Karaoke Forums

Let me ask you old pros about the proper way to set up the sound at a KJ gig. I’ve been hitting up many venues over the last few months and I’ve been gigging a bit myself. I’ve noticed that the majority of the KJ’s set up behind the speakers and the singer (and the audio monitor if any was used).

My question is, if possible would you set your mixer and such out front, facing the staging area?

Mixing from behind the speakers and the singers is a pain and very difficult at times. Setting it up like a live band sound man is so much easier to control the sound and mix.

So, am I off base here because of the venues and such, and this is just not feasible in most cases?

I’m thinking of getting a few 100 foot speaker cables so if I have the opportunity I can get out front and have better control over the mix….

Am I crazy thinking I can do this? For karaoke?

Mark

Mark, that's what I do, sit at "Front of House," as the band sound men call it. I'm sure the reason it is uncommon for KJs are basically:
1) floor space at venues is sometimes constrained
2) cable path for your audio, video, and power might not be easy or quick to setup
3) maybe they never thought of it
I started doing this when I was still just doing a fill-in night for another KJ who was over-booked, and he threw an absolute fit. "You can't control the singers!" "How will they know where you are?" "I like everyone to see me on the stage." Well, those are all silly reasons IMO, and I have not had any of those issues.

The advantages I see are:
1) easier to mix, as you mention
2) singers don't walk onto / in front of the stage to bring me song slips anymore
3) people feel more free to hang out and talk to me than when I was sitting on the stage
4) fewer distractions for the singers, e.g. if my friends come in and drink and have a good time with me while I am KJing, they are not near the stage with me, they are at the back of the room where I mix from

The venue I am at happens to have an audio snake for their bands to use, so I just use that to get my mic signals from the stage, and send my return signals up to the amplifiers. If an installed snake was not available I would put one of my own there and leave it, because it does take a bunch of time on a ladder to get one up, and as I work there 2 - 3 nights a week it's worth it.

I also put in a coax TV cable, probably didn't cost me $25, from FoH to the stage for my lyrics screen.

While 100 foot speaker cables will work, they are not necessarily the cheapest or easiest way. Also you are going to need to get your mic signals from the stage anyway unless you use all wireless microphones.

Here is a really inexpensive, good-quality audio snake you can buy, they have it in several lengths from 20 to 150 feet and it has 8 "sends" or microphone jacks, and 4 "returns" for your amplifier signals to go from the mixer/FoH rack up to the stage where your amps would be. http://www.audiopile.net/products/Stage ... heet.shtml

If you get an audio snake get one that is longer than you think you will need. You will want to have plenty to reach up to the ceiling, come back down, possibly go over doorways, whatever. Small ones like this 8x4 channel unit are not very heavy and you won't hate yourself if you have 50 extra feet of cable.

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

I will only work in front of the speakers.
I also use a multicore for larger venues.

I planned on doing that for the first time at my last contest. I have a snake, had a separate rolling rack with my power amps, everything ready.....except for one thing. I forgot about video.

Does anyone know if you can send composite video over a balanced line? I wouldn't think it would be a good thing, but I have never tried it.

It would be nice if there was a snake that had a couple of runs of coax in it....

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

Nice! I've sent them an e-mail to discuss my needs. I'm going to get a snake and have this option available and push hard for this in every case. I'm not happy having to walk out there to ensure a good mix, or to rely on others (tin ears, etc.) to help me out.

I can see that if you’re DJ’ing a car show, outside say… This might be over kill; somewhat stay put sound levels, a bit of announcing here and there, but doing KJ work, with the ever changing singers coming up to bat, constant tweaking is a given.

Saw another KJ at a local venue last night… No vocal effects, music to low most of the night, muddy and the mix was just terrible. They had a prefect opportunity to set-up out front if they had the snake. Live and learn.

Thx guys, very helpful as always.

PS, maybe you could post up a photo of your snake on it’s run, etc.?

Mark

I'll see if I can get some pictures with my camera phone, but it's just a cable that runs along the AC duct on the ceiling, nothing special about it. The "stage box," big metal part with the connectors, is a few inches off the floor near the back of the stage, and the "fan tail," where the big cable splits into ordinary connectors, rolls up and goes on a hook at FoH when it is not in use. They look just like the pictures on the Audiopile web site.

If the venue will let you install it for as long as you have the gig, that is the way to go. It would take me 10 minutes on a ladder to put it up and take it down every night if I had to do that. Fortunately "my venue" wanted one for their bands to use also, but if they did not buy one I would have put my own there.

If your venue happens to have bands and such also, you might ask the owner if they would like to install one before you buy it. Bands would need more connectors than karaoke since they have more inputs from the stage, and also may need more returns for additional monitor mixes.

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

It occurred to me that there might be an XLR-->RCA cable. Sure enough. Now I just have to see how the signal survives a 125-foot run (100 snake, 15 one end, 10 the other).

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

It should be okay. I've run that long via the yellow RCA and S-Video with no issues at all....

Monoprice has the XLR to Composite cables:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/subde ... p_id=10244

Nice to know! Thx for the heads up on this.

If I had my way, I'd set up out front at every gig. However the fact of the matter is, most clubs that I play at just simply do not have the room for that. Even those that do don't want me taking up that much room so I usually end up setting up behind the PA. Just means I have to take a walk out front every so often to hear how things are going. Quite honestly though, I've gotten pretty good at mixing from behind the PA (if I do say so myself). Especially once I've gotten used to a room, I can compensate pretty well and make a pretty good run of it. Walk out from time to time to confirm what I'm hearing and usually it's good to go.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

I made a XLR to composite to run video over my snake, it worked ok, but my soldering wasn't the greatest. This pic was a bit fuzzy on my 100' 'snake. Im gonna order some of the factory made ones. Thanks for the link ENZOAB

If you have the area to be able to do it, then out front is my preferred method. I have only worked a few clubs that actually had an area that either was designated for or had enough room to do so - usually it's a space issue. I am off to the side of the speakers at worst. I won't mix behind a speaker, I will find a way to be to a point I can hear the mains.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

One thing about going from mixing from the stage / behind the PA, to out front, is you put up with the old way for so long, suddenly it's like you don't even have to work to get great sound for almost every singer. Shy, screamer, big group, whatever. It's so easy because you can actually hear what you're doing without putting on headphones, walking around, or guessing.

The monitors will no longer be where you can hear them, of course; so keep this in mind. I still use my headphones to listen to the monitor mix once in a while, and I have started running the monitors way, way louder than I used to because I find that it makes most singers much more comfortable and they are no longer blasting me in the face all night.

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

You bet.

I use wireless mics, I like to hand each singer the microphone. It's karaoke not a band there are only 3 or 4 sources to mix at the most.

But unlike a band, which has the same singer(s) all night long, karaoke is an ever changing mix of every type of singer on the planet. In my opinion, if you want to present the best mix possible, at all times, with each and every singer, it's best to have a clear audio path to your ears to achive this. Achiving this while standing behind the speakers is difficult at best. Bring in a singers CD-G's, etc, and it's gets even more dicey... In my opinion.

Also, I sometimes mix many items at once; 2 to 4 mics, CD-G player or PC, audio monitor and sometimes a guitar, spoons, etc.

It certainly doesn't work to mix from the front in a lot of cases, mostly because of the venue.

In the end, you'd never see a band sound person mix from the rear, at least I've never seen it.