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 Post subject: Re: Licensing issues
PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:16 am 
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Hi,
Having been a karaoke disc producer myself my honest advice is don't do it.
I did loads of research and got requests from kj's of what they wanted to see on discs and thought if they are being asked for them then the discs would sell.
I pressed only 100 of each disc, advertised and got in touch with many of the major suppliers here in the UK to take the discs. 4 years after producing my 1st disc I still have quite a bit of stock left.
It seems that if you are not producing something new every month you very quickly go off people's radar and they stop ordering from you.

If it is something you still want to do then the easiest way to do it is as many people have suggested and that is to set up a company here in the UK and run everything through MCPS as you only have 1 company to go through to organise the rights.

Although this may not work for the project you want to do because you are limited to the number of tracks you can do on 1 disc per artist.

There is also an initial fee of £1000 payable to MCPS which is not refundable and they take off the money payable to the artists from this.

You seem quite certain this is something you want to do so I wish you good luck and if you want anymore info with regards to MCPS and licencing in the UK do not hesitate to contact me.


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 Post subject: Re: Licensing issues
PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:48 am 
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My big question is, what is it you think you'll be bringing to the table that the other major manufacturers aren't?

What will set your tracks apart from Zoom, SoundChoice, Chartbuster, SBI, Sunfly, Top Hits, etc?

What's going to make a KJ like myself want to reach for your version of a track as opposed to one of the major manufacturers?

As a working KJ in todays economic climate, I gotta be honest.. i'm not buying a lot of top dollar discs on a regular basis, besides a monthly 'current songs' disc or two.

Even if your renditions of the songs were mind blowing awesome and completely indistinguishable from the original track, i'd probably not be in a hurry to replace my 'good enough' tracks.

Of course there are people who would.. but that's a slim minority of an already slim market.

Just a bit of advice. Not trying to say don't do it.. just BEFORE you do it, have a product to bring to market that everybody else isn't already selling.

As Wayne Gretzky once said when asked why he was so successful on the ice, he said, “I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been.”

If you bring a wagon full of tomatoes to market, and everybody else is selling tomatoes, too.. you ain't going to sell many tomatoes. No matter how much better yours are than theirs.


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 Post subject: Re: Licensing issues
PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:39 am 
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Gnome Karaoke @ Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:16 am wrote:
I pressed only 100 of each disc, advertised and got in touch with many of the major suppliers here in the UK to take the discs. 4 years after producing my 1st disc I still have quite a bit of stock left.
It seems that if you are not producing something new every month you very quickly go off people's radar and they stop ordering from you.

What is the song list on the disc? I remember you asking at one time, but never saw a final product.

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 Post subject: Re: Licensing issues
PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:49 am 
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Are these discs the ones listed under the name Laughing Gnome Karaoke?


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 Post subject: Re: Licensing issues
PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:03 am 
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Laughing Gnome Karaoke Tracks for their only listed disc:

1)The Chauffer - Duran Duran
2)Love's Great Adventure - Ultravox
3)Talking Loud And Clear - OMD
4)Louise - Human League
5)Oh L'Amour - Erasure
6)I'm Ok - Christina Aguilera
7)Be My Baby - Vanessa Paradis
8)You're Gorgeous - Babybird
9)Bedsitter - Soft Cell
10)Davy's On The Road Again - Manfred Mann's Earth Band
11) Wanderlust - Paul McCartney
12) Fields Of Athenry - Irish Traditional

Scratching my head wondering why THAT disc isn't flying off the shelves!

Here's an example of someone putting together a disc for a niche market (karaoke) within a niche market (missing tracks/obscure 'B' side stuff).

I've not ever heard the disc, but it could be amazingly produced and performed. I wouldn't ever look for that disc, and neither would anyone I know, just because nobody is ever going to ask to sing any of those songs.

Major manus produce what they're reasonably sure they can sell.. and what they can sell is the stuff that's either popular and current, or the stuff that charted well.

Sure, there are people that may want to sing Wanderlust by Paul McCartney.. but they're the extreme minority of karaoke singer.. maybe one in 1,000.

But if you're willing to ship to the U.S., Gnome dude.. i'll buy one of 'em.. provided shipping isn't insane.

PM me, dude.


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 Post subject: Re: Licensing issues
PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:44 am 
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http://www.harryfox.com/index.jsp I've purchased rights to reproduce here in the past......


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 Post subject: Re: Licensing issues
PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:04 am 
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Obscure stuff, but really in a so limited area/tastes I imagine that would actually really want those songs. Not one of those songs I recognize or have ever had a request for - and I do keep track of every request that is made to me and there are some pretty off the wall/obscure requests.
Not a disc i'd purchase for the 'just to have' factor. This would definitely be an as needed purchase. So I can understand why it's not selling. If it is face requested songs from people, the 15 or so people probably bought the disc for the one song they wanted.

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 Post subject: Re: Licensing issues
PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:18 pm 
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theCheese @ August 23rd 2010, 1:03 pm wrote:
Laughing Gnome Karaoke Tracks for their only listed disc:

1)The Chauffer - Duran Duran
2)Love's Great Adventure - Ultravox
3)Talking Loud And Clear - OMD
4)Louise - Human League
5)Oh L'Amour - Erasure
6)I'm Ok - Christina Aguilera
7)Be My Baby - Vanessa Paradis
8)You're Gorgeous - Babybird
9)Bedsitter - Soft Cell
10)Davy's On The Road Again - Manfred Mann's Earth Band
11) Wanderlust - Paul McCartney
12) Fields Of Athenry - Irish Traditional

Scratching my head wondering why THAT disc isn't flying off the shelves!

Here's an example of someone putting together a disc for a niche market (karaoke) within a niche market (missing tracks/obscure 'B' side stuff).

I've not ever heard the disc, but it could be amazingly produced and performed. I wouldn't ever look for that disc, and neither would anyone I know, just because nobody is ever going to ask to sing any of those songs.

Major manus produce what they're reasonably sure they can sell.. and what they can sell is the stuff that's either popular and current, or the stuff that charted well.

Sure, there are people that may want to sing Wanderlust by Paul McCartney.. but they're the extreme minority of karaoke singer.. maybe one in 1,000.

But if you're willing to ship to the U.S., Gnome dude.. i'll buy one of 'em.. provided shipping isn't insane.

PM me, dude.


According to KJ Pro, there are 7 Laughing Gnome discs.


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 Post subject: Re: Licensing issues
PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:01 pm 
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Yes these are the discs from Laughing Gnome Karaoke.

Feel like this has gone bit off topic and apologies to the Mods if they feel the same.

There were 7 discs made although they are labelled 1 to 8, there was no disc 5 as I couldn't get the rights to several songs.

More info can be found here for track listings

www.gnomekaraoke.co.uk


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 Post subject: Re: Licensing issues
PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:33 pm 
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Gnome Karaoke @ 24th August 2010, 10:01 am wrote:
Yes these are the discs from Laughing Gnome Karaoke.

Feel like this has gone bit off topic and apologies to the Mods if they feel the same.

There were 7 discs made although they are labelled 1 to 8, there was no disc 5 as I couldn't get the rights to several songs.

More info can be found here for track listings

www.gnomekaraoke.co.uk


Not a problem: you were asked the questions and you responded.

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 Post subject: Re: Licensing issues
PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:58 am 
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nobodyhome @ Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:44 pm wrote:
http://www.harryfox.com/index.jsp I've purchased rights to reproduce here in the past......


Harry Fox doesn't license for karaoke use. They license mechanical production rights for 'covers' which do NOT include the printed nor synch'd lyrics to the song.

For example, local band 'We Rock' wants to put out an album. They have 9 original songs but at their concerts a crowd favorite has been their cover of 'Singing in the Rain'. They record the album - including singing in the rain - and pay Harry Fox the statutory rate for mechanical production of the album. The cost is per song - and has a minimum # of copies you have to pay for.

The minute you add lyrics, synchronized or not, the game changes radically. This requires a completely different license, as the lyrics have their own licensing issues, and the sync license isn't available from Harry Fox. For that you need to contact the owner of the copyright directly for the license.

And under none of these licenses can you use the orignal performance. That's why karaoke discs and even the 'Drew's' discs use 'In the Style of' to point out that it's not the original artists/performance.


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 Post subject: Re: Licensing issues
PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:57 am 
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I've used him for using the original in a few commercial productions....he used to have a few different licenses, but I haven't used him for a few years, so maybe things have changed. I've actually got permission from Sweaty Teddy, just by asking his permission. That was a great deal.....free


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 Post subject: Re: Licensing issues
PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:01 pm 
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Harry Fox is an agency.... ;)

http://www.harryfox.com/public/

From their website:
Quote:
What does HFA do?
The Harry Fox Agency represents music publishers for their mechanical and digital licensing needs. We issue licenses and collect and distribute royalties on our affiliated publisher's behalf. This includes licensing for the recording and reproduction of CDs, ringtones, and Internet downloads. HFA no longer issues synchronization (or synch) licenses for the use of music in advertising, movies, music videos, and television programs, but we do collect and distribute on synch licenses that were granted prior to our discontinuation of synch service in 2002. HFA also conducts royalty examinations, investigates and negotiates new business opportunities, and pursues piracy claims.

HFA delivers a diversified suite of copyright, licensing, royalty distribution, technology and consulting services to key music industry participants. HFA can provide our clients with speed-to-market and cost-efficiencies that eliminate the need to invest in infrastructure and staff to handle back-office functions.
HFA does not:

Issue synchronization (aka "synch") licenses for the use of music in advertising, movies, music videos and television programs.
Represent songwriters and publishers for the placement of their music in films and for use by other performers.
Administer performance rights that permit the play or performance of the music in a public setting such as a restaurant, concert hall, radio station, or nightclub.
Issue print rights that are required to change the lyrics, or to publish them in printed form.
Issue master use rights that permit the use of an original artist recording.
Provide clearance for the use of samples.
HFA is often confused with the performing rights societies, ASCAP, BMI and SESAC. Performing rights are separate and apart from mechanical rights, and are necessary to obtain for public performance of copyrighted music, such as at concerts, radio and television broadcasts, and the like. We suggest you contact these companies if you are interested in any performance rights or synch licenses. These companies also represent songwriters and publishers for the placement of their music in films and for use by other performers. We suggest you contact these companies if you are interested in only performance rights, synch licenses, or clearance for the use of samples. HFA does not provide any of these services.

Neither HFA nor the performing rights companies issue the rights for printed lyric reproduction.

For "master use" or sampling rights, you will also need to contact the owner of the master recording, usually the record company that issued the original recording. You can discover what record label issued the recording by looking it up on a retail website, such as Amazon.com.



Admittedly, there was a 'Harry Fox' years ago who was a circus and vaudville performer... but he's been dead for a very, very long time. (He died in 1959). It's been claimed that he's the originator of the 'Fox-Trot' - but sources vary as to whether that was true or not...


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 Post subject: Re: Licensing issues
PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:49 pm 
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I bought the rights from the Harry Fox Agency a while back to record one of Wynonna Judd's songs.(yes, i still have the license) Now I own more of the rights that she does.


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