Karaoke Forums

I went to the Scorpions/Dokken concert Friday night in Moline. First rock concert I've been to in almost 18 years. Had a blast, tried to save some of my voice for karaoke afterwards.

Since I was in the Quad Cities (population for the metro is over 300,000) I thought I would find a karaoke place or two to check out afterward as I've never seen any up there.

I googled online, found 7 or 8 but only a couple that advertised for Friday night karaoke. I called both, one said they have their own set up (uh oh) and the other said they have a professional host that brings his own set up. They said "stop on by, we have a blast!"

Set up my gps to find the places. Got to place A called
Tiddley Tap.


Oh boy. I thought I was having a nightmare. When I walked in the door, I should have turned around and walked out. But I ordered a beer, sat down and watched.

He wasn't digital so he could probably play customer disks. He had a pair of JBL 12" stacked. They looked worn out, sounded worn out. I couldn't tell what type of mic he had but it sounded very tinny. He had a light tree with 3 white par cans. He did have an overhead tv facing the audience (older tv but worked fine). BUT THE SOUND! So annoying. Dry, tinny, lousy! Total yucko. No transition music and he took about a minute between songs to get the next disk ready (after the singer was done. One tray player. I didn't see him doing any eq-ing and honestly I don't think his system had any eq features.

I've heard about crappyoke, and I've seen a few set ups that didn't measure up to anything close in my expectations but were good enough to sing at. This was the most pathetic I've ever seen!

I had a business black t shirt on for the concert (with my logo, business name, phone and email on it) but had brought a change of shirt as I thought that would be ultra tacky to go to another show with this shirt on. I almost had walked in with it on but remembered outside the door and went back and changed it.

I only took 2 drinks out of my beer as I knew I wasn't staying but during the 3rd song that was it! I was outta there! Nasty!

Bar #2. Big older bar on western side of Davenport. Parking lot full, parked down the street a half a block away. I thought this had the makings.

Walked inside, heard no karaoke type music. Walked all the way around the large bar (u shaped) went into the next room. Darn, no karaoke! I had called them and confirmed as well. Interesting. So, out the door I went to home. No karaoke this weekend!

Very disappointed, will have to try a different night of the week.

Woke up yesterday with no gig for last night. DJ friend texted me at noon, another DJ had contacted him asking him to fill in for a wedding. He had scratched his eye taking out his contact. Huh? I never use my fingernail but I don't know the details. So my friend was going to fill in for him IF I could do his karaoke/DJ gig. I took it, very good paying and I had filled in there once before.

Got there an hour and 10 minutes before the start time. Brought everything and used everything but my fog machine. Took me about 45 min.

Show went well, my software shut down once between singers but came back up quickly. Lots of dancing, there were 2 bachelorette parties going on and a town festival that day so it was hopping. Lots of singers and the dance floor was packed when I played dance songs. Some of the singers had some talent!

2 people asked for cards. One for a wedding and one a potential new owner who wanted a karaoke host for Saturday nights. So I might pick up a weekly gig at this other bar. Great set up with a huge stage and big room. I played there a couple weeks ago for a benefit. He's waiting to see if his offer is accepted. He told me I put on a hell of a show.

Ok so I did the crappyoke thing, and then I did mine. Huge freakin' difference! I'm just so glad this forum was here and helped me prepare my equipment and my style. I thought about telling the other host about our forum, but what's the point. Plus, I didn't want to offend him in any way, the manager seemed to be happy so sa la vie or however that is spelled!

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KingBing Entertainment C'mon Up! I have a song for you!!! [font=MS Sans Serif][/font]

Unfortunately, many peoples first (and last) exposure to karaoke is at shows like these. It's no wonder it get's a bad rap.

Hey Rip,

I have a buddy that hangs (virtually lives) at the Tiddley. Yup it's a real hole in the wall but I go there now & then to hang out with my friend. I've sung there quite a bit, although it's been 6 or 8 months since my last visit. Sounds like they've changed KJs recently. It used to be a woman (I believe her name was Mary Beth) that ran the show. She was a lot of fun and a decent host. But it does sound like the same crappy equipment - cdg's & even some lazer discs.

Haven't yet ran across a really good show in the QC's yet. I wish you would pick up a gig up here so I'd have some place to sing!

Hey Ronnie! Good to hear from you. I was actually going to comment that I wish you were still here so you could tell me where to go for good karaoke on the weekends.

I sent out fliers and cards to over 30 QC bars/grills in May and never got any responses. I even offered a one time special price so they could try me out. No takers. I wouldn't mind the drive for a Friday or Saturday regular gig. It would be good to see you again. I'll pm you for any upcoming gigs I have. Last night I was in Durant at the Dew Drop. Posted a few pics on facebook. You may add me on facebook if you like.

Take care and don't tell Tiddley's I said they have crappyoke! One man's non treasure is another man's treasure!

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KingBing Entertainment C'mon Up! I have a song for you!!! [font=MS Sans Serif][/font]

I still stop in here once or twice a week. I wish I could give you a tip on where to go. I'm still lookin. I have a friend who does a show just a few blocks from home. Still not what I'd call a good show, though. Definately let me know where you'll be playing. We don't get out much since I work nights, but would love to sing at your show again. You make me sound goooood :

Yeah, I won't publicize your Tiddley review. Some may take offense. It's not a bad place, though. Some of the folks are cool to hang out with. They even boast a local celeb ... Steve "the Raceman" Donovan (3pm-7pm timeslot on 97x) hangs out there. He cracks me up!

ripman8:

Did you ever think for a moment that some might think it is your show that is "crappyoke?" The show you went to wasn't like your show and therefore it was bad, if I understand you correctly. If I walk into a karaoke show and hear bumper music between singers and the KJ is hunched over his mixer I, like you, will take two sips off of my drink and leave. I'm not interested in showing off nor in watching other people show off. I want to drink, I want to meet people, and I want to have fun at a bar. None of these things are affected by the quality of the sound system. My point being that just because it's not my kind of karaoke show doesn't mean it's a bad karaoke show. A bad karaoke show is one that doesn't make money for the bar.

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Okay, who took my pants?

exweed, I'll let Ronnie answer that since I am biased.

Not that the patrons of the bar looked liked a bad crowd. Not that the host looked like a bad guy. But the sound was pretty cheesy.

I have yet to have anyone tell my my shows are bad. There may be someone out there that didn't like it but more likely due to the songs that were sung. I can honestly say I've had a lot of positive comments. As I think back over the summer gigs I have had, I've had nothing but kudos from the folks who have attended.

By the way Ronnie, I know of who you speak. He is for sure a local celebrity.

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KingBing Entertainment C'mon Up! I have a song for you!!! [font=MS Sans Serif][/font]

exweed:
Ripman puts on a really good show. Best sound of any that I've been to and the light show adds a lot. The main thing I liked about Rip was that he knows how to tweak the effects and eq to make the singer sound his best. THAT is what I find missing with most KJ shows that I've been to. At best, they know how to balance the mic levels. Rip makes me sound good!

You said:
"I want to meet people, and I want to have fun at a bar. None of these things are affected by the quality of the sound system."

Ok, you don't go to the bar for karaoke so the sound system is unimportant to you. That's reasonable. On the other hand, I ONLY go to a bar for the karaoke. So, while the equipment isn't the only thing, I do appreciate good sound. Doesn't make my viewpoint the only one, but certainly - everything else being equal - a good sound system & a KJ who knows how to use it only makes the show better.

Ripman:
I don't know about the KJ that was there that time, but I do agree with you - karaoke at the Tiddley isn't exactly state of the art. I do have fun singing there, but that doesn't have much to do with the equipment.

Farmer,

Style can be open to interpretation, but audio quality cannot. I think that's the point here. However, the majority of the population is tone def, and their ears have been spoiled by bad mp3's. They know no difference, which is detrimental to the KJ's with good ears.
There are two other shows in my area where my first impression was jaw on the floor. First one: no book, just printed pages stained with beer, out of order, and spilled on the floor with blown house speakers. Guess what, it's a complete hit. And this is a bar with a large population of musicians. They are however mostly rockers who may be turning their amps up too much, and boycotting earplugs in the name of whatever.
Second gig; Complete silence between songs, KJ acts like a stand up comedian while the assistant preps the next tune. Which would fall under the category of style, I happened to find it revolting, but strangely enough, that works there as well. And I bet they're doing it for $75 bucks a night.
Bad audio quality is just bad form. It should be avoided at all costs. The former would benefit from a better setup While the latter is open to interpretation.
It's a slap in the face to professionals who have the credentials to be there in the first place.
It would be like watching high school football players in the NFL, WRONG people where qualified individuals belong.

Oh Ronnie, you left out the most important thing from the quote, I go to drink! Karaoke is a bar toy like a pool table. Some bars have regulation tables brushed daily with new bumpers and felt that are flat as Kansas. Then some idiot spills beer on it, rips the felt, or throws somebody on top of it, not to mention the mysterious stains left by the bar staff after hours. No matter how nice the table is, it's still a toy for drunks.

I'm not saying that a good sound system is a bad thing I'm just saying it's not necessary. Three drinks down you can't tell the difference and karaoke patrons are supposed to be three drinks or more down. And I think michaeldiapers is right, most people can't tell the difference in any condition. However, when he talks about "Professionals" and "credentials" I think he might be off the beam. No two working KJs are going to bring the same skill set with them so no two shows will be alike. Good karaoke makes a profit for the bar and bad karaoke doesn't, in my view that is the only difference.

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Okay, who took my pants?

People might leave a karaoke show for many reasons, but they usually won't leave it because the place has a really good sound system. There will be some other reason they leave. You never hear a singer storming angrily out of a bar yelling, "That mic was great, the speakers were too awesome, the sound was terribly solid, I'm outta here eat my dust!" Varoooommmmm! On the other hand, you can have a bad system, and still have a popular show. Plenty of places do. But, on yet the other hand (this would be the third hand), people that get use to a good sound system, will probably prefer to sing on a good system, all other things being equal (of course, how often are all other things equal? Not too often.).

I'd be willing to bet there are more people who can tell whether a host is warm, engaging, funny, interesting, informative or otherwise entertaining than can tell the difference between a mp3 ripped at 128 and a wav file, a mediocre system than a great system, etc. It is after all ultimately a human business. Judging from what I've seen here I'm sure Ripman is a fine host in that department as well.


As far as ears being spoiled, let's start with how loud the world is today and how much loud music gets listened to with Ipods and other mp3 players through ear buds which are 6-9 dB louder than the old fashioned ear muff style headphones. Note the informal observations of this article where young people were exposing themselves to 110-120 dBm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/12/051216191834.htm

I'm not sure where that guy in the article got his numbers, but OSHA uses the following guidelines for avoiding hearing loss...

OSHA Daily Permissible Noise Level Exposure

Hours per day Sound level
8 90dB
6 92dB
4 95dB
3 97dB
2 100dB
1.5 102dB
1 105dB
.5 110dB
.25 or less 115dB

When karaoke is the main attraction 7 nights a week (for the last 18 years I might add), then yes sound systems & quality of song selection makes a huge difference over a bar that has a karaoke night for the drunks that could care less.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I have to disagree completely. People CAN tell the difference. Maybe not consciously like an audiophile, but they notice. If the sound is harsh, it fatigues your ears and makes you uncomfortable. If the sound if great, you enjoy yourself more. It's a show and all about creating a good mood & ambiance. Why do dance clubs spend so much on their sound systems? Everyone is drunk anyway and can't tell the difference right?

One of the best things I ever did was buy lights. Does it make someone sing better? No. Is it necessary? No. BUT it completely changed the mood of my shows for the better. It noticeably stepped things up a notch, even the manager mentioned it.

Crappyoke does have its function. The good-sounding shows with good selection are crowded. You don't get to sing much. At a crappy show, you can often get up and serenade the place a half-dozen times or more. Maybe no one is listening, but you get to sing.

And they keep the karaoke landscape interesting. Think how dull it would be to have shows stay at places for a long time. You could count on the gig being there and starting on time. Boring. With crappyoke, you get to play karaoke bingo -- you never know whether the show will be there or what time it will start!

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

I'll take boring and predictable over questionable and frustrating anytime!!! I've been to shows like Ripman described, and I gotta tell ya, it's hard to take for more than just a few minutes of a bad sound system. The ears start ringing, and you just want to ring someone's neck! Good sound systems don't put people on "edge", but bad ones, just might do it.

>>> Why do dance clubs spend so much on their sound systems? Everyone is drunk anyway and can't tell the difference right? <<<

Point on, and point taken. Same can be said for the movie experiance. THX and Dolby, why bother. Nobody cares....

Not likely.

Biggest complaint that I've heard at all shows I've attended; DJ, KJ, VJ and live; it's too loud.

That's a sign of crappy equipment too. At the best shows, you can experience the fullness and clarity of sound and still carry on a conversation. I get the compliment all the time -- "We liked how we could talk but still hear real well!"

If you have lousy equipment, you have to turn it up to sound "good".

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

In my experience, more often than not the "too loud" factor is usually more of an EQ problem than anything else. One of two culprits is usually to blame. Often the knucklehead at the controls decides he wants more "thump" so they crank up the sub-low on the EQ to dis-proportionate levels and drive the subs well into distortion. This makes it a physically fatiguing experience to listen to the music and the result is people think it's too loud. More commonly, the issue is mid-range frequencies that are far to prominent. This can happen with any form of PA (low or high quality) but definitely is more common in cheaper PA where less care is taken to keep things under control especially around the cross-over frequency. Regardless, the end result is that "ice-pick in the eye" harshness that become literally painful to listen to.

I actually went through an experiment with a colleague on exactly this behavior. I actually proved to him that my rig which sounded quieter, was actually producing higher SPL at the same distance. The difference was mine was not painful to listen to, thus less perceived volume.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

Then it means my ear might be getting better. I think my Driverack helps a lot, but I do adjust the crossover frequencies and eq from the baseline. Also, I am always bi-amped or tri-amped, which probably helps.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.