Karaoke Forums

Where (if anywhere) can I legally download Sound Choice tracks?

Where are the downloads?

I believe that was twansenne's indirect way of saying, " You can't legally buy downloads of SC songs anywhere".

At the bottom of the page in the middle. Large blue banner strip to be able to download for home/personal use only, not commercial venues that karaoke hosts play in.
There are no legal sites for SC downloads for commercial use sorry to say (at least at this time, hopeful it's coming soon).

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Adding to the above, if one were to download SCs tracks, they would immediately no longer be 1:1, and would become an SC harrassment target.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Not for home use only.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Absolutely correct. But you and I both know that if it's downloadable, it will find it's way to a host's computer. I would also add that SC knows this too. Once downloaded, it's traceable, and a double dip for SC.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Are we sure the DOWNLOADABLE songs on that site are SOUND CHOICE ?

yup pretty darn sure. This site is owned by stingray. Soundchoice sold 90% of it's music to stringray a while back.

Plus I have listened to several tracks online and the music is exactly the same as the karaoke discs I have from soundchoice.

-James

If you want to see tracks you can go to www.venuevj.com/ to see them. except for the karaoke channel logo it looks like sound choice tracks.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

....And Stingray is owned by Kurt's brother... Hmmmm

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

I just wonder if the agreement to not use the product commercially is actually binding and enforcable?

Let's assume that the karaoke song is a legal product being sold by the Karaoke channel, and you legally purchase it (as a song download).


You then "own" the copy of the song (but not for resale purposes).

If you wish to engage in a legal activity being a karaoke KJ, in a venue. Can the selling company place conditions on the USE of the item that they sold you, outside of what is accepted as illegal for similar products.

It is accepted that SIMILAR products are legal to use in a commercial setting, the question is the restrition against "commercial use" by the Karaoke Channel actually enforcable???

Sound choice has the option of selling the songs that they own (or not) as downloads. BUT do they have the option of placing restrictions on the USE of those songs once they have been sold??

Just a question for case law and legal precident. It would appear to me that Karaoke Channel/Sound Choice's assertations may not be based on solid legal foundations.

They state that on SC front page and in the TOS of the download site itself NOT for commercial use - meaning kj's in clubs and any show that the kj gets paid. The SC mp3g program is legal for commercial kj's to use in their shows! Hopefully they will apply that to downloadable songs for the commercial kj![/quote]

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

My point is that yes the terms of service state that "Commercial use" is not allowed. BUT, the question remains is are those terms reasonable in the eyes of a court of law.

What sound choice/Karaoke channel is doing is providing two essentially identical products, one avalible for download and one only avalible on disks (including the new gem disks).

The costs of the two products per song may initially appear similar, but when you take into account that many SC songs are on disks that are largely redundant, often one needs to buy 14 redundant songs to purchase an additional unique song from the SC line.

Court decisions can go either way on this but there is history with other products where this practice could be considered unfair pricing.

Again, there is nothing to state SC hasn't aquired the rights from the original copyright holders to produce these tracks digitally making them completely legal for commercial use. But the difference is, SC isn't actually doing digital downloads, it's Stingrays Karaoke Channel using SC music that SC sold them actually selling downloads.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Fred:First let me preface by saying I am NOT a lawyer. All of my OPINIONS are based on extensive reasearch, the majority of which comes from talking to the karaoke producers in North America *except one, but I won't get into that*

In terms of COMMERCIAL USE Federal Law in the US does not allow ANY "rights" unless specifically granted in writing, or specifically written in the code.


To the best of my knowledge there is no direct reference to Karaoke or even Audio Visual works. so we are back to "granted in writing"

So the 'right' to do anything with an audio visual work *ie karaoke in this case* must be granted by the copyright holder(s). Now here's where it gets really confusing. There are two distinct and completely separate copyrights for karaoke. The first one belongs to the producer of the MUSIC and the second copyright belongs to the COMPOSITION *ie the lyrics*


Under federal law, when someone pays a copyright holder to produce a song *karaoke track* that now becomes a brand new 'work' and is automatically protected under the same copyright laws. In other words, the person who produced the music for that track now owns it, and can do whatever they like with it *sell it, grant rights to other people etc*


Unforuntely, this does not apply to the composition copyright. ALL those rights are still held by the original copyright holder. In other words if soundchoice produces a karaoke CD theV have purchased the 'rights' to produce and sell it it on cd. All other rights must be obtained by separate agreement.

This is why karaoke requires a PERFORMANCE license. This grants a venue the 'right' to perform a legally purchased CD in their venue.

So the 'right' to grant commercial use must be obtained IN WRITING from both the copyright holders.

If someone wants to sell a audio/visual product for download and they obtain permission to distribute/sell the downloads but not the right to grant commercial use and THEN SPECIFICALLY state that its ok, the original copyright holders can go after them for vicarious infringement.

By specifically stating that their downloads are not for commercial use, the repsonsibility lies SOLELY on the shoulders of the end user.

In the case of the download site by stingray, it has absolutely nothing to do with them. What is keeping them from offering commercial use is the COMPOSITION copyright holder. They are the ones who are forbidding commercial use to the end user *karaoke host*


That is the opinion of all the lawyers that are retained by the North American karaoke producers.

Of course, until a case makes it to the supreme court.. It's really all just informed speculation.

-James

That is exactly my point, we have many people who have "rights" to the songs.

We have the songwriters who deserve the royalty from multiple different sources no need to rehash that right now, except to say that the songwriters are getting the same royalties for a download or disc copy of the song in both cases the music and the sync rights are paid. The songwriters are getting paid by the purchaser through SC the same regardless of if the song is downloaded, mp3g disk, or CD disk. In theory the royalties should be the same for the different formats of the music. The only royalties system involving commercial use in terms of karaoke involves ASCAP/BMI and that is a separate issue.

The artificial difference is created by SC/Karaoke Channel to create a discount market and a high profit market. This is possibly a way for Karaoke Channel to sell the same product that SC is selling without directly competing for the KJ sales.

The terms and conditions of The Karaoke Channel state they are not for commercial use. The terms and conditions on Venue VJ state that the company was set up to cater to professional DJs! I emailed Stingray about The Karaoke Channel and they confirmed for non-commercial use. I followed up with them about Venue VJ downloads of The Karaoke Channel products for commercial use and they said they'd 'get back to me'. I've been waiting about a year for their response so far! Read from that what you will.

Jonn

My point is that Sound choice was proclaiming to anyone who would listen for years that Computer based karaoke even if you owned the disks was illegal.

Suddenly they change how they sell their product and "poof" what was illegal according to all of their press as well as countless notices on their CDs is now legal according to them. In a matter of a few weeks what has gone from being a tool to begin a legal process/lawsuit has become the expected way of using a product they are now selling.

It is just that I cant trust sound choice at all to tell me what is LEGAL or illegal anymore. Sound choice can get lawyers to write terms of use that are 1000 pages long, but my question is are such "terms of use" actually legally binding?

I have not bought any songs from Karaoke channel yet, but because of Sound choice's noticeable swing in legal interpretation, which is basicly whatever suits their business model at the time. I have big problems listening to their "rules".