Karaoke Forums

That's where you're wrong!
There IS money at stake.
When you drive enough customers away because you play favorites or make your "loyal" (they won't stay that way for long!) customers wait while you "play" with the rotation or allow others to jump ahead, you will find they will go somewhere else.
A neighbouring bar had a host like you. Notice I said HAD! They also HAD customers. Notice I said HAD!
They now all come to see me every Thursday night. I'm the busiest bar in town. Know why?
Because I DON'T play favorites. EVER.
If you ask me how I know, it's because I'm told it, time and time again.
The other bar has gone through a few hosts, trying to build their crowd, but it's already too late. I have them now. I thank hosts like you!
Call me a "Rotation Nazi" if you like, but it works for me and obviously the customers think so too!

Well.. i'm glad that works for you.

Interestingly enough, we have to just about push people out of the bar at 2:30am on the nights i'm there, and in 12 years of doing this, i've never been fired from a venue, so their might be a bit of functionality to my method as well.

Not to say your way doesn't work.. but perhaps.. just maybe.. there is more than one way to skin the proverbial cat.

First of all.. I don't play favorites.. I don't give my favorite singers or friends any preferential treatment. I just put matching song styles together to help the evening flow better, and I give new arrivals a chance to sing if they get to the club later.

I've encountered shows like yours.. i've been out with friends and not been able to get out as a group until after 9.. not because we were 'spending the majority of the night' somewhere else, but because of differing schedules, lining up sitters, etc plus the road time from each others house to the bar.

So that table of 6 who are all decent singers (and drinkers) won't get to sing at your bar because it's after 9pm.

There are lots of people who don't even bother heading out until after 10pm.. these people would also be out of luck coming to one of your shows.

You're saying, "Well next time get here earlier!" I can hear them saying, "(@$%&#!) you, next time i'll go somewhere else."

So while you're following your strict rotation, the customers who don't have a chance to sing go somewhere else.

But you're the busiest club in town, so I guess you don't have any seats for them anyway, right?

The last half dozen regular jobs I picked up had a host like you. Notice I said had, because people got sick of sitting around listening to the same 6 people sing who put in their 400 songs promptly at 9pm.. or not being able to sing because they had to work until 10pm.. or because you refused to take a break from the karaoke every now and then and play a dance song or two, or got sick of listening to the KJ sing half a dozen songs.

Maybe I just draw a more diverse crowd. Only about half of the people who show up to one of my shows come to sing, the other half just enjoy listening to the show.. the banter I have with the crowd, etc.

Again, your mileage may (and apparently does) vary.


>golf clap<

Personally, I'll pass on the Chucky Cheesy show every time. I drink and spend plenty. I don't have to sit there and watch 4 drunk chicks get preferential treatment because the KJ thinks he might get lucky if he lets them sing without having to wait. I wonder if he'd give 4 drunk guys the same treatment? Sounds like another ego maniac host to me. I'm glad his style works for him and I'm glad I don't have to deal with it.

And what's wrong with the fact that I may not like your Sound Choice version of the Broadway songs I may sing, so I hand you my Pocket Songs or Just Tracks version of the song?

I resent you classifying me as being anal retentive and cheap. It may not be Star Search, but I still like to sing from what I am comfortable with. And... I drink too (so do my friends). I am NOT a water sipper/soda drinker/coffee/tea drinker when I go out unless I feel that I have had too much to drink (of which I cut myself off and switch to the soft drinks).

Aside from your obvious attitude, what's your problem with that!!!???

Yes you do. You said so yourself, above. You favour the 4 drunk girls who come in late (against the customers who've already been there all night), and you dis-favour "serious/anal retentive singers" and "blue hairs", thereby favouring the others! You see them, and you make ASSUMPTIONS about who they are, what they are like and whether they have cash to spend or not. Not good business practice, if you ask me. You never know just who those "anal retentives and blue hairs" are that you're turning away. It may come back to bite you in the butt one day!

You appear to like to make assumptions, and you don't stop with the cutomers that walk through the door of your venue, apparently.
You make a lot of assumptions about my show, to which you've never been, and it appears that you like to take things out of context. You know what they say about making assumptions....

First, you assume that you MUST get there at 9:00pm in order to sing. I NEVER ONCE said that! I used YOUR original example of a LATE COMER (see above to check and see!). I also stated very CLEARLY that if there was no room (because they came too LATE) that I would remind them to come earlier next week. I also said that if there was room, they would get put in, but they would have to wait their turn, just like everyone else. Hardly refusing to allow people to sing because they don't come at 9:00pm.
I highly recommend it, though, because on super busy nights, when the rotation gets upwards of between 20 - 30 -plus DIFFERENT singers, if you DON'T, you might not be able to sing. It's called fact and common sense. My show is 4 hours long and if you divide that with an average of 3.5 minutes per song, give or take, you will be able to get in approximately 68 songs. Divide that by the number of singers on a busy night, and you will get a roughly 2 hour - plus wait to sing. Those same singers will get MAYBE 2 songs each in the entire night. There are only so many songs a person can fit into the allotted time frame. It simply isn't possible to do more. Hardly the same 6 singers you ASSUME are there.
Also, you ASSUME that I allow those same singers to take up the whole night by throwing up multiple songs and so saturate the playlist so no one else can sing. Wrong again!
They can put us as many songs as they want, but they also know that it doesn't mean they'll get to sing them!
I allow new singers to add to the rotation and they WILL take precedence over someone who has sung before until such time as I close the rotation or it naturally comes to an end, whichever happens first.
You also ASSUME that my bar wants a dance song or two. They DON'T. It's strictly a karaoke show, as that is the demand. They DO NOT want filler music of ANY kind!
They would scalp me if I tried to "take a break from the karaoke every now and then and play a dance song or two"!
You also assume I "sing half a dozen songs".
I don't.
Why don't you try reading and comprehending what is said, instead of trying to twist what I've said and make assumptions about me and my show (to which you've never been, I remind you), to suit whatever need you seem to have?

I unlike bruce and cueball do not drink and that is because of two reasons, neither one because I am cheap. The first reason is I am on meds that are deadly when mixed with too much alcohol and the other reason is that I don't want to be like my dad who had a drinking problem. That said I can pack more sodas in in the same time one drinks a beer.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

I wish there was a "like" button on here!

But I can eat more french fries and chicken fingers than you can. Neener Neener

I'm not going to get into a pixxing contest with a skunk here. Let me just say this, though - each of us who are smart and have been in the business for an extended amount of time (me since 1995) and who don't get shuffled out the door because we can't fill the place, have identified what works for us in our venues. I happen to favor civility in lieu of drunk youngsters (if we're going to start assumptions here). I draw a money spending crowd - they aren't the 22-28 year olds who come in, pump back a lot of shots, get rude and unruly, stage rush, scream and cuss into the mic to get attention from their homies, and then roll out leaving a room full of people just shaking their heads, wondering what happened to courtesy. Don't need those, don't want those. Interestingly, when they do come in, I identify them and lay down the rules quietly with them before things get out of hand. If they don't like the rules, they can leave, and I am happy when they do. Why would I place a room full of people who've SPENT TONS OF MONEY before the diaper crowd arrives in the position of watching a group of "entitled" brats who figure because they can drink that they can do what they want in a place?

I don't know many of those 22 to 28 year olds who sit at a table for a few hours, buy meals for 6-8 people, then drink for the remainder of the evening. Some tables at my gigs regularly pay out over $200 for the night. Doesn't take many of those kinds of tables to result in a nice z tape at the end of the evening. Four drunk chicks who've had too much to drink and who really only want to put on a show for each other can go down the street to a place where they might be appreciated. Bartender looks at me, says "I can't serve them, you don't have to either" thereby avoiding pixxing off the good paying customers. <<golf clap for you, and yes, your mileage may vary...don't knock it until you've tried it...>>

IDK

In his original post the "CHEESE" just stated what he thought about him, his show and his customers.
RIGHT OR WRONG.... I don't think he attacked anyone personally.

What with the hostility people ........ If you been hosting long enough you would have had to come across SOME singers who were as described by CHEESE
Maybe his show is not for you ... we've beaten to death WATER DRINKERS - BAD rotation mgt - Do we need to to it again. He runs his show the way he does.

Are you serious? I have people bringing in discs nightly - I sometimes have up to 10 discs at my station from singers. Sometimes because of version, sometimes it's songs that I do not have nor cannot get. Why would you deny someone wanting to sing off of their own disc to make their experience as fun as can be. I have brought discs to shows as well only because I know the songs, or have them recorded in the key I need - funny how many computer jocks cannot change the keys.
Coke sippers CAN actually be contributer if the bar charges for every drink. If nobody is spending anything, then yes the bar should kick them out, not the karaoke host to make that decision.


She was getting at if you don't have time for the singers that have been there all night spending/waiting their turn, why on earth would you get someone up that has been drinking/spending elsewhere? I give everyone a shot to sing to a certain point of the night when I have enough to finish out the time left. Once that time is come, a no more slips sign goes out & NOBODY will turn in a new slip - new or old.
Also gues I am a rotation nazi, everyone sings in their turn. Nobody gets bumped up, only exception is if someone wants to push their song further down.


Hmm, I have some pretty great singers, that also spend and avg age group is early 20's to mid 30's. We also have a no cussing rule which eliminate those rowdy drunks that want to scream every curse word, guess that may be why the better singer attraction. They party, spend AND can sing.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

+1

I'm with Jam on this, I don't understand the hostility. Cheese was very straight forward didn't insult anyone on this board and in return he's gotten nothing but hostility. Some pretty childish responses and a lot of over-sensitivity here.

I had pretty much stopped reading this thread after the first page, going back and reading page 2 now, here's what I see. Cheese has demonstrated that he has a very good understanding of the bar owner's perspective on this and what will bring him back each week. If your bar owner sees his joint is full of people but notices many of the people that came out to sing with his "Karaoke guy" are not drinking, he's not going to be happy with his investment. At the end of the night, we're there to make the bar money, that's what we get paid for.

And bumping newcomers in the rotation IS NOT playing favorites, in fact quite the opposite. It's ensuring that everyone gets a chance to sing. I bump new-comers too, in fact there's a nice little option in AutoKDJ that does it for me. I like it that way and I have no problem when I go to another show if I get bumped down in the rotation so that someone new can sing. Personally I think that's completely fair and those that don't agree with me can either deal with it or pick a different show to go to, that's their choice.

Now I wouldn't say that I intentionally run off the people like Cheese has talked about, but don't play dumb either. We all have seen them, we all know who they are and we all can identify them pretty quickly. I have to admit, I cringe when they come in and in many cases I don't enjoy them being a part of the show and my audiences usally don't either. I've watched people like that monopolize the stage and it drives non-singers out of the bar and also causes potential singers to shy away from singing. I've seen it from both sides of the board and I don't like it. I can totally see Cheese's point of view on this and I don't understand why so many here have taken this so personally. Disagree fine, but why do we have name calling and and insults flying around?

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

Agree

I mean if you look at the very 1st post (which I started) in simple terms I say ..there are different ways to host and different expectations of singers.
We need to be tolerent of others ...YES discuss by all means!

But just because someone does something different some feel the need to defend their way as the RIGHT WAY and the BETTER WAY.

But as long as a KJ is working and the owner/management is happy ..thats all there is too it. Singers tend to find shows they LIKE.

KJ's need to do what ever to keep all customers happy..without singers there is no KARAOKE SHOW ...... Everyone settles into a venue and show that makes them comfortable for there TYPE be it A B or C or something in between !

I got nothing against newcomers getting up sooner than later unless you're still on the first rotation. I hate people I know who put their songs in after I do getting up before me. I don't mind it if we're in the second rotation cause I agree that people who are new coming in after the first rotation has passed should get up sooner.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Well.. haha.. clearly i've touched a nerve with some folks here.

First off, diafel.. you keep saying that *I'M* making assumptions.. then you immediately start ASSUMING the people that come in at 11pm have been drinking somewhere else all night.

Yes, I said i'd bring up the four drunk chicks to sing a requested song, but I also said i'd bring up ANYBODY that comes in later in the night to the top of the rotation.

Now if there are people sitting in the bar that haven't sung yet, and had been there before the newcomers, they will sing first.. but I always put newcomers up ahead of people who have already sang at least one song.

And YES, 'BruceFan4Life'.. that includes the group of guys that come in that want to sing, too.. or the couple who only get out once a month because they both have full time jobs AND go to school and can't get to the bar until after 11pm.

diafel, I didn't *assume* people like that wouldn't get a chance to sing at your show.. you yourself said your bar was the 'busiest in town' and that at the end of the night you say something like, "If you would like to sing, but you weren't able to tonight, please be sure to come back next week starting at 9:00PM. That way, you'll be guaranteed to sing!"

Those are your words. And if I hear that, that's the only conclusion I can come to.. if I want to be guaranteed i'll get a chance to sing at your show, I better be there by 9pm, and if I can't get there till 11pm.. well, since it's the busiest bar in town, no way i'll get a chance to sing.

Speaking of assumptions, 'BruceFan4Life'.. you said: I don't have to sit there and watch 4 drunk chicks get preferential treatment because the KJ thinks he might get lucky if he lets them sing without having to wait. I wonder if he'd give 4 drunk guys the same treatment?

I've got a firm policy of not (@$%&#!) where I eat. No good can come of dipping your pen in the company ink. Sure I flirt with the girls, and they keep coming back, but that's where the line is.

I used four drunk girls coming in at 11pm as an example. I've said it over and over again I put EVERYONE who comes in later in the evening the opportunity to sing at least one song by putting them at the top of the rotation. That includes the gay guy, the lesbian couple, the trucker guy, or the couple that just made it to the bar.

The people who don't like that are welcome to leave.. and upon occasion, they do. Usually storming out the door stomping their feet like a (@$%&#!) 8 year old because I put Dave in front of Karen in the last rotation when it should have been Karen and THEN Dave.

Many of you clearly cater to the hard core karaoke 'purist' or the 'professional karaoke singer' and hey.. more power to ya.

I've spoken with hundreds of bar owners over the years, and I always get the same handful of complaints over and over again when I approach them about having karaoke in their club.

"I don't know man.. the bar fills up with people, but nobody is drinking!"
"The last karaoke guy I had in here sang all night like he was the star or something."
"I tried karaoke in here a few times, it just attracts the same 12 people singing the same songs over and over, and it runs off my regulars."

I've never had a club owner tell me, "Yeah I tried karaoke once, but all it did was pack my bar full of thirsty 22 through 34 year olds who wanted to cut loose and have a good time.. I can't have that."

But hey.. whatever works for you.

One other thing that confuses me.. some of you talk about drunks like they're a bad thing.. like they somehow wandered into your Church of Karaoke and dropped a deuce in the confessional and desecrated the sanctity of all that is holy.

It's a BAR. They sell BOOZE. Getting drunk is the POINT.

The SOLE REASON you're even in that bar in the first place is to sell drinks. Your job is to put thirsty asses in the seats and keep that cash register ringin' up sales.

That's it. No deeper meaning. No divine plan.

As long as people are in the club drinking the bar owner could care less if you're singing karaoke or juggling bowling pins.

To a point, I can see both sides.

If the majority of people are only drinking water then you aren`t going to last very long as a host.

I for one will buy whatever I can afford some weeks the only money I can afford to spend is for the gas it costs me to go out. I only get `paid` once a month so I tend to spend more at the beginning of the month, and by the end I usually just don`t order anything at all, even water becase I feel bad about making the waitress get something for me for nothing. Fortunately for me, the waitress who works the karaoke shift knows this *that i get paid once a month*, and she knows that when I do have money that I am a very generous tipper, so in the end it all evens out.

I will not buy alcohol at all for several reasons but the main one was that I didn`t like the way it made me feel.

-James

Wrong again!
Once again, I was using YOUR own example.
You, yourself, said "four drunk girls"....
If they weren't drinking somewhere else all night, how the heck did they get drunk?

Well, it only makes sense that if the bar is stinking busy when you come in at 11:00pm or later and you didn't get a chance to sing, the only way to GUARANTEE that you'll be able to sing is to come at 9:00!
You can try coming at 10:30, but who knows? If it's that busy at 11:00, it may be that busy at 10:30. But again, it may not. Obviously, you'd be taking your chances. As for people who work late, get babysitters, etc. What would you have me do? Hold spots open just in case someone like that shows up? Not exactly fair to the guy who walked in a hour before and has waited patiently for his turn, is it?
When you have a line up of people that long, the only logical thing to do is to make them WAIT THEIR TURN, JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE had to!
While I sympathize with those that have to work (and I have SEVERAL regulars in just this position), etc, it's not anyone else's fault, nor mine. Sometimes life gets in the way. It's called reality. We are not all playing in Romper Room anymore and we can't always have everything we want. That's what adulthood is.
Not everyone get a ribbon at the end of the race and we are not all winners in the real world.
Again, the only sure way to GUARANTEE that you'll be able to sing is to come early, at 9:00!
You yourself should know this logic if you've been hosting as long as you say.
It's called common sense.

Exactly.. That's why I bump up late arrivals.

It's adulthood, not romper room.. yet it seems like you're running your show just like a daycare.

"Now.. you have to wait your turn, little Billy.. little Sally was here first. Maybe next time you should consider getting here earlier."

Haha.. you even used the term 'reward' in an earlier post.

I refuse to "reward" them for drinking the better part of the night somewhere else!

No gold star for you!

In the real world flights get bumped, amusement parks let you go to the front of the line if you pay more, what was the phrase you just used?

It's called reality.

If someone is going to get their panties in a bunch because I let a guy who just got off of work and couldn't make it in the bar until 11:30 up to sing, well then there's the door, sister. Don't let it hit ya where the good lord split ya.

As to YOUR assumptions.. I say four drunk chicks walk in, and your imagination runs wild!

".. someone walks in who is already drunk, maybe got kicked out of the bar up the street because they can't be served any longer, they walk in, have no hope of contributing a penny to the bottom line because they are obviously too drunk to be served .."

Yeah. haha.. no assumptions there on your part. My mistake.

Why on earth should 4 drunk chicks walk through the door and bump me, especially when it's obvious they've already spent their money elsewhere? I'd be livid!

Just a word of advice.. if anything that happens at a karaoke show actually makes you 'livid' either you don't know what the word means, or perhaps you're wound just a little too tight.

Yep.
Totally your mistake. I didn't say it.

BTW, Could you please try to refrain from using profanities? It isn't really necessary...