Karaoke Forums

Unless asked, then nope.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Even you don't believe that was an attack on us.
You know Bruce better than that.

I happen to agree with what Bruce said, and I don't see it as attacking the group. It's a good observation. We are ALL guilty of it at one point or another. Ease up.
BTW what on earth is going on? I've agreed with Bruce again!
OK. Who are you and what have you done with Bruce???

If a KJ is making calls and inviting people with the statement that they are going to lose the gig if they don't get the chairs filled, then I would assume that there is some room for making a suggestion. Rotation is so important, and if a host continually messes up the rotation and tinkles people off, and they don't come back, you have empty chairs..>>geee, calling people to fill chairs so they don't lose the gig? Better listen to suggestions as to how to fill those chairs, or at least how to keep from having more empty chairs. Good grief, sometimes for the good of the entire business, it is better to make a quiet suggestion (not in front of everyone) than to let it go and end up with one more place that says karaoke doesn't work there.

OK... here's my opinion (based on what you opened with). You were asked to come to her show (just to fill a seat). Your opinions on how she ran her show were not asked for, therefore you may have overstepped by offering her advice. Plus, when she called you out on it, you didn't seem to care or want to listen to her defense.

quote:
She pretty much got tinkled at me for pointing this out. Telling me I was wrong. I apologized and told her I didn't mean any insult. She told me she has the slips and can prove I'm wrong. I wasn't interested in being right, I didn't even really care if Singer Y sang at all; I just wanted her to know the importance of rotation management.
end quote

It's been pointed out that you don't know what the situation was with Singer Y. It's possible that Singer Y didn't hand anything up to sing. Since you weren't running the show, were you watching Singer Y's every move? Aside from you texting her while she was running the show (which may be quiet and private), I think this is where you overstepped... by telling her that Singer Y hasn't sung in a while. Isn't that up to Singer Y to complain that he/she hasn't sung in a while?



quote:
She's new the being a KJ but I've been to her gigs before and she's done a good job with getting her equipment but is still tuning in her system for the locations. To boot she hasn't had much training in rotation management and the board and people and rotation sometimes results is a bit of confusion. I understand all this and have helped her with some concepts and items on her board and simply want her to succeed.
end quote:

I'm not exactly clear on what you are saying here. What board are you referring to? Is it a chalk board where she keeps track of the rotation, or is this some equipment board that you are talking about? I understand your feeling the need to want to help. You said that she is new to being a KJ, and you have already given her some pointers. How much time have you spent helping her out? From what I can understand, it sounds like (quote above) you've already given her some explanation/s of how to run a rotation. Texting her at her show (while you were sitting there) was not the way to do it.

It's a horrible observation and makes generalizations about KJ's that's unfair.
#1) KJ'ing is a business and however the KJ's chooses to run it makes it RIGHT
#2) KJ's use equipment they can afford and are happy with -never the believing there is no BETTER out there. There is not a KJ in business that could not upgrade their equipment. The question is always WHY? why spend $1000 when $200 wll do ?
#3) Of course Kj's hate being told they SHOULD have a cdg player as much as singers hate to be told they SHOULD sing something from the book.

This NEWBIE KJ is of course not experianced enough and will have to find out for herself the mistakes she is making. She'll also learn about the whiney singers who wander from show to show like misplaced gypsies looking for a home. It's all part of the game

The truth hurts.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

How is it unfair? It's totally true. we are ALL guilty of it at one point or another. EVERY ONE OF US, even if it's just for a minute.

Point proven.

Like Jack Nicholson says..."YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH".

Let's face it. KJ's don't last long without attracting singers to sing at their shows. Can I sing something out of the KJ's book? Sure I can but if I just bought a new CD+G disc with some new songs on it that I really want to sing; I'll find myself a karaoke show that allows me to sing what I REALLY want to sing instead of something that thet the KJ just happens to have. Pocket Songs came out with a Springsteen disc a few years back that didn't have graphics for any of the songs AT ALL. I spent hours making the graphics files for the songs and then burnt them to a disc. Why should I patronize a show where I can't get the opportunity to sing those songs? Should I be limited by the KJ's selection of the same 3 Springsteen songs. I don't expect any KJ to have every song that I would like to sing but it sure would be nice if the KJ is nice enough to provide a way for me to sing my FAVORITE songs. I don't see how hooking up an extra piece of equipment, or buying one more program(Siglos) is such a big deal for a person who is making a living in the karaoke business.

I knew a house painter that refused to paint anything with WHITE PAINT. He told everyone that he had plenty of other colors that he would paint with but would never use the color WHITE. It was his business and he decided that he would run it any way he would like and he decided NO WHITE PAINT EVER!!! A potential customer, who happened to be in the construction business, called the painter for an estimate on painting 20 HUGE new homes that were being built in the area.

Painter lost the Gig because he wouldn't use WHITE PAINT. His competitor got the contract to paint all of the houses and made a small fortune and continues on painting houses for the home builder.

Now, that is an analogy.

Do you hear me now?

I agree with Bruce, most kj's i've come across have always thought they run the show correct.

As far as the OP, I will help any kj who asks for honest evaluations of their show or help with equipment or whatever. I wouldn't just tell them if I thought they were doing something wrong - because again, most don't ever think that in the first place.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

What I see is a business owner running the business the way he wants?
Did he lose a potential "small fortune" ? probably as you say ..BUT WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE THE WAY A PERSON RUNS THEIR BUSINESS??

You should just visit the shows that offer that service to you ? Why you feel the need to complain about those succesful KJ's who choose not to play customer discs is beyond me.

Back to the OP:
I won't give advice unless specifically asked. Otherwise, you end up with what's happened here. An angry KJ. Remember, they kill the messenger.

Not sure of your point .. of course no one is perfect 100% of the time. If you read the comments again and feel it portrays an accurate picture of KJ's on this forum
than I apologize to you. ---- If you feel that as a business owner you shouldn't do what you want to do and run your business on the advice of the minority I feel for you.

My friend owns the bar where I KJ. He frequently vents to me about his business problems or asks for my input. I tell him what I think, but I know he will never listen anyway. A lot of small business owners are that way, and it's hard not to think you're right all the time when you start a business from scratch and become somewhat successful.

Example:
Friend's daughters have a cocaine problem and have been stealing from him to feed their habit. Now theft has worsened to include stealing from customers (taking cash from a customer who pays cash, charging drink to a tab customer who will later pay for the same drink again, putting cash in pocket so sale is not missed/beer inventory is not short.)

I told him about this, and it is not the first time it's happened, so rather than fire the thieving daughters (and he has other employees who have been caught stealing from him INCLUDING HIS BOOKKEEPER) he just yells at them and calls it fixed. So I quit working at his bar on days when any of these employees are working. That hurt his crowd/revenue a lot more than we expected, but like I said, he won't listen.

Example 2:
Friend who got me started in KJ business put his son at a bar he worked at when its owner opened a new place. Son was always drunk, frequently late, often left early, had arguments with girlfriend while working, and certainly did not have a sane rotation. I pointed this out to friend, who ignored it, until his son got fired. Friend then went to owner of the bar I work at, tried to get my job so he could put son at his new venue, failing to realize the stupidity of hurting our business relationship or giving son more chances to damage his reputation. I still have gig, son makes doughnuts. Go figure.

Example 3:
Owner of competing sound company was told repeatedly by bar staff, patrons, and myself that the guy he had running PA for him at a local bar was always way too loud, and was just there to drink and push buttons, not to satisfy venue's requests for appropriate volume, good mix, make band happy, etc. This went on until friend's sound company actually got banned from working at this bar, and all bands who used them regularly were canceled and told to re-book when they got new sound companies. Friend lost about $15,000 a year of revenue and is now lowering his prices and advertising on craigslist to try to stay afloat.

All these are obvious to anyone but the business owners themselves. Why? Who knows. I guess it's small-business-owner mentality. We all think we are right, and when we're not, it's hard to admit.

But I still wouldn't help that damn fool KJ in the original post. She deserves to lose her gig.

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

My point is that we are ALL guilty of that mentality at least SOME of the time. Having said that, cut some slack when someone thinks this way. It's human nature. We ALL do it, regardless.
And yes, you are also right. We are all entitled to run our business the way we see fit. It's not an "either/or" situation here. BOTH are correct.

ok

Hopefully Gryf will do a followup post maybe in the next 6 months and we can find out how the show is doing.

It probably won't take that long.