Karaoke Forums

My Wednesday night Karaoke show recently got some new Bar Owners. I managed to be one of the few holdovers from the previous owners...Whew!! The new owners are cool people, but very firm on the following: "We will pay you from 9-12, and if there's a crowd at 12:00 and they want to continue, then you pass a pitcher around and try to gather up $50 to pay for another hour." Normally there is still a pretty good crowd at Midnight. I would have the option of leaving at Midnight, but then they would probably just replace me with someone else, because it would hurt their business. And I depend on the gig and the money it makes for me, and I like the gig. I've pretty much built it myself. It's tough, but I have to get myself paid for the Midnight to 1:00 hour. The obvious solution would be for the bar to pay me, but they will only pay me for the 9-12. So I need to figure out how to help get the Midnight 'picher passing' up to the $50 needed. Anyone else have this issue?


About the only time it comes back with $50 is when someone drops in a $20 or a couple of $10's. I usually try to send a 'Hot Chick' around with it.....lately it don't come back with more than $20 or $25 in it.

I'm wondering if I should do this: Announce at Midnight that the bar only hires me untill Midnight, and that I will be clearing the remaining playlist. Then carry the pitcher around myself....Anyone wanting to contribute can also drop a song or two into the pitcher with their money. What do you think?

It's kind of a Catch 22, if I was a customer spending money at Midnight I would probably have attitude about the 'pitcher passing'....But they also would riot if I just tried to stop at Midnight without passing it around. They're so used to it now that they expect it to get passed, they just don't put much in it. They all expect everyone else to do it.

Maybe if I cleared the list and carried it myself it would weed out the ones with 4 songs on the playlist at Midnight, but won't contribute to the cause?

It's a tough situation, but I've built this Karaoke night for the past year and a half and need to make it work, for me and the new owners.

Ideas on the 'pitcher passing'?

In my opinion it all depends on how it's handled. If someone in the crowd spontaneously passes a hat after you have started to pack up for the night and offers you more to stay that's one thing.

But if the bar or you are begging the customers for the money, that makes you and the bar look unprofessional. Frankly, the owners are being cheap here and whatever negative impact results on a business reputation should fall on them, not you.

What if the singers pass the pitcher and only come up with say $35? Are you going to stay and play for less than you're worth or are you going to piss off the customers? That puts you in a bad spot in my opinion.

Surely, if there are enough people in the bar to come up with $50 by passing the pitcher, then there has to be enough people drinking for the bar to easily afford to pay you themselves instead of turning you into a beggar.

Reject this offer and counter-offer that the bar will always have the option to pay you $50 for that extra half-hour if there are enough people to make it clearly worth their while and if there isn't then that's the end of the evening.

After the crowd leaves with you a couple of times the bar may begin to believe it's worth their while to pay you for that extra time.

Passing the pitcher around to pay the KJ is a real turn-off for me. A bar advertises karaoke to attract singers and then the bar wants the singers to subsidise the bar's payroll. To me, this is no different than the bars that charge people to sing. I don't patronize such establishments. I don't mind the increased drink prices to help pay for the entertainment but passing the pitcher around is way over the line in my opinion. I think I already spend enough while I'm out.

I can see already you're going to have problems with this bar. This is the most unprofessional thing I've ever heard of.

Bottom line...if they want you for another hour, they (the bar) pays for it. It is not your responsibility or your customers to get you paid.

You need to have a serious talk with this new bar owner and nip it in the butt right now. Be the professional that you should be. And if your terms are not good enough....walk!

I hear you, but it's pretty much what it is. It's a very Rural area, Karaoke and DJ jobs are very hard to come by, and I can't replace it.

That was the fear with starting this thread....I already know it's a tough situation, that's not news to me. But I have to somehow make the best of it.

I would say do the math... If what they are giving you is enough to cover that extra hour, just stay when it is busy and go home at midnight when it is slow.

If it is not enough pay to cover that extra hour... Leave at midnight regardless of how crowded the place is, and see how the owners respond. Be prepared to find a new gig.


A tip jar is one thing, but asking the customers to pay your salary is a huge DONT IMO.

JR I'll ask you this again.

Let's say you agree to these terms. The customers pass the pitcher and get $25 in it. What will you do? Play or go?

What if it's $35?

What if it's $45?

If you say no, you're a bad guy and people may quit coming. If you say yes to less than you're worth, then you screw yourself.

IF you're willing to play that last hour for less than $50 why don't you just offer the bar the discounted rate for the last hour and avoid the pitcher passing altogether?

Then you work that extra hour for free and take a loss but don't even consider passing around the pitcher. It makes you look bad. It's a real turn off.

These new owners sound retarded. With that attitude, they're not going to last very long in business. They are trying to get over on you. Don't let that happen. Have some dignity. Believe in yourself. I would rather walk then to work for these clowns. Obviously, they don't respect you...so you must respect yourself.

Just curious, what city/state are we talkling about?

If it comes back with $20 or $25, then I go another half hour. If it's $35 or more, then I'll usually go another hour. Basically, it should be $50 or so to go another hour, or something close to that.

Yeah, it's not an exact science. With the previous owners, there were incentives based on sales. $150 guarantee, with an extra $50 or $100 depending on the sales. Often, I went home with $250-$300. There was plenty of incentive to play the extra hour if busy, because it meant more sales, and then extra pay for me.

The problem with keeping that system, the new owner wanted to make the sales incentives harder to meet, and do away with the guarantee. Thus me going home on really slow nights with $50. I think me and the previous owners thought the $150 was a fairly low number, but it would be better with a really busy night. But there wasn't a 'punishment' of less on slow nights. Bartenders don't get less hourly pay on slow nights, just more tips on a busy night.

I'm not here to diss the new owners, they are neat folks, and it's their business to run the best way they can. Just trying to solve the 'pitcher passing' episode.

I would do my 3 hours and go home. When the customers complain to the owner; he will have to cough up the extra cash if he wants to keep his cistomers happy. I'd let everyone know that the owner only pays me until midnight and I refuse to pass the pitcher around to insult my following and I'd also let them know that this is my job; not my hobby. Passing the pitcher around at the end of the night isn't much different than charging a COVER CHARGE at the beginning of the night. The bar owner is basically telling you to charge your singers 4 to 5 dollars to sing another song after midnight. NO THANKS!!! Not only would I refuse to pay to sing; it would be a long time before I EVER went back to that location for any reason. The bar owner is trying to get something for nothing. He's looking for SUCKERS.

They are neat folks? What have you been drinking?

They're idiots! Plain and simple. What, it's OK for them to make money but not the KJ? Yeah OK. What they want to do is very insulting. Both to the KJ and the customers.

The only way to solve this pitcher passing BS is to look the owners in the eye and say I'm not doing it. Once again, these "neat" owners have no respect for the KJ and are trying to get over.

To the OP...Don't let that happen. You have a reputation to uphold. The bar owners are already ruining theirs. Screw these new owners and their BS ways of doing things.

Ok I'll say it.

I think tip jars are tacky in any shape, fashion or form. And even worse when somebody badgers me by passing around a pitcher.

When your agreed time is up.....pack up and go home. If these neat new owners are good biz people, they will see the value of yor services and pay you to continue. Working for just tips is just setting a bad presedent.

Thank You Alan B

Mojo

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"It looks just like a Telefunken U47 !"

Like others have said, I would leave if I saw this to be a regular thing. I had been to one place where the KJ had one of the Regulars periodically (more than just 1 time in the evening) walk around the entire Bar and solicit people for TIPs during the show. I went there a few times because I had friends that liked to hang out there, but eventually I stopped going BECAUSE OF THAT.

I used to know of another KJ who was VERY BLATANT about her TIP jar. This KJ used to plug in the "Dollar Wine" song and sing it about midway through her show. While she was singing it, she would go up to everyone with her TIP Jar and hold it in their faces. Now, I know that this topic thread is not about this, but it does have similarities to it... especially if you are walking about with a "Pitcher" and asking the people for money.

As for your additional comment, "Anyone wanting to contribute can also drop a song or two into the pitcher with their money."... Let's say you have 25 people hanging out and they are still waiting/hoping to sing. What if you have 20 people who put up $2 each, and some of them put in 2 song-slips with their $2? You stated in one of your answers that if you collected $35 to $45, you would probably continue for the full extra hour. How do you get those 20 people to sing again (and twice, at that)? An average 1 hour Rotation ONLY consists of 15 Songs/Singers.


I work a gig right now that the Bar is tight on money. It's a very small place, and they don't offer up anything there aside from drinks (I refer to it as a Dive Bar). They have a Dart Board and a Pool Table in the back half, but that is where I set up for Karaoke, so they can't use that. They also have one of those ONLINE Jukeboxes, but they can't use that either (while the Karaoke show is taking place). Most KJs that I know of hold a 4 hour show. Since this place doesn't want to come up with the money for a regular show, they have me come there every other Saturday. I do a 3 hour show for $150, AND, IF the place has had a good crowd there for the evening, the Manager will ask me to stay an extra hour (and pay me the $50 for it as well). This has happened on several occasions. There has also been 3 occasions where one of the Regulars there has paid me $50 to stay an extra hour (this was done on their part (spontaneously)).


I feel for your plight, and I understand that this is your profession (and I'm sure some Under-cutter would just LOVE to take over your show if you decide to leave, or if you get Fired for refusing to play an extra hour), but you have to work on getting these "COOL PEOPLE" (really??????????????... not the way I'm seeing it) to cough up the extra bucks for an extra hour. Maybe you can get these Owners to compromise.... Since you have already stated they won't pay you $50 for the extra hour (regardless of how busy the place is ("COOL PEOPLE" (really???????????)) how about you offer to stay an extra hour if they pay $25 more? Maybe they might be willing to do that.

It isn't the customers job to pay the host, it's the bars. Agree with packing up & leaving after the 3 hours (provided you are getting paid to make it worth even 3 hours). After that, tell the customers you want another hour, talk to your bar management about adding a 4th hour!
I've seen and been to shows in the past where everyone was having a great time that the customers just passed the hat on their own & made the offer to the kj to stay later (however if it were in my club, you would need bartender approval first). But it's never been a requirement, it's like telling the customers - you want to stay & sing, then it's up to you to pay for the entertainment - well I guess it's not like that, it IS that.

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If I'm paid 9-12, then I play 9-12. If the bar wants me to stay, then the bar pays me. You are a business person so act like one. Does Wal-Mart or your local grocer or bank keep their doors open for customers after closing time? Midnight is your closing time.

To me it sounds like the new owners want to close early and get home and try to make you out to be the bad guy. Don't play their game.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Successful model where I'm at. Labeled "Pay for Play". Bar pays until 1am and after 1am we go to pay for play at $4 per-song. Most times we get between 8 and 12 or so singers to play (err, pay). Sometimes one person will buy 2 to 5 spots because they may not have sang all they wanted during the regular hours or a group will come in just at 1 and want to sing. Sometimes a couple will come in and he will buy his darlin' a few spots. The examples are numerous.

In any event this has been our setup for 5+ years and it works (most of the time). When there are not enough then things wind down and pack up and go home. This is a five night a week 4 hour a night gig in addition to the "Pay for Play" segment (Tue-Sat). If one thinks about it this could be a good starting point for someone looking for an additional business model to supplement with. It naturally won't work everywhere.

I'm at a rare loss for words. The advice given here is spot-on.

1.) These are NOT cool people. They're bullying you around for $50? On a busy night, no less? If I'm at a packed bar at 12:00 and the KJ passes a pitcher for the purpose of continuing the show, I'd laugh in his/her face and NEVER go back.

2.) There exists a possibility that you NEED the gig. Fine, pack it up at 12 until these "cool people" find someone willing to meet their ridiculous demands, because you were too afraid to do the right thing by calling them out in the first place.

(For the last poster, $4 a song in the last hour? I actually see how drunk people would totally go for that. It doesn't mean it's one of the most tackiest, underhanded con jobs I've ever heard of.)

Hi JRS7

While it is really easy to say you're doing the (@$%&#!) thing by passing the pitcher and that you should leave on time, I appreciate that it isn't always that easy. Especially if they are giving you regular work and they would just as quickly replace you with someone else.

What I can say is that since you have already started started passing the pitcher, the bar will be even more peeved if you do decide to draw the line all of a sudden.

If I offered people $4 per song, I would lose my crowd including my regulars very quickly. It is DEAD easy for someone to come in and say you didn't give them a shot to sing earlier and now you're making them pay for it. I would not want to be the one discussing that.

My current situation run until 11.00. If it is really crowded I will run another 2 -3 songs, and then pack up and leave. If management decides to keep it going, they can. But they will not be getting my services without paying for them. Again this is not my full time job, so I can afford to loase a gig here and there.

I know this isn't advice.

Sorry mate, you're in the poo this time.

Cheers

Vic in Sydney

My Thursday night bar only pays me until midnight. Around 11:30 (IF the crowd is hot) I start announcing that we stop at midnight unless "someone wants to pass the hat". I don't walk around and beg, I let them come to me. If nobody ponies up, I stop. When people start chanting "ONE...MORE...SONG!!" I chant on the mic "PASS...THE...HAT!" About once a month after the music stops, suddenly $50 appears. Most of the time it ends and people leave. If someone complains, tell them to go complain to the manager because they only pay you until midnight, then ask them if THEY work for free at their job!

Regardless, don't feel like it is YOUR fault if the crowd clears out at Midnight when you stop. You did the job you were paid for! I believe it makes you look better as obviously they are there for your show.

The other alternative is to change the hours from 10p-1a. It's easier to start late than finish early.

My bar is open until 3:00, but I typically only play until 1:30. My bar owner wants me to stay until 2:30 if the bar is really busy at 1:30. I make $175.00 for a 5 hour show (8:30-1:30). That's $35.00 an hour. I told the bar owner that if he wants me to stay until 2:30 on a busy night, then:

1) He needs to ask me around 1:00 a.m.
2) It is at MY discretion whether I stay or not, no matter how busy
3) He pays me $35.00 for the extra hour if I stay

I would say that if your owner will not give you this same sorta deal, then tell him no.

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C Mc
KJ, FL