Babs is running her own business and her first obligation is to her business!!!!


And perhaps she should consider that, unbeknownst to her, there are too few one-eyed, one-horned, flying Purple People Eaters frequenting the place and the owner believes that the contest will increase their numbers?


I believe that Babs voiced no concern about the judging, but rather a concern about how the losers, which defines most every participant, will perceive the experience regardless of how it is handled. And that leaves her concerned about the possibility of a backlash against her and her business!


Well, you have already said more than "all you can say"! And it's not our place to question Bab's level of "security", since she voiced no concern about losing the gig.

And consider, Dan, that the owner has done a lot of thinking about contests and the effect that it will have on HER business, I am sure that Babs will do whatever is necessary to produce the outcome for HER business that is most desirable. For all we know Bab is independently wealthy and couldn't care less about losing the job!

Sometimes folks start a thread or use an existing thread to vent. I'll allow Bab the opportunity to do so without rebuking her; she's always there for everyone else!

Not to get in the middle of this

But any KJ is just hired entertainment. SIMPLE .... As a KJ you have two choices - do what the boss tells you or not. The NOT part has its own set of consequences depending on your relationship with the owner. Is being FIRED an option for not running a contest ..I would say if the owner really wants one ...YES.

It is why I suggested a contest like I did...no one really gets hurt and it is FUN ..or you could make it fun.

FLIP SIDE is if the owner wants to run a real contest with BIG BIG BIG BUCKS that could work, impartial judges , limited to a few weeks, certain contest time which allows for OPEN KARAOKE every night. It could be a great exerience ?

At the risk of repeating myself

And while Babs liked your idea, Jamkaraoke, no one knows what the owner's concept is for a contest beyond what he has shared with Babs, and she in turn with us. So we're left relying upon Bab's judgment that it is a bad idea

I do something similar to what you suggested, Jamkaroke, at every one of my shows to encourage increased singer participation! And, frankly, it is NOT a contest!

There is no argument that a poorly run contest is SUICIDE for any karaoke show.
Feelings get hurt, people cry FOUL PLAY and usually a no win situation for the KJ and the regular singers.

But a properly run contest with impartial judges and a nice PRIZE at the end couldbe a good thing as long as it allows for OPEN KARAOKE for non participants.

I mean AMERICAN IDOL is just the largest KARAOKE contest in the world

I do like the raffle idea. Can you give more details on it or is it simply just a ticket every time a person sings. I'm thinking it should be a ticket to only solo singers?

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

Does that mean DDan gets to be Simon. Sorry, I had to Dan. No offense

Well, let's say the owner of a bar goes up to the band he hired for the night and says, "we have a young crowd tonight. I need you to play all modern rock and beat box a little to keep these kids drinking." Assuming the band even knew that type of music, would they dramatically alter their format, and disappoint anyone who came to the venue as part of the "band following" to see them perform? No way, of course not.

A KJ is an entertainer with a format/style of his choosing, and a following that comes to see him because they like his format. There is nothing wrong with refusing to change your format. But just like a band, you must accept that there are other KJs out there who may be willing to do what the owner wants, and he may decide to hire them instead.

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

Tovmod, we'll have to agree to disagree here. Without customers you HAVE no business. My first responsibility is to the person who hires and pays me. The owner isn't asking something like the KJ perform in the nude or anything morally or legally reprehensible. I don't think because a KJ hosts a contest at the boss's behest reflects badly on the KJ as much as the venue.

As I said previously, I've had lots of DJ clients who make requests of me which I feel are not in the best interest of the overall success of the party. I certainly make my feelings known, but at the end of the day the customer wants what the customer wants. If for some reason I do not want to comply, that's my choice to refer them to another company.


First of all, anyone entering a contest knows there will be winners and losers. If your judging is beyond reproach and the KJ removes themselves totally from the judging process, how does that reflect badly on the host and their business? Again, there could also be a raffle pool which all losers are put into and one consolation prize is drawn.


If any KJ believes because they host a contest the results are going to reflect on them - and not the venue, judges, etc. - IMHO their fear is misplaced.

All of my suggestions were offered in the best and most productive spirit. I think there are many KJs who are great hosts and entertainers, but don't quite have a grip on the business end. If we are not producing revenue for our venues, there's no reason for us to be there. EVERYTHING we do has to be bottom-line oriented. As Donald Trump says, "It's not personal. It's just business".

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[font=Lucida Console]DangerousKaraoke.com[/font]
[font=Lucida Console]"Sing for the day, sing for the moment, sing for the time of your life!"[/font]

I've been asked two times in the past few years to run a contest. Each time, I told the owner that the possible damage to my reputation would not allow me to do anything but run the actual "karaoke" part of it. She would have to arrange the format of the contest and acquire the impartial judges. Each time I heard no more about it.

DD and there are clients not worth having. Whoever said the customer is always right was an idiot.

I've fired clients. Some are not worth the hassles and problems.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

.....let me just add, Babs's customers, are mostly regulars, and the majority of them would think they are the best, and should win. Why ruin their dreams, and cause bad feelings for future karaoke.........Babs treats every one of her singers(including me), like we're some kind of celebrity.....and she wants us to always feel that way.........which makes us winners every time we go there......and you just can't improve ont that....

Wow, you just can't improve on that; it pretty much says it all.

But let me add this for Dan's benefit. There is IMHO no benefit to a venue or a karaoke host to run a contest for their regulars. So why are contests held? Of course, to bring in new people.

Now it should be obvious, as this poster suggested, that those who enter a contest believe they should win, while only 1-3 people will actually do so. And what happens if most of the newcomers never return after the contest? Then the venue gave away money for no long term gain. And, as Babs said, the contests in her area don't take long term business away from her.

No, your first responsibility is to YOUR business. And in running YOUR business properly your customers will, in turn, be successful and YOU WILL have customers. And if you don't run YOUR business properly you won't have customers and it will fail!

If you are suggesting that contests don't create ill will, I will have to disagree. If one accepts that you cannot please all of the people all of the time, how many will be displeased with the contest's results?

If there are people who are displeased with the results, are you suggesting, Dan, that the their ire will be directed only towards the venue and judges? Why should one believe that the dissatisfied participant is going to discriminate in such a way that their disappointment won't be directed towards the KJ?

Lastly, I suggest you read Johnny's post again. Aside from the wisdom inherent in his post, he is actually a potential participant in the actual proposed contest and knows the other potential participants from among Bab's regulars