Karaoke Forums

Wouldn't they have to pay to legalize each rig? So if they had 4 rigs they would pay closer to $26,000 in order to keep them all? The $6500 is to buy a set of discs to make the rig 1:1 so they would have to buy a set of discs for each rig. I don't know what happens when they can't afford to legalize each one. Don't know if they still end up paying a fine or what. But I guess with the payment plan then maybe it would still be affordable to multi-rig.

Not quite Bruce,

You're counting only gross income, not net income.

20 Shows per week @ 150.00 = $3,000.00
20 shows host fee @ $75.00 -$1,500.00
Equipment moving @ @25.00 -$500.00
Gas @2.85/gal ave. 400 miles -95.00
(assuming just about 10 miles each trip, 2 trips each (1 for set up & 1 for tear down @ 12mpg)

This would leave a balance of approximately $905/week or $47,060.00/year.

A far cry from $150,000.00

AND, this doesn't include the amortization of sound equipment, and because that is subjective on how much the "average" sound system costs or consists of.

AND the big factor here is that if they are pirating everything, there are no costs for music, so that's a big zero in the equation anyway.

And, if the pirate is going to pay SC $6,500.00 PER SYSTEM for music, or $130,000.00 they are NOT still making money BUT the sting is only on 1 year's income and it will take a minimum of 3 years to break even on that cost.


Like I said in an earlier post regarding SC being sued for pirating; "If the penalty is less than profits you make, you'd continue doing it too."

They would have to pay for the rigs that do not have back up disc.

_________________
No venue to big or too small. From your den to the local club or event, we have the music most requested. Great sounding system!

I don't have information either way, but it would seem to me the "pirate profile" would inlcude either A.) people that are genuinely ignorant of copyright law or B.) people aware but willling to to disregard copyright law. Those that are truly ignorant of the law would likely scoff at paying $6,000 to become "compliant," and retire from the business after realizing the sizeable investment required to remain in business. The pirate who knows exactly what they're doing may be more willing to pony up the "compliance fee," but I'd be willing to wager that the ones that only have one or two shows a week may decline, citing cost/benefit reasons.

So like I said I have no proof, but it seems logical that at least the small-time one or two gigs a week types would likely not pay the money and cease operations. I would assume that would be a good amount of piracy reduction.

That maybe true regarding Bruce's post, but beyond that statement everything else in your post in based upon assumptions:



Perhaps there is only one rig and it is used for 5 shows per week?
Perhaps the operator runs the shows himself and gets $225 for weekend shows, and $200 for weekday shows?
Perhaps there are two weekend and three weekday jobs involved?

Gross Weekly Revenue--------------------------------------- $1050
Gas for gigs (@2.93 x 200 total miles
@ 25 miles to the gallon)--------------------------------------------6
New music purchases per week----------------------------------10
Advertising and Promotion--------------------------------_____20
--------Net Weekly "Contribution Margin"----------------------------$1014
--------Net Annual "Contribution Margin" -------------------------$50,000 to Cover the $6500 due to SC


C.S: Of all of your assumptions, I have hardest time specifically accepting your previous calculation since it implies/assumes that it takes 20 rigs to run 20 shows, which is not likely the case. And, therefore, I also have a problem with your calculation of how long it will actually take to break even on the SC "investment". IMHO, 20 shows can conceivably be run by 3 rigs, and that would only come to a total of $19,500 due to SC, not $130,000!



So true, so true!

Well, we can only go by what HAS happened in terms of discussing the direct impact SC has had on piracy wherever they have initiated their efforts.

1. SC is now concentrating on the "bigger fish", so it may be hard to generalize about operators with just one or two shows per week
2. Of the big fish they have "fried" in Florida, there is no indication that anyone is going out of business
3. In fact, SC has experienced some substantial settlements in Fl.
4. As I have stated, and stand by, there are over 50 shows run by pirates that have been formally accused by SC and who are now in "compliance" with SC
5. Those now in "compliance" with SC are still using thousands of illegal tracks produced by other manufacturers

As to your assumptions about the knowledge of IP law possessed by pirates:
- IMHO it doesn't matter if the pirate is or isn't aware of the law. If the cost of paying SC doesn't make economic sense, regardless of the knowledge that the accused has of the law, the accused should go out of business.
- So, for example, what does someone do who runs two shows a week, has $3000 invested in equipment but has an illegal library of 50000 tracks and now has to pay SC $6500 and eliminate the illegal SOUND CHOICE TRACKS, but only the ILLEGAL SC tracks? While I think that the answer could "depend" on several factors we might not be aware of, more likely than not, that operator has every reason to stay in business and should happily pay SC.

WHY? Well, clearly his pirated library has allowed him to pick up and develop two good jobs a week. And doesn't he have a LESSER risk than someone just starting out in business who has to buy $3500 worth of equipment and a library as well, but doesn't even have a job and has no guarantee he will ever find one? Such an newbie could easily find himself in the position that he has over $5000 invested and NOTHING TO SHOW FOR IT.

At least the pirate who is already in business could be earning $15000 or more a year from his two jobs and ONLY by paying off SC can he continue to do so. And because he chooses to pay off SC, he has the opportunity to continue in business and to grow his business, if he so desires.

So, if someone in the karaoke business truly understands the economics and the risk, I don't think he'll give up 2 karaoke jobs a week because he has to pay SC $6500 in order to avoid going to court! And that's what the $6500 is really for - avoiding court! And, theoretically, if he doesn't pay SC they will take him to court even if he goes out of business. Though I personally doubt that SC will ever end up in court in that regard!

To my way of thinking, it's more likely that someone will give up karaoke because they haven't been able to find and/or keep 2 jobs a week, which has absolutely nothing to do with SC's activities. On the other hand, might it be that they had they went into business aware of SC's activities and therefore had expectations before going into business that SC's efforts would be of help in reducing piracy in their locale?

And, to the contrary, they now realize that even after SC's local efforts there are still plenty of pirates that remain in business, whether accused by SC or not? And some of who have been accused by SC remain in business and are"IN COMPLIANCE" with SC, but with no other manufacturer!

so if you copy your cdgs onto a hard drive for your show....it's ok......but a singer who copies songs from his cdgs to a mix that he wants to sing when he goes out(instead of bringing several original cdgs for a careless kj to scratch up) is a pirate?
some people on this site love to call the kettle black......when they are nothing but the pot.......or smoking it.......

I love SC cdgs, and I own more than most kjs, and like many, I continue to use songs that they discontinued for not having rights to said songs.....so the damage continues....... ..........I also called them pirate bas@@@@@ to lure you out Rum..........how far up their a$$ are you? Could explain the head pain..........

I loved your answer. To elaborate on this. The FBI for the most part would most likely think that karaoke/dj problems are super low priority. In addition to this, when they do finally get involved, there is a min. of 2yrs. put into the investigation on an average.

The lawsuit against the Karaoke Kandy Store (Lightyearmusic.com , cheapkaraoke.com) in Ohio is the first I have seen against an actual
karaoke retail store.

For years I have heard people all the time talking about getting loaded hard drives without the disc from that company. I personally think that there is so much weirdness about the karaoke market. Yet have to back Soundchoice in their efforts to stop people from having loaded drives with their material on it.

Don't worry, I agree with some people that Soundchoice has been a bit abrasive in the past. I remember when my brother bought tons of disc from them and wanted to make a copy just so he could protect his huge investment. They told him that he could not. That's what kj's don't like to hear. So I am glad that they are concentrating on busting the people that have loaded drives with NO DISC. Bravo from me!

By the way, I don't see people like that as criminals. I kinda feel bad they are getting in trouble. But I do hope people understand that piracy kills the market more than anyone could EVER imagine.

P.S I do not belong to the MMA, WWF, Boxing federation.. So please be nice if anyone wishes to respond.. I am not the fighting type

The lawsuit in Ohio against the Karaoke Kandy Store (lightyearmusic.com, cheapkaraoke.com) is very interesting. Everyone I have ever seen with
computers that were purchased from that store has all had Sounchoice on it.
Even Chartbuster, Pop Hits Monthly, Pocket Songs, etc.. and none of those manufacturers gave them permission to sell their product loaded on drives without the disc. Yet a few weeks ago when my friend called the store that was just sued, they said that they had a digital license. Of course all the karaoke disc manufacturer must of laughed at that. Wow on the lawsuit. If they did all that is said in that lawsuit, then BRAVO to Soundchoice for having the balls to finally fight back.

Remember, no matter what license issues that any karaoke manufacturer has with the record labels. It will never compare to people who point blank PIRATE music onto drives and sell them to the whole world.

Now, in all fairness to loyal karaoke people. Sounchoice and all the others need to come up with a program where you can buy one set of disc and as many certificates as needed for all your systems at a discounted rate. That is fair. Do you think that a company that has 10 computers in their office would ever want to pay FULL PRICE for every computer to have Windows XP on it. NOPE!

1. The reason why you don't see Soundchoice fighting other namebrands is because they do not own the rights to those trademarks. It is up to Pop Hits Monthly, Chartbuster, etc. to fight back too.

2. As much as I commend Soundchoice for fighting back. I have to agree with this guy that questions their motives, and for good reason. I do know that they are settling with people in order to keep their heads above water, pay off lawyers, etc.. and keep the fight moving along. I hate knowing that they are just letting people settle and go on with their business. If the FBI had been involved, all those kj's would of been gone.

Take the lawsuit against the Karaoke Kandy Store, (lightyearmusic.com, cheapkaraoke.com) I cannot begin to tell you how many people I know of that bought from that store and have loaded machines with soundchoice, pop hits monthly, chartbuster and do not own one disc with it. Now if Soundchoice was truly interested in protecting the public, they would not settle with a retailer like that if they did do all that they are accused of. They should take it all the way and make an example of them. there are too many innocent kj's out there that bought from that store that should not have to worry about getting in trouble if a store sold them unauthorized copies of soundchoice material.

Tovmod said:


Sorry, my bad.... I was interpreting it as "20 Rigs" not "20 shows....

and now that I look at my math.... I see that it's a mixture of both....

I stand corrected...

20 rigs each doing a show just 2 nights a week is $312,000.00 per year gross.

coocoo4karaoke said:


It will "ALWAYS compare" because it is the same thing....

What you're saying is that you will turn a blind eye to Sound Choice or any manufacturer not licensing (read that as "pirating") music "point blank" then putting it on to cd's and selling them to the whole world. (i.e. selling to YOU)

Because they do sell to the whole world... Have you made enough money to be able to afford a 25,000 sq. ft. recording studio? Have you been able to "invest 18 MILLION dollars" in anything?

It's all so ironic.... SC is forcing these pirates to buy $6500 "sets" of music and I'll bet that a very good percentage of that same music was never licensed for karaoke use in the first place.... i.e. selling pirated music & lyrics to the pirates.... what a hoot!

Actually I'm saying they're no different than the people SC is going after, legit or not. I know singers who all divvy up who'll buy the latest release then copy the songs they want from their friends. That's the casual pirate.

I'm actually not castigating it, I'm just noting that we've all seen it, accepted it as something that happens and there is little recourse for the manufacturers with them. They'll need different methods to combat this.

I posted something yesterday, but it is gone. I noticed it looks like this dan sterns is tied up in the same information as the Ohio thing. When I first looked at it, I thought Dan was from Ohio.

But when you read on the KIAA website the Ohio lawsuit is against the Karaoke Kandy Store in Ohio. Also known as cheapkaraoke and lightyearmusic.

This is one lawsuit that I hope they do not settle on. If an actual retailer is selling loaded drives with SC content on it without the 1;1 copy ratio. Then they need to be made the BIGGEST example of all.

I for one will lose ALL FAITH if they settle with a store of all people. That would totally tell me that this is all about money and not about protecting the kj's out there that have purchased disc for each of their systems. Thanks for letting me hop on the piracy news train!

The people who put a compilation together because they don't want to bring all their cd's out to the show should easily fall under fair use.. I would not worry about anyone calling someone like that a pirate. That is just ridiculous

Sorry, I did not mean it exactly like that. I too question the whole thing about them just settling.. If people truly cared about piracy, then they would just stop it in it's tracks. Not settle and let them go on their way like that. Too many legit kj's harmed by this.

But who am I to tell SC not to make money. I don't like the way it is going down. But still 100% support the fact that they are trying to protect their business. And yes, if they have any unlicensed music, may the record industry slam them hard too!

So you don't have a problem using pirated (unlicensed) music on your system because it's "between SC and the writers?"

That's a convenient way to disassociate yourself and justify using it.

Get ready to lose faith!
This is totally about money and has NOTHING whatsoever to do with protecting legit KJ's. SC has ZERO interest in what happens to legit KJ'z. After all, they've already paid for their discs. Why should SC care what happens to them?
Don't get me wrong. SC is entirely entitled to get what's due them monetarily, but don't fool yourself into believing that they have some other altruistic motive for doing so, such as "helping" legit KJ's, because they most certainly do not!

Folks SC isn't in the Karaoke hosting business, they're in the selling Karaoke disk business. Don't for a moment think they're out to protect or promote what *we* consider their biggest customers, the KJs.

Anything SC does is about protecting their business. If we get a benefit of reduced competition then that's just a bonus for us, one SC doesn't quite care about. They're only picking on the KJs because they're the most likely source of revenue for those collections.