Karaoke Forums

Well Bruce.. just had a listen to your track.

The CB version is a slightly better composed piece.. most notably for the fiddle parts.. but I really had to listen several times, and finally A/B the two tracks, pausing one then listening to the other, and going back and forth, to pick out the differences.

Not what I would call so vast a difference that it would prevent me from singing the song if the Music Maestro version were the only one available.. in fact, i'd have to say both tracks are all in all about on par with one another.

I can't pick on the guy for his vocals, he can sing.. especially considering he wasn't familiar with the track. The overall mix sounded a little thin and trebely.. but that just might have been because I was comparing it to my mix that was clearly very flat.

The SM58 certainly has better clarity.. but then again, I haven't ever disputed the SM58 was a vastly superior microphone.

All and all I think I proved my points.. I can sing just as well as most karaoke singers, and the Music Maestro tracks, as a general rule, are far from 'unsingable'.

Even for a hack like myself.

I thought the Cheese version sounded really fun--obviously he sounded more like he was playing to an audience as he actually was. We aren't F word fans but would probably have fun at his show. But we would probably start to miss our own songs even if we guts it with his. He sounds like a really outgoing host who probably sets the example for the singers to give it their all, also, good or bad.

Bruce can sing at our show any time. We've got pipes nearby. Pretty good to do the song that well with just learning it ovrnight.

Even with my lack of ear, I could hear that Bruce was crisper and Cheese was a bit muddier but it still sounded like a rousing karaoke song and didn't offend me as far as at least it wasn't headacheville. But then I'm used to Nadys........combined with Yamaha.......

I would have to honestly admit that if a show was really fun and rousing and the sound wasn't of the sort that splits right through my head, I would have no problem with it not being sound engineer quality. But overly loud, distorted stuff that is too tinny makes me cranky so I wouldn't entirely discount the importance of sound to a show.

That's one track, one of the better Music Maestro tracks at that. As has been often stated, it's not that they are all unsingable. A lot are, particularly rock ones. Look at the difference between the MM "Piano Man" and almost anything else. Same with "Born To Be Wild". They are pathetic. And some are truly unsingable -- I have stopped them in the middle and walked away. With almost no other brand have I done that.

You do a good job. The mic is awful though, on many levels. Poor sound quality, and more importantly poor consistency in off-axis response and reaction to dynamic change. You always know what you are going to get with a Shure -- you never know what you will get with a Nady.

Are they unusable? Probably not in many cases. Are they crappy? Definitely. And my approach is that I usually don't come back for crappy.

We argue like this stuff is black and white. It isn't -- it is many variables, of which sound quality is only one. If the sound is crap, I can still have fun, and often do. In fact I just did karaoke in Colorado Springs, on a CAVS machine with some MusicMaestro stuff. My cousins and I went out and we had a great time. Luckily I know that on the CAVS standard load the numbers between 10700 and 12400 are DK tracks, and the MM tends to be 3000 and below. I got one DK and one Panorama for the two songs I sang. They did use SM58s which I always like to see. When something isn't a constant attack of crap it makes it easier for me to appreciate it. Did I have fun? Yes. Would I go back? Maybe, but I would be much more likely to if they played my disk. (They may have if I had asked -- I didn't, too busy being with family.)

There is a guy who I like a lot. He has some decent material in the SC foundation and CB essentials, and he (and his guy who subs) run a good show. They play more DJ tracks than I would like sometimes, but they are nice and they do let the singers sing up to twice an hour. But the sound is so consistently bad I don't go to them hardly at all. VocoPro VHF mics is the big problem -- dropouts and distortion are the order of the day. The Nady would probably be an improvement on those, to be honest.

And does he think I am anal retentive? I don't think so. They don't play disks -- I asked them once at the beginning and that was the end of it. I sing from the book, and just sign up for songs. Whenever I arrive, they give me a shout-out -- "Mickey is in the houwzzze". They ask where I have been. (I know the waitresses like me since I order from the top of the menu and tip well.) I of course don't tell them I am not coming because I think their equipment sucks, though I mention I wish they had a wired mic as an option. Hasn't caused them to add one. He tends to lose shows pretty often, but gets new ones. He's everywhere, mostly because of price I think.

There's another gig I go to almost every week. Heavy on the Music Maestro, as it is again the ubiquitous CAVS standard load. I totally avoid the MM tracks, and tend to sing DK, Party Tyme, and Monster Hits. THM when pressed. They, on the other hand have great sound. Behringer mixer but EV speakers and the high-end VocoPro mics which I have come to appreciate just a bit more. The amps and compressors are great -- Crown and DBX. If they had a better mixer it would *really* sound good. And the acoustics are to die for -- you can hear yourself clear as a bell if you stand in the right place. That's why I go every week. My wife and I eat dinner there, and they start the show at 7pm mostly because of us -- we would probably stop coming if it started at 9. (Sunday night, work, and a long drive.)

Crowd makes a big difference. And if the sound is crappy, the crowd is rarely enthusiastic, at least in my experience. If the sound is really good and people sit up and take notice when someone halfway decent sings. They applaud, and that's contagious. When it's crap, they are much less likely to applaud.

Just like there are many variables to a show, there are many to a singer. I am a serious singer, in the sense I like to sound good. But I don't know that anyone would know this from my presence. I am usually with others. We don't drink alcohol, but we come early and eat. Tall cranberry or virgin mary is my usual. (We rarely go to bar-bars, mostly ones with halfway-decent food. Tombstone pizzas and hot dogs need not apply.) I never complain about things, I just observe. I sometimes go and "scout" shows, and if they look good I bring my wife, other family members, and friends. If I don't like it, or the venue or crowd, you only can guess because I didn't come back.

So I think I and others here are guilty of over-generalization. And reacting to shots like "anal retentive" from a KJ who has been exasperated with some of his divas. My divas? I just laugh, as most of them are childish. I do what I am going to do, and treat them like everybody else. If they ask for more effects, I give them what they want. No skin off my back. If they want to play their disk? No problem if I have my player hooked up, but I often don't. If they complain about it, I say "sorry" and tell them I will bring a player if they are going to be a regular.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

Completely off-topic, but a simple way to fix that if you're using MP3+G's (and I've had to do this with some songs that move pretty quick and had that problem) is to edit the MP3 in Audacity or something similar and just insert an extra 500ms or so of slience at the beginning of the track. In almost all cases this has worked out great.

OK I now return you to our regularly scheduled p!ssing match.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

Haha.. my bladder is empty. Going to have to fill up with more beer tonight!

Cheese...You can come any time time of my shows. Bring your nady mic and MM song on a flash drive and sing all night long.


To all.....
Doesn't matter what kind of music manu you play, what kind of mics you use. If your crowd loves it and the bar/venue you are at makes $$$ when you are there, that is all that matters.

One nite whilst on vacation, the wife and I went to the local bar where there was KARAOKE TONIGHT advertised on the window. We got there about 7:30, karaoke started at 9:00. The host showed up abut 8:00 and setup her player, radio shack amp, some cheap way off brand name speakers, and mics that looked like something Bob Barker used back in the 70's.

Perusing through her books, not a big selection, 2 CB essential packs, lots of LG and MM, with some SC and Top Hits mixed in too. We thought OMG, this is gonna suck till the cows come home. WAS I WRONG!!!!! By 11:00 there were 50 people in the bar that was probably fire rated for 30, everyone singing, and having a GREAT TIME, including the Wife and I. My wife sang a lot of Led Zep & Black Sabbath/Ozzy, and the crowd love it.

So again, it doesn't matter as long as your crowd loves it, and you make the bar $$$$$

I use audacity to remove vocals from tracks but how do you add silence to the beginning? That would save me from re doing entire CDG files for some songs that don't paint quickly enough. Thanks

I'll post it in the Technical forum so as not to get us off track here.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

OMG, now after almost 2 years of being on this forum, I've been enlightened. I am glad this thread turned into what it did, because after listening to both Cheese, and Bruce sing, and THEN reading the REVIEWS, I really know what the meaning of KARAOKE SNOB means. I hate to say it, but I call it like I see it. I would be happy to have EITHER singer sing that song at my show, on EITHER my sm58, or my (new) Nady mics that I'm getting. And on EITHER version MM or Chartbuster. I don't know what kind of singers you get at YOUR shows, but I would welcome these guys. If I had people like you in the audience, I, and EVERY kj's show I have EVER been to would be in trouble. If this is so terrible for you to listen to, I'd hate to see what you think of really BAD singers. I am gradually building up my show to be one of the best in my area, (in my opinion), and would hate to have an audience of critics like you guys, because as far as I can see, NOTHING except maybe a professional set-up in Carnagie Hall is acceptable. And in some cases, maybe you could even cririque that. All this time, I didn't know that I was in such company. I just thought that it was all kj's just like myself, but more knowledgable than me. I guess it's like they always say, SOMETIMES too much knowledge is worse than none at all. WOW!!!

Rosario

ps. This post is not meant to be offensive, as I said, I just didn't know what kind of company I was in.

There's a gal three towns over.. sets her funky old 80's Peavy mixer, no name amp, CAVs player, and TV all on a card table she brings with her.

I asked her why she didn't put it all in a rack case.. she said it was too heavy to carry it all in at once.. and she didn't mind spending the time to carry it all in piece at a time and set it up.

It looks like crap. Her speakers are a set of Radio Shack 'Mach 3's' they used to sell years ago in the late 70's, early 80's.. complete with simulated wood grain. They sit on the floor. No stands.

Her microphones are the same kind of microphones you'd find in the 'electronics' section of your local drug store. Typical $19 mics with the 25 foot molded cord.

By all accounts.. a total garbage setup. I've honestly set nicer stuff out for the trashman to pick up. Looks like hell.. sounds like hell.

But twice a week that little bar is packed full of singers.. granted the bar probably only seats 50 max, but it's always full. She's entertaining.. and the crowd she draws wouldn't know the difference between a SM58 and a 85 Buick.

Just goes to show different people go to different shows for different reasons. For her crowd, it's largely the entertainment value that her personality brings to the show.

For as much as i've been busted on here for sound quality, I get compliments all the time from people who say they love the way they sound on my system.. and they keep coming back.. but you know.. i've heard people complement the chick with the radio shack speakers on her sound as well.

shrug

Everyone gets compliments. Even the people who have lousy sound do. Audience means a lot -- if people are paying attention and applauding, you obviously think you must sound good.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

As a sound tech, have you ever had someone come up and complain about bass, treble, volume and the like?
I have, and I usually turn a "dummy knob" (one that has nothing hooked up to it), look at them and ask"How's that?"
"Much better!"
Just goes to show most people wouldn't know good or even bad sound if it slapped them upside the head.
Which only goes to show that you CAN have lesser quality gear and still put on a good show.
I personally wouldn't care what gear the host uses. If I'm out to have a good time, then all I care about is that it doesn't sound so terrible my ears hurt.
Other shows can do what they like. I will choose which ones I patronize on a variety of criteria, the least of which is how "good" the gear is.

Naked could be good. Or, really... really bad.

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

I've got some great pics from last summer when I had people wrestling in jello.

What I called 'Full Frontal Karaoke'.

Needless to say the more serious singers didn't stand ring side.

I'm a "serious singer" but there is ALWAYS room for Jello.

All I can do is state what I see. Around here, the shows where the host pays attention to quality seem to last years. The ones where the attitude is that "it's good enough for karaoke" or "I need to play to everyone in the room so I will make the singers wait" go bye-bye quickly. I can't think of any so-so shows that last in this area.

Quality will out. You can always have fun on certain nights, but that wears itself out over time. if you are going to have a long term relationship there has to be more underneath. Drunks can drink anywhere, and will. They are fickle. The singers are the ones who are going to provide the core. If they are dissed and devalued, they won't come back. And here, that means the show dies. If you could make it with a DJ show, there would be a lot of DJ shows. There aren't.

The top-dollar gigs are all quality. Singers tolerate longer waits because it sounds great and there is a good crowd. Nothing like that happens with Nady mics, not here. It's Shure and Sennheiser mics, EV/Yorkville/JBL/Mackie speakers, and Sound Choice/Chartbuster/Zoom type of tracks.

If you are in an area with a large population, or where there is a lot of transience in crowd, the rules are probably quite a bit different than they are here where I live. You can afford to tee some people off, because there is a constant supply of new faces. But I am guessing that even that degenerates into a poor reputation after a while, and it gets harder to get gigs or get a following for a new one.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

There obviously is a place for all hosts - it may be area dependant wehther there are alot of show to choose from or not. Around here there is karaoke on almost every corner. The good singer tend to seek out better sound & selection while the not so good singer are fine wherever with whatever.
I had 40 singers tonight - 80% better then avg to REALLY great, all stayed from 9-1:30, maybe got lucky to sing 3 songs if they were there from start to finish - turned down 3 $cash offers to bump - and they still stayed for their turns even though they were anywhere from 1/2 hour to 2 hours away. Had 2 really good new singers asking if I had certain version in SC over others I had listed in the books, asked if they could bring in their own discs next time with the versions they liked (guess you could call them 'prima donnas' or 'diva's'), their bar tab between the two of them was $200 as they were getting high end drinks as well and they had a great time and were very impressed with the sound of the show & everyone in general (I don't normally take that as a compliment as people say that at bad shows too, but these guys tipped me $20 each after the show even though I couldn't get them up for their last song saying it was one of the better run shows they have ever encountered and would be back regularly) - we will see but they seemed pretty genuine.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Bill Cosby once said, "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody."

My philosophy as an entertainer is to identify my target audience, and cater to that audience.

Many of you target the serious karaoke singer. I did that early on, and my personal experience with that was that people that serious about singing karaoke were just too serious to spend any real money buying drinks. They seemed to always sing the same 12 songs, they were an older crowd, and their song selections tended to run off the younger crowd.

They got moody when the rotation was altered, they'd get pissy if you played a DJ song or two for the people who wanted to dance.. they would complain that you didn't have high dollar this or that.. in general, I found it to be a high maintenance crowd.

Don't get me wrong.. I was able to find work, and have (yet) to be fired from a gig.. but it really seemed a lot like work.

Now I cater to the casual karaoke singer/party crowd. Only about half of the people who follow me around even sing.. and only about half of the singers can even sing.

I set a sort of party atmosphere, and mix my karaoke with popular DJ music. It's kind of a Karaoke Radio Show meets Howard Stern.. and no one element alone would draw a crowd.. but the combination of karaoke, DJ, and my personality behind the mic make for a formula that packs the venues show after show.

Again.. not to say there aren't other ways to approach it.. but the real key is to identify your target customer, and then cater to their specific needs.

I don't care if a karaoke show runs dj - although not my preference (even when I was in my partying 20's), but I hate when I see karaoke advertised & then the kj plays dj music. Just put karaoke AND dj on the ad so I as a singer know what to expect. I don't go into a dj show & expect to hear karaoke played, it shouldn't be the other way around either.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I don't generally advertise myself as Karaoke & DJ simply because actual DJ portion of my show represents about 1/8 or less of the airtime.. and that is generally limited to dance stuff, or the occasional crowd favorite that everyone wants to hear, but I don't have it for karaoke, they don't make it for karaoke, or nobody wants to sing it.

Not to mention my DJ selection is pretty anemic compared to my Karaoke catalog.

Again.. my target audience doesn't seem to mind taking a two or three song break between rotations to let the girls get up and dance.

Plus, it gives me a break to go to the bathroom, get a drink, socialize with the customers, greet new faces, and try and get people who've never sung before up to try a song.

You know.. pressing the flesh and working the room.