Karaoke Forums

OK...

After all the talk about using a subwoofer lately, I decided I'd like to try one. I was told that you can use a powered subwoofer with non powered speakers. Here's what I want to do: Click on Picture to make it bigger. Going from the mixer into the subwoofer, then from the subwoofer to the amp and then from the amp to the satalite speakers. The amp has a crossover built in. Is this correct?

Here's the sub I'm interested in:
http://www.planetdj.com/i--B1800DPRO

Thanks,
Alan

Sounds right to me

Looks like a good deal for $499. I bet that sub pounds too. Only thing is it's probably heavy, like around 100 pounds give or take a few. You better have a cart. I've seen where people put casters on subs to make them easier to move around and the new QSC K series sub comes with casters from the factory. The Behringer is half the price of the QSC and probably thumps harder and goes louder.

All you need to do is use a simple Y cable to sum your input signal from your music source into your mixer. I have 4 mono input channels on my mixer that have either 1/4" or XLR. I go into the 1/4" of one of those channels and I can easily manage music volume, bass, mids and highs off of one channel. This is of course mono, not stereo output since the music from both channels is summed into one.

From the mixer I go to both channels of the amp, but if you want to send a third "signal" just split one of the output lines from the mixer and run another cable to the sub. If the Behringer has a crossover you can go directly from the mixer into the sub and then from the sub to your amp and then to the tops.

This isn't the only way to do it, it's just the way I do it. You can always go into a stereo input of the mixer. I don't run in stereo, I don't believe there is any benefit to stereo outside of a very small listening area.

It's a matter of of figuring out what cable ends you need and then getting the right cables. It may be RCA male from the back of the sub to 1/4" into your amp if you're hooking it up that way. Since the sub isn't supplying "power" to the tops the cables will be thin and just carrying a "signal". If the Behringer sub has a crossover built in then you probably want to take advantage of that.

Using a powered sub with passive tops is no problem, it just requires knowing what cables to use, but the music "signal" is going to come from and be controlled by the mixer and go out from the mixer to the amp and to the sub whether it goes to the sub first and then to the amp powering your tops or the signal gets split into 3 and goes to both the sub and the amplifier. The main thing is, the sub will only get a signal and so will the amplifier that is connected to your tops.

To simplify, a powered speaker whether it's a sub or a powered top gets a low voltage signal from the mixer.

The weight of the sub is 82 lbs. There is also a 15 inch version that weighs 66 lbs. Speaking of which, would I be able to get by with the 15 inch and still have a vast improvement?

Yes the sub has a Cross-Over as long as you use the correct outputs. The way you have it drawn in the picture is the correct cable routing.

_________________
DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

82 pounds isn't bad for an 18" sub. As far as 18" or 15" goes, it depends on your audience in my opinion. For younger crowds and higher volume levels with lots of bass you might want to go with the 18". The size of the bar or restaurant is also a factor. I small place doesn't need an 18" sub in my opinion. It's overkill. If you think you'll be playing in larger places like 2000 sq ft and above then you might want the 18" depending on what type of crowds you expect and depending on the type of music.

For older crowds that don't need the music as loud and who aren't looking for pounding bass, the 15" is fine. Generally the 15" won't go quite as low as far as frequencies, but it will likely be a bit tighter and punchier due to the smaller cone area. I prefer the tight, punchy bass and a smaller, lighter cabinet to lug around from place to place. I'm not looking to churn anyone's guts or make ceiling tiles come down. It all depends on your crowd and what kind of music is going to be played. Modern music, rap, hip hop etc. has more bass than most older music.

I'm mobile. I'm never in the same place more than one night in a row so weight and size are important to me. If you're a big strapping fellow and you have a lot of strength and energy then size and weight aren't much of an issue. To me they are a HUGE factor in choosing gear. Everyone is different and has different needs. Lifting and toting heavy and bulky stuff got old real fast for me.

The Behringer subwoofer is what it is, a very inexpensive sub. If your venues are generally 100 guests or smaller and you don't do a lot of modern "dance music" you may be happy with it. But there are much, much better subwoofers available for just a few hundred dollars more.

_________________
Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

I would consider the Yorkville Subs Ive had great sucess with them

I work in a 6000 square foot bar with two high-end 12" subs, and there are girls who purposely sit in the booths in the BACK row to feel the vibrations from the subs I'd rather have two high quality 12" subs than a big, heavy 18" sub any day in this business. My subs weigh 38 pound each, and I'd put them up against any "budget" 15" sub any day.

I went through a TON of powered subs over the past 6 years, and ESPECIALLY when it comes to powered subs, spend a little bit more to get a good one. Believe it or not, that $500.00 18" Behringer would be considered a "budget" bottom-line speaker. It might work well for most, but it is jsut a fact that Behinger is a budget brand, they use lower quality components than the higher-end stuff, then pass the savings on to you. I learned VERY early in my live music career that when it comes to PA components, budget usually means trips to the repair shop.

Spend and extra $200-400 now on something like a EV, QSC, EAW, DB Technologies, etc. and you'll save money over the long run.

_________________
C Mc
KJ, FL

AFAIK...The B1800D-Pro isn't available in the USA yet, i think it is waiting FCC approval. I could be wrong, but the Behringer sites says "Coming Soon" and Parts Express says Available in September.


I was thinking of getting a pair of them.

TopherM what 12" subs are you using if you dont mind me asking,could do with a sub or 2 as using EV SX300s but only have an estate car to get gear around so not enough room for 15" or 18" subs.

Some websites are taking pre-orders and are giving a date of Sept./Oct.

I am not convinced that any of the companies you mentioned have any clue how to make a subwoofer that is acceptable for "dance music" or DJ duty.

_________________
Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

Spend $399, get the Behringer 15" powered sub. It will be fine. It'll be smaller, lighter, tighter, less expensive and it will make your sound fuller and do what a sub is supposed to do-round out your overall sound.

A lot of DJs and some Karaoke hosts are obsessed with bass. If you're playing really loud, playing lots of hip hop and rap and DJing more than hosting Karaoke then IMO a sub is going to be more important. For straight Karaoke in small and medium sized venues at moderate volume levels a sub isn't mandatory.

Really, depending on the size of the places you're playing at you might not even need a sub. Smaller places you can get away with just a good quality pair of 12" or 15" speakers. In my opinion for Karaoke in many venues a sub is optional. Most people won't know or care if you have a sub or not if you use good mains. No one is going to complain or stop coming to your show if you don't have a sub.

Totally agree! I'll probably get the 15" and use it if and when I need it. There are times when I play dance music in between karaoke (depending on the venue and if it's requested) and for those times I'll use the sub. I think it will work out fine.

I have actually used two 10" powered subs that have knocked out a loose pane of glass from my front window at home. Sounds just as good as any other system I have heard, altho I must admit I haven't had the chance to see what it sounds like in a large venue but the small gig I had was enough that I also had a few women who liked to sit near the speakers.

-James

Zonerc, my subs are DB Technologies SUB12s. DB Technologies is very well regarded in Europe, but doesn't have many retailers here in the states. They list for $660.00 each, but I talked the guy down to $550.00 each.

http://www.directproaudio.com/product.c ... m=googleps



Jeff, I agree, but that's not what we were talking about. If I were doing strictly DJ work, I'd go with a pair of Yorkville LS2100s or a pair of folded horn subs from the likes of B52, Cerwin-Vega, Dynacord, or EAW.

HOWEVER, when you are talking about karaoke, I personally don't think you want any more than a 15" driver. Smaller drivers are more "musical." Throw some 18s in a karaoke show, and I think it muddies up the mix. If weight and $$$ were not an option, I think a pair of 4x10 sub arrays would be the perfect choise for karaoke. However, considering those would weigh about 150lbs each, I'm happy to stick with my pair of 38 lbs. 12s.

_________________
C Mc
KJ, FL

That's the reason I qualified my remark. Some folks on the forum just do karaoke, others use their equipment for a variety of events. I certainly would not choose any of the B52, C-V, or Yorkville subwoofers for DJ duty. I'm not familiar with Dynacord's subwoofer options, though.


I agree that many karaoke backing tracks are very poorly mastered especially with regard to bass content, and the reason for this is inadequate studio monitoring systems and poor attention paid to bass content by the recording engineers. However, to blame a good subwoofer for a bad track is foolish. No one has ever complained about the bass not being musical when I have my SRX rig out. If you have this problem, quite frankly, you should stop blaming the subwoofer, start recognizing that the issue is probably bad tracks, and learn to compensate for that with EQ when playing those tracks.

_________________
Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

I'm with Jeff on this one, I've heard the comments about "sloppy base" and other such non-sense when talking about 18's vs 15's. I've never seen any real justification for it and I've never seen a situation where the size of the woofer alone was the determining factor. Most concert class rigs whether line-array, traps or something else are using 18's in their sub-low enclosures. I can guarantee you those rigs are quite "musical".

_________________
DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke