Karaoke Forums

OK so I had a show Saturday night and before it even starts I have a man ask if I would play music from HIS discs that he brought to the show? So I look at them and they are home burnt discs , some Chartbuster and some SC. So I explain the legalities of playin certain music in a public forum and he goes NUTS! I finally got him to look at the books that I brought with me and he found all but maybe 2 of the songs that he wanted.

So my question is how would you have handled this?

I feel with everthing happening in the karaoke world today that unless it is a legal copy of a company allowing public broadcast of there music then there is NO WAY it is playing at my show!

But I also know that alot of KJ's will play singers discs

I will just play the singers disc, as long as they are not offensive to the show. If you have the capability to play singers discs, you're going to run into this situation, because singers will rip 10 or so songs onto one disc, instead of carrying around 10 discs. I don't have a problem with it, but, that's just my opinion.

Rosario
Serenity Now Karaoke

OK so if you play a disc that they burnt themselves at your show are you then responsible for that music? I mean if it turns out they snagged it from the net then what?

I have a lady that brings the same buned disc every week, and every week I tell her that I will not play her disc, but that I have ALL of the songs on her disc in the SAME version except for ONE.

Inevitably, EVERY WEEK she complains about it, but ends up giving in. All she complains about is the ONE song I don't have. I've even told her that I would buy that song for her, but I can't find it anywhere, which is even more reason NOT to play hers.

It is the cardinal rule of running a karaoke show -> YOU HAVE TO STAY IN CONTROL or else the inmates will run the asylum!!!

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C Mc
KJ, FL

To "me", the difference is that the singer has the disc for "personal use", and, it's not MY disc. I am just facilitating "their" personal use. I would NOT copy it and use it for my show, therefore, when I am finished playing the disc, it is immediately returned to the singer. EXAMPLE: At my last show, I had some people from South Korea who brought their own discs, and asked if I could play them. I had NO idea who the manufacturer was, the entire disc was in Korean, I played it, and the singers had a blast. To me, that is what my job as a karaoke host is all about, to make the singers happy. I'm not stealing music, and am not going to question "possible" return customers as to whether or not they are pirating their music. This attitude may be wrong, but it is MY take on this issue.

Rosario

But that could be the one song that gets you snagged into one of Sound Choice's Lawsuits. I'll risk losing the singer than losing the show by refusing to play any outside discs unless they are originals.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Since you do play CDGS , the 1st thing I would've done is check my library for those exact versions. ( personally I think the singer should do that).

Since you had all but 2 -- I would return his discs and explain that you will use your own. for many reasons:
Legalities --(which I think we are all blowing out of proportion)

Disc could be scratched ? or Dirty ? or ripped/copied at an inferior rate to the original...who knows

It is my understanding that if the venue has paid it's ASCAP. BMI, SESAC license fees for karaoke, then the license is a blanket license which covers all the songs written by the members of those associations, enabling them to be "performed" (read as 'played') publicly. So why then could a KJ not play a track that is covered in the venue's license? After all they are merely publicly performing the copyrighted work, and the venue has a license that allows the public performance of that track. I'm with srnitynow in regards to the KJ not having the track as part of their catalogue.

I think I'll take my chances with being sued by SC, or any other manu, as MY library is 100% legal (as far as I can tell). I have a 1-1 ratio. If they filmed the screen while I was playing someone elses disc, I could prove that it was NOT mine, and that it is NOT part of my library. I'd let them search my library to find the song, as far as I'm concerned, if I don't possess the track, and am not "taking money out of their pocket", I'm not doing anything wrong. If that means that I'm going to be sued, then I guess I'll have to deal with that when it happens, but until then, I (personally) see nothing wrong with playing someone elses disc. I hate ALL of these pirate threads, so I'll just leave my answer as I have stated, and have NO desire to debate my decision any further. EVERYONE is free to DISAGREE with me, as I said, this is just MY OPINION.

Rosario
Serenity Now Karaoke

Thought you handled it good. For someone to not checkout your list/book first is just plain lazy, & rude.

It's an easy answer for me. I use a Thinkpad laptop and replaced the disc player with a secondary hard drive for more space. I have no disc player, therefor can't play customers discs. Only once has anyone ever complained as 98% of the time I have a version of their songs anyway.

I think if you've been in the biz for more than a few years, chances are you have the most popular songs and by the sounds of it, based on discussions about quality, many have the better (S/C, C/B) versions. That should eliminate having to play others' discs. However, I have an older couple that comes in and they want me to play their discs EVERY TIME. They NEVER sing off my system and I have probably the best selection of music in a 50-mile radius. So go figure, I play their stuff for them every single time. The only discs I have on my table are ones that belong to others; I don't carry my two HUGE cases of discs with me as I am computer based.

Many people without a doubt are buying burns from other hosts in our area (I know this for a fact, as several have confided in me about having done it). I am not going to question the singers about where they get their music, however, because many DO have originals at home and just make the "carry" copies.

Just keep everyone happy....If I find that a version someone prefers is one I can buy, I will buy it; however, then we come down to one singer's ONE song...

So, yes, I'll play it.

I make some of my own CDG tracks from karaoke backing tracks that I buy online. If I go through the trouble of creating a favorite song of mine in karaoke format, I expect a KJ to be able to play it. If they don't have the ability or the desire to do so; I look for other places to sing at.

Does not happen to me very often
but I feel that if the singer has gone to the trouble of making a compilation
I will make them feel good by playing it AND announcing that it is the singers disk.
I then quickly do the disclaimer bit.
I have seen Happy faces...
I do happy.
If I get pulled... I did the disclaimer.

There is one place that we go too that has a "large" amount of songs at only 1,700. Yes only 1,700. While my husbands personal collection is quite a bit larger. As a consequence we bring all our discs so that he can actually sing songs that he likes. The person running the karaoke has now started to point people to him if there is a song that he does not have that they want to sing. What my husband has that they guy does not is mostly new and current stuff and things like versions of songs that people want to sing like the country version of Desperado.

The point you are missing is that a burn of the originals are not covered. The burn is "For Back Up Use ONLY," not to be used at a public show (regardless of whether it is your own disc or the KJs). That being said, I'll take my chances (like srnitynow). If I don't have the song, I will allow someone to give me their disc to use.




Sorry, but I disagree.... I have seen too many KJs that have a book with their libraries listed, but no recognizeable Manu codes. I don't like to have to keep asking the KJ, "What version is this?" when I see that, so it's just easier for me to hand up my own personal burns. Now, if you are not willing to accept the use of my burns, I can respect that. Because there are certain songs that I occasionally like to sing (songs that are not in a large percentage of KJs libraries), chances are, I might not come back to your show again (unless I was satisfied with your song selection and how you ran your show).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't karaoke CDGs have "For Personal Use Only" printed on them by the manufacturer. And isn't it true that manufacturers don't get any royalties from ASCAP, etc, only the writers and publishers get the benefit there? Couldn't one conclude that it's not the media but the particular track/song that can be played publicly under the license? (Not trying to start an argument with anyone, rather than throwing a few discussion points for contemplation).

By the way, with my "burns" you'd not be taking any chances... all my tracks are licensed for public performance and I have the written permission to make a copy for my use.

First of all Murry, leave ASCAP, BMI and SEASAC out of this equation entirely, They have absolutely nothing to do with anything that involves you and discs.... any kind of disc, original, burnt or anything else.

And your "written permission" has nothing to do with any KJ who "plays your disc in public" because it is YOUR permission, not anyone elses and your permission is not transferable.... even to the KJ of your choice for the 3 minutes it takes to play the disc.

And just as a safety measure, we have a new policy that we will no longer play any Sound Choice track that someone brings in on disc.... I don't care if it's an original or your burns with or without permission, it ain't gonna happen. If I did play it then I would be opening myself up to an accusation that I "displayed a trademark" of a disc I do not own. Which would be true.

So I can see being "set up" by some "investigator" that brings in a disc to sing from and photographs the logo and title on the screen.... all the "evidence" they need along with the photo of your songbook page with the title missing from the list. Hard to deny that you played it with photographic proof and impossible to prove ownership since you don't own it and never have.


I'm certainly not going to get pinched over a technicality. So Cueball, feel free to bring any other brand on disc for me to play, just not Sound Choice.

Yep, that's pretty much what I said... they provide licenses that allow venues to publicly perform songs/tracks in their premises. But they should not be "left out of the equation", the reason being precisely that! They do allow public performance regardless of media!


Yep, it's my permission to copy the track. That permission does not transfer to the KJ. But that doesn't prevent the KJ or venue from playing the track publicly... the ASCAP/BMI/SESAC license allows that.




That's your choice and you're totally entitled to make that part of the way you run your business. But could you kindly provide a list of all your gigs' venues so that those here who may wish to have their discs played can avoid the trouble of wasting their time attending one of your gigs? Thankyou.[/quote]

I don't think i've ever had a show that someone didn't at least have one disc to bring up. Many times I have the same version - 9 out of 10 times I will let them know I have the same versions & I hand them their disc back, the other 1 pushes me to use their disc regardless - so I use their disc in that case, the rest of the times it's just either songs I plain do not have or different versions that they are used to. If you bring them, I will play them.

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