Karaoke Forums

I know this has been discussed, but thought I'd get some input. Last night I had a show, 4 jerks (suburban rapper wannabe's) show up, and want to sing. Great! I cue them up for The Humpty Dance, all is fine, UNTIL one of them decides that he is just going to (cup) the mic, and scream into it at the top of his lungs. I cut the gain, and lower the volume, he does it again, the mics get cut off. These guys are like "what's the big deal?" I don't have time to deal with idiots, so I explain that I don't allow ANYONE to abuse my equipment, to which I get the reply "well, I have a karaoke machine at my house, and we scream into the mics all the time, what makes yours special?" I say, first, this is NOT your HOME karaoke machine, these are MY mics, and don't want them ruined. Bottom line, I ban them from singing, because they kept giving me attitude about it. So, I'd like to ask, what can happen to the mics from screaming in them (sm58's), and what can be damaged on my system if I don't stop this? Just thought I'd ask.

Rosario

Another sighting last night: I was at a contest to support a friend, this guy get's up there, thinking he's the life of the contest; kissing the help, doing "high kicks" (if you can believe that?), and at the end of his song he gets right in the face of a speaker (mounted on a stand), and he screams into the mic while making is feedback. Sort of in line with your question. Lets hear from Lonman, etc., to tell us what harm this does to the equipment, not to mention my ears.

You are not going to harm an SM58 in that manner - you would most likely blow a speaker before ever harming the mic. If it happens it's a rare case. This is where a good compressor with a limiter comes into play - not only to keep the singer manageable but for speaker protection as well.
dbx 166XL is a great tool for this kind of singer, set the compressor to keep their levels more in line to what is normal & the limiter to keep the signal from getting any hotter to your mixer. It's like having an automatic finger on the mic channel fader!
It won't do much about feedback, especially deliberate in the speaker yelling.

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Lonnie said it all, but I'll add that the thing I hate about screamers is that you can only turn the compression up so far before your normal singers vocals will start to clip and sound bad.

Of course I just use a cheap Behringer unit, but it's definitely better than nothing and has the virtue of being relatively simple to set up.

Yelling into a mic is just plain rude. I would have told them to go home and have fun cause you'll never get use of my equipment.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Like any piece of equipment, it's not a set it & forget it piece. It needs to be adjusted with more powerful singers or even some less powerful.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Using a compressor does not cause "clipping" or anything similar. However, some compressors do sound better than others when a large amount of gain reduction is needed. I agree that even the inexpensive Behringer units are much better than no compressor at all as long as the operator knows how to use one.

A limiter, also available on the MDX4600/MDX2600 units, is a good tool for keeping "screamers" under control. If used as a vocal group insert, you pretty much can "set-and-forget" them, and regardless of the channel fader position, annoying screamers won't chase your audience away with ear-popping shrieks. You can also insert one on your mix output to protect your loudspeakers from damage, but when they engage, the screaming vocals will drown out the music (which will be reduced in volume relative to the annoying shrieks.) Most speaker processors, like the DriveRack, have this feature.

Screamers aren't going to hurt your microphone, but they certainly may harm your speakers or chase away other guests. I don't allow this kind of behavior, even though I know my equipment will not be damaged by such stupidity. It's not good for business. That's the only justification I need.

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

The equipment most likely to be damaged is the ears of the people listening.

That said, those are probably the most expensive pieces of equipment at the show, if we consider how much value we place on them.

Kind of a deep thought there Doc.

A couple thoughts here. Compressors with a limiter (like the Behringer models mentioned or the DBX 166's do become audible when the limiter kicks in and it sounds much like a clip because it essestially is. So that might be what he's describing. Another thought is by adding a compressor, you're adding another gain stage and if the incoming level is too high, the input of the compressor can actually clip before the signal ever gets to the compressor itself. This will show up on the meters as a peak/clip. Not sure if maybe that's what's going on. The fix to that is adjusting the input attenuation on the channel on the mixer.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

Give that man a cigar! That's exactly what I was describing.

Lonnie your point is well made and well taken about the compressor not being a set it and forget it piece of equipment.

I also find the compressor/limiter to be handy for getting some extra feedback free gain when I have an extremely soft singer or a singer with ice cream cone microphone technique.

A jet airplane wouldn't hurt an SM58. Like others said, it's more the principle of the matter. It's a show to sing at, not scream at. If you want to scream, go home and scream.

...and I would never do a show without a mic compressor. It is an essential piece of KJ equipment in my opinion.

Screaming into the mic is rude, not to mention obnoxious.
I always tell them that microphones are meant to amplify sound... screaming is already amplified and that when you put the two together it equals hurt ears, not to mention the possibility of blown speakers.
I don't tell them about compression or anything else like that. I try to educate them about proper mic usage for the future. Maybe one day they will be at a show without compression. I never used to have it until recently, so I was always vigilant and still am out of habit.
If they continue to scream into the mics, or blow into them (that just annoys the crap out of me!), tap them, swing them, or otherwise abuse them, they are cut off.
When it's my equipment at stake, and I'm paying the bills to replace it, I will not tolerate someone being disrespectful enough to ignore the rules. Most are actually really good with the equipment. It's the few doorknobs that just can't grasp the concept of treating someone else's belongings with respect that get the boot.
I always use the mic when dealing with morons like that, so everyone knows what's going on and it makes an example of the fool. That way, everyone else toes the line.

I may add a compressor to my equipment in the future, but I still won't allow screaming into the mics. As a few of you stated, (and I agree), it's just not acceptable. If these jerks just want to get up there and show off how (manly) they are, by screaming obnoxiously into the mic, let them do it some place else. NOTHING that I would have explained to them would have gotten through. When I approached the one screamer, and told him that we weren't trying to be hard-nosed, but just didn't want our equipment being abused, he looked at me as if to say, "what are you even talking to me for". That's when I got irritated, and said, "well, you know what, I don't have to explain ANYTHING to you, you, or your crew WON'T be singing on my equipment any more." He had the nerve to tell me that "the audience requested an encore". I then told him, I don't give a rats (@$%&#!) WHAT the audience requested, this is MY equipment, and I make the decisions. They tried to intimidate me for the rest of the night by insinuating that they would stick around and see me after the show. They eventually decided to leave, and told me I was the WORSE kj they've ever seen. I told them THANK YOU.

Rosario

Serenity, if the money is tight, you can get the Behringer 2600 for about $99 at Musicians friend. It handles up to 4 mic channels and only takes one rack space. I bought it when I was starting out and haven't ever replaced it because it's been adequate for my needs.

Admittedly though, I'm not nearly as knowledgeable about sound reinforcement equipment and techniques as some of the others here.

The Behringer quad channel comps aren't bad. They're a little more audible that the DBX's but they do a nice job. I've got the MDX-4400 that I use for my Karaoke mics. Not my first choice as far as compressors go but it works.

There actually was a time (when they were still built in Germany) when the Behringer Compressors far excelled the DBX. If you can find an old made in Germany Behringer compressor, grab hold tight and don't let go.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

Not only are the screamers annoying but the so called experts that tap and bang on the mic "to see if it's on" and then get mad when you ask them nicely to please not do that.

Best bet......turn the mic volume all the way down, and tell them they obviously don't need any amplification.......

This is really not true, but I agree that the user's problem could be poor gain structure causing actual clipping.

The MDX2600 is the 2-channel unit which has more features than the 4-channel MDX4600.

Actually, a compressor/limiter worsens gain-before-feedback when the input signal is strong enough to trigger any gain reduction (above threshold.) An analog compressor has essentially no affect on GBF when operating below threshold, which would be the norm for an "extremely soft singer," unless you are doing New York Compression, which is probably not the case in a karaoke setting.

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

I just WON a bid on ebay for the MDX4400. I should get it in about a week. It included all cords, instruction manual, and original packaging. I got it for under $50.00, can't hardly lose at that price, I hope. So, since I know NOTHING about this item, I'm sure even after reading the manual, I'll be asking some questions. Thanks for everyone's input.

Rosario
Serenity Now Karaoke