Karaoke Forums

When the rotation is LONG then following a strict rotation is even more important. If someone has waited for 60 or 120 minutes for their turn then they are going to want to sing ASAP usually. Flow etc is not going to matter as much in these cases. Yes sometimes some songs do not fit well following each other, but that is just a fact of life with karaoke crowds with diverse music tastes. If a song is not going to work "now" in the club it is not likely to work much better 2 songs later. Mixing the songs up might keep more people paying attention, the people who like one style might listen to the following song of a different style if they are mixed, but might leave or go outside if several songs in a row are a less liked style.

If the music styles are mixed for the night it is best to keep the songs relatively mixed up as well. If someone does not like Country music for example they might be annoyed by 3 country songs in a row, more than the same 3 songs spread out over 1 hour.

Yes the energy may ebb and flow thorugh the night, but unless the DJ is actually choosing the songs that the singers play (something I very much resist doing) it is really up to the singers. I allow last minute song changes when the singers walk up, so if a song that was submitted in a slower part of the night might be changed when the crowd and energy is different. It happens very often.

As for long rotations, yes it CAN happen in a weekly setting, I had a several week period where almost no-one got to sing more than once in my 3.5 hour shows.... Things slowed for a bit after that, but I usually get 20-35 singers a weeknight.

Yeah, screw them and their time. They aren't of any account, and their time is worthless. They're just palookas.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

I often find that my singers may come up to sing and want to switch their song to better match what was played previously. As long as they have it already submitted, I will generally allow it. In this way, the singers tend to "censor" themselves and try to go with the flow, if possible!

You kind of made my point. If you're out there singing and having a good time
9 minutes shouldn't matter. As I said as long as your not skipped and maybe just switched with the singer just behind you or a new singer inserted. What's the big deal. If you're one of those singers who is sitting there counting the singers and watching the clock, you're most likely the type that's complaining about something else also. --Rotations have to be FAIR and Consistent, but for god sakes those singers that get their panties in an uproar cause they had to wait A FEW MINUTES are to use your words PALOOKAS

just sit and relax and maybe buy another drink !!!

That wasn't the way it was read, but yes I agree someone coming in later should get a chance to sing at least one - but with that being said, if it's after cut off time for slips, then it doesn't matter - you don't sing if you just walked in, once I do a cut off, everyone that has a slip up knows they are going to sing that last time.

As a rule using my show as an example, if you can get there typically before 12 midnight, you are going to have a higher than average chance of singing at least 1, on rare occasions I have had to cut the slips off as early as 11:30, but that's not a typical night.

I get new singers worked into a round. I guess I am strict in the manner that no one gets moved/bumped for excuses or genre grouping. Let's just say I can pretty much try to make the effort that once you get your slip up, you won't see anyone that sang after that point, sing another song before you sing that slip.

Well this sounds bad, but if that table of 8 doesn't come back because we are too busy, then sorry. I would hope they would come back earlier next time, but there are reasons why it is busy.


If this person didn't get their slip in in time, then sorry, they are out of luck. If there is a way to squeeze them in, I might, but wouldn't guarantee them a spot & it might be the closing song if it happens. But then a karaoke club is alot different than a karaoke night here & there.



Again i'm not saying I cater to any early crowd, but it stands to reason that they are going to get up more (as they should) over a late comer. But I will add later singers all night long up until my cut-off point, then no one sticks another song in. Been doing it this way since 92 (7 nights at the same club). Do I get complaints, sure, do the late comers usually stick around anyway even if they don't sing - 9 out of 10 times, yes they do.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I was making a hypathetical, unrealistic scenerio. No host is going to be handed 60 individual different singers at one time.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

The big deal is singer perception, you may have worked the rotation to group a genre (for whatever reason), but now 3 singers (approx 15 minutes) are singing again ahead of the person that should have been singing before them. This gives the singer the impression the host is playing favorites or they are being blatently skipped. For karaoke singers, you may think it is not a big deal, but it really is to their perception. I know I do not return to shows that do this (no I usually do not complain to the host, just do not return).

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

If we have a large rotation and a new singer comes in an hour before we shut down, then the chances for them singing is slim to none. Do not expect to sing coming in that late when there is a huge rotation. Your only chence is if a lot of singers leave during that last hour.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Lonnie

Let me clarify from my original post ... 1 or 2 singer I have no problem with
the times listed were just random. so to keep MCKY happy ( who had nothing to add to this topic except negativity to my post)

So if a singer was scheduled to sing at 9:36 and had to wait until 9:45 ( 9 minutes )
Because as the host I decided to insert a new singer or switch the singer next I'll never have a problem with that. And the REGULAR singers who frequent shows shouldn't either. And I know as a singer if you're waiting and keep seeing people get up instead of you thats WRONG and not FAIR. But there are just too many variables concerning rotation to make it unable to be changed.

Case in point: One Customer at my Saturday shows usually there before many of the singers. He will sit there drink and have fun and decide late in the night to submit a song. Now do I make him wait or slip him in before the singer that already sang 4 songs ??? Who is to say what fair is ?

Once again, I do the exact same as Lon. I have a cutoff and if you come in after I've cut off for the night then sorry. It's called life. If I kept taking singers until I closed, I'd never close!
I usually cut off around midnight, but like Lonman, on busier nights, it may be as early as 11:30. If you come in at 12:45 and want to sing, well then sorry. I close at 1. Come earlier next time. And if you have to work, well then it sucks to be you. I also have to work and that means I can't go to a show down the road. It's called life. We're supposed to be adults and know all this stuff already. However, it seems to me that too many mothers have coddled their children for far too long and left them unprepared for the real world.
And again, like Lonman, 9 times out of 10 those singer wannabes don't leave. There's a reason it's busy in my bar, and the fact that it IS busy is why they stay. More happening here than down the street.
And Timber is also right. If you come too late, then you miss out.
Does the movie theatre hold the movie up or rewind it because you can't make it until 9:30 when the movie starts at 9:00?
It's called life. And life goes on, with or without you...

No, no one ever has to get home and go to work. Or take a babysitter home. Or do any of the other myriad activities of daily life. And if they do -- screw 'em! They're just palookas.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

There has to be a bit of respect for what the singers need to put on a good show because, really, they ARE the show. So while it should be viewed as fun and not every slip up made into a federal case, the singers need to have some idea of what is going on in order to feel confident that they will be able to make the most out of their turn when it comes. I used to like knowing who I followed so I wouldn't do a fast dance just before and get called up while out of breath. Or maybe I needed to time a bathroom break or know when to start escalating on the liquid courage. While it wasn't a major thing to me to have things fiddled with, it definitely messed with my "Psych Time."

It happened to me most Saturdays for two years. It was a nightmare to deal with some of the rude guests, which increased in number as the rotation exceeded about 40 singers. I asked them time and time again to change formats on Saturdays, but the venue management was inept and never could do anything useful with bands, DJs, or anything else. I finally quit doing Saturdays three weeks ago. They have been through two KJs since then and this past weekend had none at all, because the new guy didn't even show up. Pretty awesome!

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

I run my rotation very similar to what Lonnie describes.

I also want to add, it is about perception as well. If you run a FAST rotation, it is less obvious to people who are waiting, who may have to wait until 20 or 30 or 40 minutes. I am able to tell people, because of a Hoster feature, when they will sing. If it's too long for them, too bad, bye-bye, see you next time. But for heaven sakes, if you've got a long rotation, limit the time between the singers. In fact, sometimes I will even ask people if they want me to slow my rotation down a little - to which, of course, they all yell "NO!"

I think we have to use common (not so common anymore) sense as well -- if at the end of your night a large group of people who you may know, or who people in your venue may know, walks in and wants to sing, and you've still got over an hour, and you know that they are going to buy at least two rounds, you betcha, I find a place for them in the rotation...with the proviso that they'll probably only get one song in, so please choose carefully (or bring a different song up when they get called if they change their mind). This happened at my Fri night show this past weekend. A friend of mine came in with a band that had played an early gig ... they were in the mood to relax and chill out after their gig, and they all sang. Nobody complained when they got to sing, but I also made sure that I placed them between the singers who had been there all evening.

ROTFLMAO

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

Ms. 'Livid' when she gets bumped by a new arrival and has to wait a whole 3 minutes and 14 seconds before she gets to grace the audience with her karaoke song.

That's life.

I sure do wish some people would grow up and lose the troll-like behavior. It's tiring and adds nothing to the conversation at hand, except to cause strife and discord.

And the fact of the matter is, I will leave a bar and take my business elsewhere where singers get bumped around, shown favoritism, etc, as is my choice and right to do.
THAT'S life.

It’s all perception on the singers’ part; if the singer(s) perceive that the KJ is unfairly running the rotation there is little to be done to their satisfaction short of angering other singers to pacify the first set of malcontents.

Example: Three ladies (A,B, & C) each put in a request (one-after-the-other). Now, the ladies each want the other two to sing with them. The perception by the rest of the audience is that I’m letting them take over; when in reality it is no different than each lady signing alone. But it is still a perception that I’m being unfair to the rest.

Your assertion that there is no difference to the overall rotation may very well be true, but others; singers and those participating in this thread, may not perceive your intentions the same as you.

We as KJs all start out to do what we believe to be best, and over time we may adjust our procedures as the clientele and venue management dictate. There is no one “correct” procedure that works for everyone.

Some new singers are either going to accept the local procedure or they’ll continue looking for a place that fits their expectations.

So you do what works for you, and if you believe the rest of us are robots because our way is not your way, you're entitled to your opinion as is everyone else here.

Personally, I take no exception either way.

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EveningStar Entertainment & Events
JR & Michele LaPorte
Peoria, AZ

No you're the palooka !! -- Why do you take things and twist them so you have something to argue about!. Listen if you're singer and have somewhere to go --let me know ! I'll accomodate you ! If you're just another whiney azzed singer drinking their one and only water and looking for something to complain about ...heres a clue ... No bodys like you and most prefer you go to another show

In cases like this, if it's not very busy and there are few singers (usually early in the night), I will probably allow it to stand as is. But when it gets busy, I make sure to let them know that they will get one song per rotation and if they do group songs, that counts as their one. Often, they will choose one song as a group and leave it at that and skip the individuals. It's the only way to avoid the perception outlined above and also makes room for everyone to have a chance to sing.
Perception really is everything...

Agreed, perception is everything. Early on in doing this I had shows where singers got upset because they felt I wasn't being fair. Despite everyone getting to sing once in each rotation, some argued that I was not being fair by putting people in different orders in different rotations. So I didn't change my rotation but did modify how I communicate with the audience.

My rotation is pretty simple, I run it in "rounds" no one sings more than once per "round". Now that said I may move a couple singers into a different order if there are some songs that I feel should go together, however that's rare. I do also add new singers to wherever we are in the rotation, usually 2 songs after when they hand me this slip. They have to go somewhere and I think it's good practice to give a new face a quick chance to get up there at least once. Another thing I do that addresses the song grouping strategy is I will change the order of the songs someone hands me. If we've just had a bunch of slow songs and they have one in the queue next, but have a more up beat song in a later rotation, I will switch them as long as they have not given me specific instruction that they want their songs in a certain order. Some are surprised by this others have no clue what to expect next so they don't care. Again, I've just learned how to let people know in a subtle way that this is how I do things and it goes fine.

I think the key isn't so much that you run a rotation in a certain way, it's that you're consistent with whatever way you choose to do it and that you somehow give them an idea of what to expect. If people think you're giving preferential treatment to one person over another, they'll say you're unfair. As long as they believe you're treating everyone the same way according to the same system (whatever it is) they seem to be ok with that.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke