Karaoke Forums

Hypothetical product:

Hosting software that streams karaoke directly to the computer. No discs, no purchases - subscription model. Access to (most of) the manufacturer's library, instantly. Fully licensed and completely legal (for the streamed tracks - if the software allowed use of other tracks not included in the streaming license as an option, legality can't be guaranteed).

1) Would you use it? (if not, say so and ignore the following questions)
2) How much would it be worth (per month or year) to you?
3) What feature set must it have? (feel free to include an example of existing software)
4) Any conditions you'd insist on?

You may also direct answers to me at dgrimes[at]bigmama.tv

If there's sufficient interest, we are thinking of developing this product. Licensing is starting to shape up that would allow us to, but it makes no sense to build something there's no market for.

see my last post on this subject.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

No, online only is not reliable enough at any of my venues. Additionally I'd work on fixing the existing website before trying something new (sorry to be negative - I do buy your pro discs every month - 2 copies!)

Jonn

Maybe for home use, I wouldn't want to rely on an online stream for a show in all honesty - the internet at my show is sporadic at best and I cannot afford to use an air card type internet service regularly. So this would not be of any interest to me personally. Love the premise and initiative to move to the digital age! Plus like said above, the only time my show machine hits the internet is to update the hosting software for either upgrades or bug fixes. It's not on any other time.
Non related flipside (well in a manner of speaking). Legal to use "downloads" on a monthly subscription, i'd be all over that, but I know this is not what the question being asked.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I think it is a GREAT idea but maybe a little ahead of it's time. The reliability issue of a wireless connection, also in many cases even the availabilty may not even be there, on the other hand there are probably a lot of places where it would work just fine (reliable wireless or hardwired).

It is very forward thinking on your part and I tip my hat to you.

It will only be a matter of time before wireless is everywhere and relaible enough for this purpose.
If you decide that this is not the time, please do not totally discard this idea, if the time is not now it will be at some point.

As far as its worth, it is hard to say, naturally it is worth more to someone doing 2 or 3 shows a week than it would be to someone doing only 1 show a week.
I don't know if it is possible, but a per streamed song charge would be the fairest and also would greatly increase your "customer base" for your service as it would then make sense to subscribe regardless of how many or how few shows you do each month. Pay as you use, so to speak.

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Music speaks to the heart in ways words cannot express.

No, I would not use it as a KJ. A big part of the "personality" of a karaoke show is the songs that the show has.

Even if such a service ends up providing nearly ALL the songs one could want even then it would still miss a few that make my show special.

Such a service would either result in a substandard show that has a limited list, most likely less songs than I now have (of course no reason to switch there). The other outcome could be a great list with a lot of songs. The only way I see that happening is all the major companies getting together, and cooperationg and that would be an unlikely outcome as well.

The result would be a genearic no personality list that could end up up dominating the market for most average karaoke shows. I strive to be far better than average with my songlist (compared to legit shows) there is no way I would want to settle for a new "average".

This is even without the problems that it would take away my option of doing outdoor shows far away from internet, and I doubt any cellphone based internet would be fast/reliable enough for this service.

RIGHT NOW?, No.


There is a fear factor involved, mostly with the connection/speed.

Customers would never go to a place known for the songs stuttering while they buffer. As a host I would hate to be forced for a song to load. and then what happens when the singer changes mind or wants a different version?


but once all bugs are worked out and can get some real feedback on reliablity, MAYBE.

I wouldn't use it either. Most venues don't offer wi-fi and the ones that do, aren't always reliable. My laptop does not even see the internet. There is no virus/spyware program on my laptop. No programs whatsoever except for Compuhost.

Offer your library as zipped CD+G files on SD cards of Flash Drives at a super fantastic price for KJ's and you just may have something there.

For Karaoke hosting as far as I'm concerned it comes down to price. Many areas of the country have low pay scales for KJs. In my area KJs get mostly around $100 to $150 per night. If you buy $10,000 worth of discs, you own them and over time you've paid for them and you are operating in the black. I'm talking about someone who does 2 or 3 nights per week, week after week.

For an on demand subscription service to be cost effective it would have to be very inexpensive. If I can buy a song for $1 and have use of it forever, why would I want to spend over time many times that initial cost using a subscription service?

I can see an advantage of having access to newer releases to fill in a show since it can be hard to keep up with all the new songs year after year. I would still prefer to buy and own the songs, but that's just me.

I think you are way ahead of time; maybe in 5 years from now. KJs of this forum were only beginning to to go PC a few years back; some I remember; swear never to go digital. some still are CDG based but there are many just starting to go PC.

I can see the future in this kind of arrangement. Just be prepared...

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

I wouldn't be interested for 2 reasons already posted.

(1) Internet connection is unreliable and at times non-existant.

(2) Paying monthly for a service isn't appealing either, unless maybe you were able to download (own) X number of songs per month that would be legal to use even if I no longer used the service.

I would use it if it was 1) reliable and 2) had subscription plans that fit my needs. I don't host much. I would need a per-show plan, say $20.00 per show if you purchase one, $200.00 for 20 shows.

Where it would be most useful is in multi-rigging, i.e. allowing a party show to go on while my main rig was otherwise occupied.

Net access is dodgy at most venues, but I have reliable access at my main gigs.

It would need to be totally rock solid, of course. Unlikely to happen at most places -- you would need to pre-stage complete song streams from the playlist in my opinion.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

I see the benefit for a manufacturer, but as a KJ I absolutely hate this idea.

Such a service would really lower the barriers to entry for new cheap shows into the market since they'd have virtually no investment in cdgs and yet have access to a pretty considerable library. Then there's the bars who would just decide to have some nubile young member of their staff run the karaoke if you make the software simple enough to use.

This wouldn't be the issue for me, if I could use a song when I wanted anytime for a monthly subscription would be great, however as stated by me & many other, internet reliabilty and relying on it to run a show is far too unreliable, i'd rather have the songs I want either on an original disc, custom disc or a physical download to my computer rather than an internet stream when I needed it.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

*Playing devils advocate here.*

My issue with the subscription had to do mainly with a long term investment and no return, in a case where the service was no longer able to meet the demands of the subscribers.

If the provider is not able to keep up with demand to the point of you losing a gig, would you continue to use the service? Even after a year or more of use? Where's your return on your investment?

Most shows (at least around here) are done on the same nights at roughly the same times. I think a concept like this would require a dedicated server for X number of subscriptions. More subscribers require more servers and internet connections. That way no one server would have more than X number of subscribers at any given time. What that magic number is I don't know, but I do know that the more users accessing a server simultaneously is going to effect the speed of the data being accessed.

I don't like the idea at all. As stated before, this would be the equivalent of a juke box. The bar owners would have their staff run it, (and run it into the ground), then karaoke would get an even worse rap than it gets now. Any yahoo can get an internet connection (if they can afford it), and play karaoke host. Just my opinion, but I personally don't see how this would HELP the business, except for the manufacturer. Give me discs, and let me compete with my ability on a level playing field.

Rosario
Serenity Now Karaoke

I am about to stop my Mobile 3G broadband
because it is too unstable.
Works well sometimes.

But you already know these problems.
Therefore just what is it you know that we don't ?

Absolutely. As much as I hate to admit it, if I were a bar wanting to host my own Karaoke I would be all over it.

I strongly agree with that.

This is not really aimed at the KJ is it.

You see venues feeling the pinch.

I don't know if you'd be able to get the licensing for it, but what I'd more be willing to pay a monthly subcription fee for is a downloadable monthly update pack that comes with an END USER agreement. In other words 100% legal to use in a COMMERCIAL environment. i wouldn't even care if these files were copyprotected and required a key that was tied to the motherboard*lots of software vendors are using special usb dongles as well*

Also since bandwidth is so cheap now, i would prefer if any digital content was available at the maximum bps *ie 320Kbps*.

As for the other option, I might be willing to use it providing it allowed me to use all my other music in case internet access wasn't available at a particular venue.


If i was working at a permanent install with reliable internet access, i would be far more inclined to use a subcription service..

A dj from another board who makes his own DJ software is working on a way to take the mp3 tags from the music, and merge the lyrics on the fly so that there are no issues with composition rights, which is the main thing holding back karaoke in the US in terms of production *in my opinion*