Karaoke Forums

You may have to read the actual suit. There are two claims. One is the trademark thing and one is the unfair competition thing. It is detailed as a seperate part. The unfair competition as they are describing it is the loss of business from KJs conterfeiting copies or purchasing conterfeit copies instead of purchasing legitimate copies from SC.

So no--not suing on behalf of KJs and not making a specific claim against anyone named for distributing conterfeit copies. But they ARE suing for the use of the copies as being unfair competition.

NOT related to what is in SCs suit, I would still disagree with your statement that pirates don't copy and distribute stolen music. Not every pirate got their hard drive off of EBAY. Some got them from local KJs who made multiple copies of their own drive and sold them. Others make multiple copies of the same drive and multi-rig. There have been some file sharing sites around where people could download every SC out there for free or just a small fee and then they perpetuated those throughout the KJ community. Others make discs for singers. So copying and distributing songs is a big part of the pirate thing although not one of the specific things being sued over at this time.

Wow. They really do shoot the moon on trademark and unfair competition but avoid the copyright issue. Interesting take on all that stuff. I imagine what they're going to need to do now is prove that KJ's are losing business to the pirates and those KJS are 100% legit else the argument falls short.

Did the Virgina suits settle out already?

My guess is that the "unfair competition" cases are against those that they busted selling hard drives on craigslist and such.

Follow the links above and read the filings. They are stating that the legit KJs are impacted by the pirates and are losing business. This in turn causes SC to lose business.

Brilliant. However it has to hold up to the test that a legit KJ has lost business *and* caused them to not purchase SC products because of that lost business.

Here is the actual claim under the Unfair Competition section--nothing about KJs losing revenue, just SC:

Page 38 #165
"The Defendant's use of the Sound Choice Marks in this fashion would have inured to the benefit of the Plaintiffs if the Defendants had legitimately acquired genuine Sound Choice discs instead of counterfeiting them or acquiring counterfeit copies, in that each of the Plaintiffs would have received revenue from such sales.

#166
Because theh Plaintiffs have been denied this revenur, they have each been damaged by the Defendant's use."

Again, there has never been a case that has gone to trial based upon the premises utilized by SC.

And while I would love to see the case to to trial, and would hope that there are precedents set that will actually benefit legit operators, like many others I do not believe that SC true goal is to end up in court. If they do, there is a risk that they just might lose altogether. Rather, SC is doing just fine extracting settlement payments from the accused and dropping the suits against them in the process!

So, in effect, SC is sustaining pirates rather than curtailing the pirate's businesses!

Probably a reason for this. They settle because they are in the wrong.

As far as them "sustaining pirates", I think maybe their goal may be to sustain themselves with gaining monies lost.

I am hoping further in the future, that these "pirates" that settled with SC, are going to have to settle with other manu's also. If I was a manu of karaoke songs, I would be watching with great interest.

Most states have 'unfair competition' laws. If anyone is really concerned about piracy, they can file against the pirates in their area as a KJ.

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Kevin

Who is the "they" that you are referring to when you stated that "they settle because they are wrong"?

If you are suggesting that the premise of my statement is dependent upon the guilt or innocence of the accused, you have missed my point altogether. My point is that there has never been a case filed in the past that is similar to SC's and that the cases that have proceeded to trial regarding trademark matters were based upon criteria unlike the criteria that SC has used! Again, SC'S suit enters into virgin territory -- territory that will produce precedent setting decisions if the case goes to trial.

Right On! And who does that help? You? Me? SC? The Pirates?

Until the time, if ever, that comes to pass, any pirate who settles with SC can claim they are in "compliance" with SC and imply that they are 100% legal! And if they never have to settle for much, if anything, with any other manufacturer, what does that mean for the legit operator?


That is not likely a prudent tactic when considering the economics vs the potential gain. And what if the defendant loses and files bankruptcy; then what has the plaintiff gained? And even if the plaintiff loses and doesn't file bankruptcy, there is a cost to collecting on a judgment, and that could go into the thousands.

And wouldn't the plaintiff have to prove what damage he has incurred? That maybe a challenge unto itself! You also need to consider the level of certainty that is inherent in the facts and amount of facts that must be accumulated and entered into evidence and the cost of doing so.

IMHO, chances are such a plaintiff would become a persona non grata, locally! It seems to me only the person who has plenty of money and finds the principal of the matter more important that other considerations would enter into such an endeavor!

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Dave's not here.

the 180,000 songs you are seeing is a cached site from before I put the 220,000 songs. it says no number. I didn't say I use a CAVS system I use SCDG discs which are CAVS technology. And NEOG which is RSQ technology along the same lines as cavs.

In answer to your question how did I know sc would target me? Because I have more discs than any kj in my area & people have stated they would get SC to shut me down. I have witnesses that have overheard a certain someone saying they told SC about me. and they like some of you assumed I used a cavs system because I use cavs discs. but they were wrong I know kj's that use cavs systems & they suck. always breaking down, versions are awful & virtually no support from cavs.

An update to the lawsuit 6 people were dismissed without prejudice, 1 was dismissed with prejudice so far.

"Without Prejudice" means that SC reserves the right to bring it back up again... IMHO, this is an indicator of a weak case on their part....

"WITH Prejudice" means that SC cannot bring up this case against the person again... it's dead forever.

Keep in mind that this is a "Voluntary Dismissal" meaning that Sound Choice is the one to dismiss it.... they either settled or decided it wasn't worth pursuing, but in any case, it was NOT dismissed by a judge.

i.e. SC filed the suit and the only way it can be "unfiled voluntarily" (dropped) is by SC.

It was NOT a dismissal ordered by a judge.


The actual order is here:
http://dkusa.com/pdf/SC_FL_dismiss.pdf

So the 6 were settlements, I assume?
And I assume the 1 was probably another "mistake"?

Don't know. But there's an address for each one. Might be interesting to write them and find out. Doesn't necessarily mean that there was a settlement per se, just that they dropped it so I try not to read too much into it. Plus' "settlement" doesn't mean that SC was paid anything either. You'd really have to find out from the defendants.

Sure would be interesting to know!

From "those in the know", the names removed by SC from the Florida filing are all folks who settled!

Also from "those in the know", no benefit has developed for the legit Florida operators who had hoped to see pirates leaving the business because of the SC "crackdown". The legit operators now realize the SC suits have nothing to do with abating piracy and everything to do with enriching SC. All of the pirates are still operating with pirated hard drives, but drives that no longer contain pirated Sound Choice tracks!

So over 50 shows each week that are being operated by the pirates who settled are still being operated by the very same pirates! Not a single show was lost by a pirate who settled. Or put another way, no legit operator benefited from by SC's actions specifically against the pirates who settled with them!

Golly! Take a look at my shocked face!

I mean, how could this happen? Isn't SC & KIAA out to stop piracy & make the world a better & more profitable place for all the loyal & legitimate operators?

Are they simply going to make all the pirates in WallOfSound's city legitimate? Is there no reward for his promoting the KIAA? Or benefit to being a member?

Oh woe is me, such a surprise and a turn of the screw to heart!

And I was just about to join to reap those higher paying, recently vacated gigs!

Please don't despair.

Now I am sorry that I said anything.

Hark, perhaps, somewhere, someday some legit operator will pick up a job because a pirate left the business. Eventually it will happen, but not likely because of SC lawsuits!

Oh, perchance to dream!

Oh happy days.

Interesting turn of events since "insaneKJ" is from Florida. Any bets that he was the investigator?