Karaoke Forums

I tell you another story about belittling....

A few months ago, they had this country contest. I was not planning on trying for it this year, but things changed.

We went to this one bar, and this girl that I met once (though friends) was also there trying out (we will call her betsy).

So, me and my bf and another friend were sitting at the table when betsey came up to me, said hello, and immediately starting to tell me how she started recording stuff at the studio (same one I record at), and how fun it was, and how good she was doing, and brag, brag, brag. (my bf and friend even noticed and said later how she was so bragging). I really could actually care less.

Anywho, we all got to sing till the actual contest started, and she was singing songs like, Take My Breath Away, and that stuff, trying to intimidate me. She was looking right at me most of the time. I sang songs that were good for my voice, and catered to the crowd, Melissa Ethridge, etc.

It came time for the contest to start, and she sang Broken Wing. She was up there, again looking my way, singing. She sang the song well.

I went up there and sang Independence Day, and I sang it bad. I got nervous, and my throat got stuck. However, I made sure I made eye contact with everyone in the room, smiled a lot, and just had fun. I knew that the song was toast anyway, so it was just fun from there. (we both looked at the crowd standing on a stage).

There were a couple of other people that sang okay, but did not use the stage.

In the end, myself and another lady eneded up winning, and betsy did not. Well, you should have seen her storm out of there!

The next day, I talked to my friends who I met betsy through, and she said this to them "Well, that Crystal sure ended my winning streak. How could she win anyway? I mean I sing like good and she just sings, and well"

Basically just slamming me! I was in disbelief. I mean, who does that????

Anyway, I guess that is why I get so upset when people belittle people like that. Attitudes like betsy's are not what karaoke is all about. I am not a competitive person, and competitions are so I can grow as a performer and learn to be in front of a crowd. I go to karaoke to grow as a singer, to learn and try new things.

Also, the girl I was talking about in the other post is just plain rude too. I was talking to her about Idol, and she was saying that she had a cold, and was staying overnight at the venue anyway.

I told her that she probably won't get any sleep and her cold would get worse, and it would be best if she would get some sleep at home, and join her friends later.

Well, the snotty look I got for trying to help out! In the end, she blamed not making it through idol on her "cold and sore throat", like if that did not happen she would have made it.

I dunno, I guess I just gotta stop taking it all so personally Peace

I don't care how good or bad someone is as long as they have fun. That's what karaoke is all about. If someone thinks they're Elvis or Janis, big deal. Nothing to get worked up about. IT'S KARAOKE.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Different strokes for different folks . Just dont forget to tip the kj. All these scenarios have happened at my shows all the time . Southern California is the king of all that crap and nonsense. Even yours truly the most humble entertainer in all the world has show boated big time. ( sometimes you'll do ANYTHING for the girl ). Move on and let it go. Remember it takes all kinds and if your lucky enough you will see all of them...

If every time you go to a Karaoke show, you (meaning anyone) have a bad time, feel belittled, put down, disrespected and just generally put into a state of anxiety. Why would you continue to go? There are bars ther to just sit at and drink, and bars to dance at.

Personally,
when I was single and dating, and went to singles bars. I had feelings like this. Always someone better, someone showboating. If you dont bring attention to yourself you wont get noticed. Wallflowers are normally overlooked. You are going to find people at every show that try to "Steal the show" That is the nature of the beast.

I disagree that karaoke is for the 99% that are bad to average singer. and that a good singer should be humble, and hang their head while singing, because they are good. Even the bad singer, as they keep going back are going to learn a few songs that they can Nail. They deserve recognition for what they have done, not for what they can't do.

No Professional, ever walked into a studio, sat down wrote a song and recorded it, and had a number 1 hit from it. You dont learn keyboard or guitar, or any instrument (yes the voice is an instrument). From just sitting there, you have to pay the dues, and practice. There will always be someone a little better, and it usually comes from repitition.

I do agree that a person should'nt limit themselves to one style, or just imitate 1 performer. But they aparrently know their limitations, and are afraid to try any new material. I remember one night I had a show, and it was slow. I asked the audience if they would let me pick songs for them. I knew their range, from kj'ing there a while. They agreed, and some of them actually suprised themselves when they really nailed a song they had never tried to do before. Now they try a variety of things.

Don't feel intimidated, that is how most contests are won or lost. If you think you are a winner, you could be. If you see yourself as a loser, don't expect to dig out with a teaspoon.

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I'm Not Dead yet...... But every day Im getting Closer !

I do not feel like defending myself when I say that karaoke is catered towards the average to not so good singers..but maybe I should explain why it is that way. If you have done anything close to KJing or in the karaoke-business in general. You will know for sure that the money you make does not come from the pro-singers and unless you are running an odd karaoke establishment, you will know that 99% of the singers you have would never make it to become recording artists. The money the bar makes from your KJing comes from food, booze, your tips etc l comes from the average to the not so good singers and the friends and family of these singers. Neither do people go to a karaoke bar to listen to pro-singers.

Karaoke is not a local bar concert. Karaoke is about singing no matter what your skill level is, a venue where everyone is welcome. That is why the karaoke business makes any money in the first place, because up until ?!?!1980s?!? when karaoke was invented in Asia somewhere..singing in public was only limited to 2 camps. Either you were a pro or you sang in the shower or maybe along with your reletives at home.

Is there anything in for a singer that wants to become pro at going to a karaoke club?!?! Not really! Unless you have invted people in the recording industry to listen to you at that specific bar, but they rather have you send in a demo to their office.

Karaoke is more about singing THAN listening. I have seen pro-singers walk around and pass out flyers about their CD and then go up on the karaoke stage and put on a pro perforamce and then have people clap their hands mildly. And right after have a average to bad singer go up and perform and have people off their seats cheering and going wild.
That is what karaoke is all about! It doesn't matter how well you sing and everyone has a shot at being a star(atleast in that karaoke bar)

But when you have a Showoff singer like has been described, who sings real well, and brings in 10 paying customers........ it's still about the bottom line.

Let the SHowoff do their thing the way they do it. Let all karaoke singers do their singing the way they want.

I don't know how it is where you live. But here, there are karaoke competitions every couple of weeks at different establishments. These places have as much as a $500.00 or more prize for the first place singer. you don't win these by standing meek & mild, and singing with your head down like you are a scolded puppy. The serious karaokers that go to these competitions practice at any particular Karaoke bar they are in at the time.

If someone comes into my show, and wants to show case, that is fine with me. If like you said, , then don't pay attention to them. WHen it's your turn to sing, have a ball, Enjoy your 5 minutes in the spotlight.

I'm sorry if this sounds like a rant. I dont mean it to be, there is just so much whining.... (and I don't mean from you, or anyone in particular)

I don't think there is anything wrong with ranting

It is nice to see how everyone veiws different topics.....and everyone can talk about them maturely I have enjoyed reading everything.

Like said above, it is different depending on where you live. I can't see how a karaoke bar in California can be compared to a pub in Edmonton. I mean California is known for entertainment (movies, singers), that is where everyone wants to go to be famous

Now, up here in Edmonton, it is a lot more frustrating because you CAN'T avoid these people (you can ignore them, the bathroom remark was the best )!

Now, if every karaoke bar you go to has the SAME people who do the same belittling things all the time, it is hard to get away from. There are only a select amount of good karaoke bars, and all the SAME people go to those bars and everyone knows who you are.

Now, I have tons of confidence in myself and my voice, and I guess it is just me not wanting to show off my talent at karaoke. I just feel that by not looking at the screen, I am trying to show people that, "hey, I can sing better and perform better than all of you" type thing.

I think that is just why it bugs me. I guess I am just humble about my talent and expect everyone to be that way, and I just don't want myself getting a big head !

I would love to travel down to the states sometime and see some of these places you guys host. I think it would be a totally different experience than up here

Everything you say is true.

I read somewhere, If you take a Light, and hide it under a bushelbasket it doesnt shine.



You shouldn't feel that way. Professional singers and talent scouts do go to Karaoke bars. Would you feel belittled if Michael Bolton, or Gladys Knight sang before or after you. People know who the Pros, or who the show offs are.


When you sing, give it your All. Be the best you can be. Believe it or not Karaoke shows have been a place for new stars to be found.


I have singers in my shows that are totaly monotoned, and think they are good. Sometimes I wish they wouldnt sing, But as long as they are drinking, and patronizing the bar they have the right.

My Point ........ Enjoy yourself. Be happy. The only Person that you have to please is yourself, and the only person that can make you happy is you.



Karaoke here is a BIG BIG thing. on any given night there are over 100 karaoke bars & shows within a 60 mile radius of here.

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I'm Not Dead yet...... But every day Im getting Closer !

I don't know how to do the quotes so I'll do it the old fashioned way...

Dr. D Quote: "I read somewhere, If you take a Light, and hide it under a bushelbasket it doesnt shine."

That is exactly how I feel, regardless of their vocal ability. They may be a comedian who gets everyone rolling with their rendition, they may be an opera singer nailing Pat Benatar for fun! Karaoke is not a competition unless you are in a contest. Karaoke is a great way to enjoy yourself in the company of others, regardless of whether they stand stock-still staring at the TV or boogie while singing Car Wash!


Dr. D Quote: "My Point ........ Enjoy yourself. Be happy. The only Person that you have to please is yourself, and the only person that can make you happy is you."

Again, I agree with Dr. D and would like to add... & if you can make another person enjoy themselves while pleasing yourself, so much the better!


ritisroo, I would love to have you at our show, or even go to where you sing as I have a tendency to applaud for others & approach them about what I liked about the job they did! You'd be surprised how it only takes one or two people to get excited about an evening before it catches on!

Susie

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You do it in the shower,
you do it in the car,
Ccome do it with us,
and be a star!!!!

Karaoke with Full House Entertainment

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Ritisroo, it sure sounds like you and I were brought up with similar values as far as humility...it was drilled into me that showing off and being cocky were extremely undesirable behaviors. And I'm grateful for that part of my upbringing. I mean geez, those kinds of people are for the most part really annoying. I think it's easy to tell the difference between someone who's trying to sing a song well and entertain people, and someone who's so insecure they need to bring 10 people to watch just them and ignore other singers.

I've been doing karaoke for 2 yrs now and from my experiences I've learned that I have the most fun and soul-enriching experience (not kidding) when there's an optimal, generous, supportive vibe flowing throughout the singers, kj, and club. Showboating, snootiness, and exclusivity effectively kill a great atmosphere. It's just like in any group of people that assembles anywhere: dysfunction within (read: even one jerk or a$$bite) dampens the good and the fun.

Thanks Ritisroo for having guts to voice stuff I bet most people think to themselves when they are out a club but wouldn't admit. I know I sure think catty stuff cuz I'm human. And the previous picture of your kitty was so cute!!!

I've been singing for about 1 1/2 years at karaoke and just started hosting. I can tell you that I've seen the group that doesn't clap for anyone but thier 'person'. I've seen people come to the last qualifying night for a show and get upset that they weren't picked (they went up to the KJ and said 'Here's my number. Be sure to call when you know I'm in the finals.". Puh-lease... her singing wasn't that good (terribly off key) and she had her back to the crowd the whole time (while she just stood there stiff and sang)!

I've seen cocky singers. And it's the attitude of holier than thou that I don't care for. We're not competing for who's better - we're having fun. I've seen people do exactly as described which is why I often say "We clap for everyone at karaoke. Sometimes because they're incredible singers, sometimes because we're glad it's over - but we always clap." I say this usually after I sing a song or a really good person gets done (small crowds). I also give encouragement to my singers - great job! Good performance! You show lots of heart! They keep me employed so I make sure to encourage them anyway I can.


As for contests, I'm not a big fan, largely because they're too subjective. I've been to contests and been 'dissed' and even won some. When I was dissed it was 40% voice, 30% costume, and 30% stage presence. I was one of two people in any sort of costume or did any sort of performing other than just stand and sing. I sang a custom medley of O Borther's "Man of constant sorrow", AC/DC's "You shook me all night long", Sugarhill Gang's "Rapper's Delight" and Fats Domino "Blue Monday". It was great - complete with totally unexpected costume changes. The guy who won should have won - period. He did a great job and his voice was a tuned baritone with great costumes and acting. I wasn't disappointed I didn't win - I was disappointed I wasn't placed anywhere in the top 5 (out of 12). It wasn't even about the prize - it was about recognition for the work I put into preparation. In the end though, I had a great time, the crowd loved the show, and I got over it (in a couple hours). I didn't take it out on anyone though... I remained jovial to the crowd and my friends and discussed it with my fiance later (she's biased, but I can't blame her). In the end, I learned karaoke is about having a good time with friends and watching people perform. I keep that in mind now no matter where I'm singing... It's about the fun - nothing else.

BTW, I always look at the monitor and the crowd when I sing. I make a point of looking at the screen, even if I don't have to. I've sung Louis Armstrong's "What A Wonderful World" more times than I can count, and know the words backwards and forwards. I've even memorized a speech he gave before singing it once. I still look at the screen. I tell the people there that it's easy - the words are right in front of you and you just follow along. If I didn't look at the screen it wouldn't leave much merit in my saying that. They'll just say he practices at home all the time so he sounds good (or something similar). I sometimes make a point of singing a song I don't do extremely well either (not REAL poorly, just average or a little below average). I want the patrons to know I'm not perfect and that I don't sing just stuff I sound good with. They respond and I get more people singing that way.

Karaoke is about having fun. Enjoying your small 15 minutes of fame 3 1/2 minutes at a time. We had one pair of guys who used to do 'Beat It' on a regular basis. They barely knew the words, were off key to the point of cringing, but they had memorized the entire fight scene from the video and used to perform it. Talk about a performance! THAT was something you just HAD to see to believe. They were having a good time and I'd gladly swap all the 'pros' for these guys almost any day.

BTW, If you can't poke fun at yourself you shouldn't poke fun at anyone.

The few times that I have seen pros at karaoke bars (Branson or Vegas) usually the openers for the Biggies, they got everybody rockin . The crowd got more involved the singers picked up a couple of notches and it usually turns into a great night.

Things to consider are .... singers only sound as good as the system
When somebody sounds decent on an average system then they are probably talented enough to make a few recordings. To compare them to a professional cd is.......

If I am doing a gig I want singers to turn the crowd on and provide energy for the mediocre singers, (I dont like singing at my shows) and usually the night doesnt get started until somebody turns the crowd on...
whether they are hot doggin or not.

There is a difference between getting all the mechanics right and entertaining the crowd. Anybody that has watched Simon on AI should realize that. One of the biggest resonses I got was the the first time I did Baby Got Back and I totally slaughtered it.. It is about soul, heart, and bringing everyboy's energy level up a tad...

My 1 cent on this on (not worth enough to be 2 cents)....

If a person comes to my show (a) not wanting the KJ to sing or (b) not wanting singers to "perform," then they need to find another show!!! I started KJ'ing because I love to sing, and I love the concept of karaoke. That being, they have to let you sing, no matter how bad you are!

First, yes, my TV puts the singer in the position of facing the crowd. Who wants to spend the night looking at people's asses? (Well, I've been known to do that, but at least then I get to pick the asses.)

Second, yes, singers, PLEASE take your eyes off the screen! I'm there to sing for you and to listen to you sing to me. Please sing to me, not the TV, the floor, the ceiling, or the back wall.

And third, yes, please perform! Put on a show! Be all that, a bags of chips, a Diet Pepsi, and a Snicker bar, for crying out loud. This is your 15 minutes of fame. Take advantage of it.

I've read it posted here that one can pick out the people that are showing off as opposed to those that are not. Please explain the rules to me, cause I personally have never seen anyone "showing off." There are some that have more stage presence than others, some that "perform" more, if you will. That doesnt' mean they think they're better than other singers. That just means that's their way of having fun. Maybe the people who think some singers are showing off are really just jealous?

I know "real" musicians who avoid karaoke like the plague because they're "serious" performers. These are the people who get under my skin, the ones that I think have issues with thinking they're better than karaoke. But like I said, you won't find them at a show, for just that reason.

And, if we're not concerned with "showing off" and getting attention, why are we worried about who claps for whom? I did a song in a contest once. I had done it before for the same crowd and got roaring applause. This time, I thought I nailed it, so did the KJ. The crowd stared back at me like I had just spent the last three minutes quoting the Tai Ching. You know the cartoons where the singer stops and all you hear are crickets? That was this night.

But who cared? I sang, I had fun, I did my thing, and if the crowd (or a certain group in the crowd) didn't get off on it, that was their problem, not mine.

THAT'S karaoke. Sing what you want to sing the way you want to sing it and to with what anybody else thinks.

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Paid2Party
"I love karaoke. Where else can you get paid to come out and party with your friends?"

You are right. I don't think there are any rules to how you should act at karaoke.........performance wise, as long as you are happy doing your own thing, who cares what the people around you think.

Now, when you say about who cares how people clap, then Booing a bad singer at karaoke should be okay too. Why not boo for the bad singers if you are allowed to cheer for the people that sing good?? Of course not, that would be just plain rude and belittling.

I'm sorry, but I don't believe that bringing in friends just to cheer for you and no one else is proper karaoke etiqutte. (and she, herself was also not clapping or supporting anyone else). When you go to karaoke, you go to support everyone, good, bad, ugly, pretty, performer, whatever. You show the people the same respect that you think you should get.

I am so used to clapping at karaoke that I have caught myself clapping for the band at weddings when they finish a song.

Now, I truly believe if she was there with one or two of her friends, it would have been totally different. I do. I truly believe that she was there to show off. Now, again, I could be wrong, over reacting, whatever.

I do think there is are "unwritten rules" about karaoke, but whatever gets your goat.

And I agree with you that there are some things that shouldn't be done. Booing is definitely a bad thing.

The thing I see in the situation you described is that these people (the friends) aren't rokers. They just tagged along with their friend. They don't know the ettiquette we (as in roke nuts) expect in a show. So it's just ignorance.

Do they come in regularly? Try giving them a dose of their own medicine. Go nuts when one of your friends sings, then sit quietly when she gets up. Or better, turn your back to the stage. Or start a darts game (especically effective if you have to stand right in front of the stage to throw). Or get up as a group and go outside til her song is over.

Trust me...they'll get the hint.

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Paid2Party
"I love karaoke. Where else can you get paid to come out and party with your friends?"

Have to disagree there.....

I'm a pro singer.... I love karaoke too

No pressure to sound great, no pressure to get it right, doing what you love and having fun... that's what I get out of karaoke...

When I'm working, I don't get to sing what I want to sing... I have to sing what the audience wants to hear. If I don't keep the audience happy, I won't get many gigs. At karaoke, I can do what I want

Karaoke's about fun, whether you're pro or amatuer, I feel strongly that it's wrong to put down pro singers just because they have been blessed with a great voice.

That's not the spirit of karaoke.

FUN.... for everyone.

Paid2party wrote

"First, yes, my TV puts the singer in the position of facing the crowd. Who wants to spend the night looking at people's asses? (Well, I've been known to do that, but at least then I get to pick the asses.)

Second, yes, singers, PLEASE take your eyes off the screen! I'm there to sing for you and to listen to you sing to me. Please sing to me, not the TV, the floor, the ceiling, or the back wall.

And third, yes, please perform! Put on a show! Be all that, a bags of chips, a Diet Pepsi, and a Snicker bar, for crying out loud. This is your 15 minutes of fame. Take advantage of it."

.......At our shows we have the TV screens facing the audience so when/if a singer doesn't need the words they can look out at the audience and interact.



.....I wholeheartedly agree!! We shouldn't put down anyone, pro or not... Additionally, if someone wants to bring (insert # here) people with them to cheer them on, great! At least that way they know they will be applauded.....

Susie

_________________
You do it in the shower,
you do it in the car,
Ccome do it with us,
and be a star!!!!

Karaoke with Full House Entertainment

[scroll]Just because I have a short attention span doesn't mean...... [/scroll]

I don't think that it's the singing ability of the person singing in the example, it's the fact that the people that were there with her didn't applaud for anyone else and even booed. I'm here to do a show and let people have a good time. I sing during my shows, a lot if it's slow, little to none at all if it's busy. When it's busy I'll often bring someone up to sing with me to keep the other people involved and choose a song that everyone can dance or sing along to (I did 'Time Warp' last night in a crowded bar - it was great!). I would usually skip myself in rotation if it's as busy as it was last night, but I had a request by a couple people to sing a song and I try to make as many people happy as possible.

Whether someone is showing off or not isn't in the performance or the ability - it's in the attitude. The snooty, holier than thou attitude that's presented as they look down upon anyone that doesnt' sing better than they do. Since in their own mind they're the best or darn close to it - they look down upon almost everyone. These people don't applaud for others, but they expect everyone to applaud for them. It's this attitude that I detest at karaoke shows. If they want to have a show all about them book it somewhere else - I'm booked here to do karaoke which showcases EVERYONE. I spend good money for equipment which I'm almost constantly upgrading, for disks that I replace as new, better versions come out, for good mics, learning to mix the sound properly and I spend time and money to make sure my books are up to date and a large selection of songs so anyone that wants to sing can sing. I'm here to let you have a good time singing your heart out and have a good time doing it - I'm not here to deal with your lacksidaisical attitude toward others while you tout your greatness, we're here to have a good time.... I just wish more singers would think like this and leave the attitude at home.

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We applaud everyone at karaoke, some because they're awesome, sometimes, like me, because you're glad it's over!

QUOTE: Second, yes, singers, PLEASE take your eyes off the screen! I'm there to sing for you and to listen to you sing to me. Please sing to me, not the TV, the floor, the ceiling, or the back wall.

And third, yes, please perform! Put on a show! Be all that, a bags of chips, a Diet Pepsi, and a Snicker bar, for crying out loud. This is your 15 minutes of fame. Take advantage of it." UNQUOTE



Sorry P2P but when I first started karaoke there is no way I had it in me to perform for the audience. I was so nervous it was all I could do to concentrate on the words and what my voice was sounding like. It is only now, 2 yrs later, that I am able to sing without looking at a screen - and that is after a LOT of singing. I hope you don't tell your patrons they have to perform....that would send me out the door never to return.

karaokemeister - I guess that after all this time KJ'ing we have been really lucky not to run into as many snooty people as you have & that the ones we may run into don't have such a negative effect on us or our crowd. Or perhaps we aren't intuitive enough to see that kind of person, I don't know.....

What I do know is that as KJ's we lead by example & we try to treat everyone respectfully & not make negative assumptions... Again, given the example, how can we blame the singer for the reaction of her friends and how can we blame her friends, perhaps they don't know the courtesies we extend to each other, perhaps they were not nice people, who's to say....

Tigger, I don't think P2P was saying he expects every singer to look at the crowd or put on a performance, at least that is not what I was agreeing with. I took P2P as saying, Hey, if you want to put on a performace I'm all for it!! I won't think you are just showing off and trying to put others down, I know you are just having a great time at karaoke.

I have a great time doing karaoke and hope that others around me have a great time as well!! I try to get that attitude to rub off on as many people as possible, whether they sing like a bird or a cat on a hot tin roof!

Susie

_________________
You do it in the shower,
you do it in the car,
Ccome do it with us,
and be a star!!!!

Karaoke with Full House Entertainment

[scroll]Just because I have a short attention span doesn't mean...... [/scroll]