Karaoke Forums

Hey everyone! I don't post much, because my tag and karaoke company name envoke a certain... shall we say animosity? I assure you that I have been in the business for over a decade, and I do not wish to speak of karaoke pirates and the like, as I feel that the topic has been beaten to death (And my fascination with pirates is purely nautical.. or naughty-cal pirates from back in the day).

Anyways... I stumbled upon a company that offers leased equipment that records singers. They say that you can record people and make like $300 a night. Let's just say that it would be more than I make in a night! Can people get into trouble doing this?

Is this a matter of selling the DVD? Can I give them away?

http://www.mediapointe.com/Performer

Strangely recording a show is not illegal.
It then though becomes your back up disk.
You can not watch it.

I see several issues, none of then good.. and I did see this product last year at the L.A. County Fair.

A booth was set up, and you could sing and get the DVD right then..

I'm not sure they paid any license fees for all of this..

I'm not sure they even could pay the fees..

now that's funny!

...and furthermore, I HIGHLY doubt you can make $300 a night ... probably not even $50 a night....and frankly, recording most singers only makes them stop singing when they realize what they look/sound like. So, 9 times out of 10 if you don't ever want someone to come back to your show, record them.

Well, at least one part of the presentation was authentic.

The girl karaoke singer holding the mic by the ball.

, I used to record singers on cassette years ago - totally free to them, i'd supply everything. Some of them would absolutely NOT want to be recorded for fear of what they sound like.
There have been companies that used to video their singers for $5 with a dvd that night, many would opt out or try to walk out of camera range, yeah I don't see any company making $300 per night.
It MIGHT go over better in a tourist type club where there are no real regulars, but highly doubtful in a club that is week to week with regular crowds.

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I agree. Years ago, I had seen (and been to) a few shows where the KJ offered recording ervices (just vocal recordings on Cassette or CD), and I very rarely saw people take an interest in it. Some of those KJs charged as much as $5 per recording, and some did it for free. It's more of a novelty thing to be recorded, so that would really work best at a tourist place like 6 Flags or Disney.

Might as well advertize $1000 a night. Some people doing JUST karaoke have made that much, the question is can they do it regularly, and for nearly all of us the question is no.


Yes $300 is possible, but unless everything is just right, I doubt many places could make that much OVER what they get for just doing the karaoke.

I seriously doubt many places could ever make enough to make the risk of lawsuit a good bet.

As for doing it for "free" I do not think that this line of logic would work for a show that is a paying gig as the "service" could be implied to being part of the product provided by the KJ to the venue. It would therefore be "commercial use", and re-sale of a copy of the music.

Whatever the logic/legality of copying purchased music for format shifting or backup, RESALE (or giving away for free) copies of the music is definitely more likely to be considered illegal.

I actually did looking into setting up a mobile recording studio to take to fairs/town celebrations, ect.... Found out to do it legally it would cost about $10/song for all the licensing fees. Then on top of that I would have to charge at least another $5/song, figuring 5 singers per hour, to make any kind of money. I gave up FAST.

From what I understand to do it legally you have to have a signed contract with the origional songwriter AND also the studio musicians who made the cover version (or the karaoke company if the studio musicians sold full rights to the version that was performed).

Needless to say getting an artist to sign a contract to make it legal is not really happening (for $5 song it is unlikely to ever pay legal fees to write the contract for even a large group of KJs shareing the contracts). AND you probalby would need signed contracts from HUNDREDS or THOUSANDS of artists to run anything like a business. Tracking them down would cost a whole lot and probably many if not most would refuse to sign because the money involved would not be worth bothering their legal teams and accountants.

The problem is the songwriters are entitled to a share of the profits, and it just does not fall into what has allready been paid to them because the recording creates a NEW product with the song.

From what I understand an audio recording probably could be done without prior approval of the origional songwriter because then it might qualify as a cover version of the song, but approval of the karaoke manu is still probably required.

Actually, not legal at all, BUT- there is kind of a sleazy loophole:

If the singer brings their own disc it's still illegal, but the responsibility shifts to the singer's (disc owners') shoulders..

_________________
"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

The singer provides their own CDG, I provide the CD, give (not charge them) the CD for their own use (never to sell) to use as a "learning tool." No money changes hands for this. I do this occasionally for singers, especially parents of my kid singers. I also do it for people who are working on improving their singing. Nobody else hears it, the singer does not copy it nor post it anywhere. So all those requirements kind of take the fun out of the whole adventure for the singer, but it is a very good learning tool.

HEY SC
Here she is.
GET HER.


Yes I do that as well.

Damned criminals are everywhere.

The whole "recording of customer's singing to a CD thing" reminds me of that small town that stopped some little kids from selling lemonade. It's not like some KJ out there is making a fortune from this little favor that they do for their singers.

I remember going to a State Fair years ago and having myself recorded in a sound proof booth and getting a cassette tape of the finished product. If this did anything at all, it got me hooked on karaoke which led me to buy many karaoke discs over the years. Apparently Sound Choice stepped in and prevented this type of business from continuing. I guess they weren't getting their piece of the pie so they decided that they would rather piss in the pie, rather that let a HUGE amount of people take a taste of the pie which just MIGHT cause them to purchase ingredients to make their own "PIES" from Sound Choice. Greed kills.

Nice post Bruce.

I had the same experience, Bruce. It was exciting, and it definitely was the precursor to my involvement in Karaoke.

Good analogy, btw.

Birdofsong

Don't know if this is what your are looking for, but you can record yourself and broadcast to an audience at the same time: for free! www.oqoon.com

Not for me, but my friend is somewhere in the history