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jamkaraoke
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 Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:35 pm |
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**** Please all you cry babies read the ORIGINAL POST*****
It's not about running UNFAIR rotations it was about bumping 1 or 2 singers up to IMPROVE the flow of the show.
And MCKY if you're singer who has to leave to GO TO WORK or GET HOME TO YOUR CHILDREN or HAVE OTHER PLANS and you CAN'T WAIT an additional 15 minutes and are BOTHERED that you couldn't sing one more song ..you better get a hold of your priorities. 
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jr2423
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Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:38 pm |
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diafel @ Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:27 pm wrote: jr2423 @ Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:18 pm wrote:
Example: Three ladies (A,B, & C) each put in a request (one-after-the-other). Now, the ladies each want the other two to sing with them. The perception by the rest of the audience is that I’m letting them take over; when in reality it is no different than each lady signing alone. But it is still a perception that I’m being unfair to the rest.
In cases like this, if it's not very busy and there are few singers (usually early in the night), I will probably allow it to stand as is. But when it gets busy, I make sure to let them know that they will get one song per rotation and if they do group songs, that counts as their one. Often, they will choose one song as a group and leave it at that and skip the individuals. It's the only way to avoid the perception outlined above and also makes room for everyone to have a chance to sing. Perception really is everything... Yes, I've heard of the "group" procedure as well. If that's what works for you and yours then that's what you do. It shouldn't matter to anyone (other than your singers and venue) how you proceed.
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jamkaraoke
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Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:38 pm |
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letitrip @ Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:32 pm wrote: Agreed, perception is everything. Early on in doing this I had shows where singers got upset because they felt I wasn't being fair. Despite everyone getting to sing once in each rotation, some argued that I was not being fair by putting people in different orders in different rotations. So I didn't change my rotation but did modify how I communicate with the audience.
My rotation is pretty simple, I run it in "rounds" no one sings more than once per "round". Now that said I may move a couple singers into a different order if there are some songs that I feel should go together, however that's rare. I do also add new singers to wherever we are in the rotation, usually 2 songs after when they hand me this slip. They have to go somewhere and I think it's good practice to give a new face a quick chance to get up there at least once. Another thing I do that addresses the song grouping strategy is I will change the order of the songs someone hands me. If we've just had a bunch of slow songs and they have one in the queue next, but have a more up beat song in a later rotation, I will switch them as long as they have not given me specific instruction that they want their songs in a certain order. Some are surprised by this others have no clue what to expect next so they don't care. Again, I've just learned how to let people know in a subtle way that this is how I do things and it goes fine.
I think the key isn't so much that you run a rotation in a certain way, it's that you're consistent with whatever way you choose to do it and that you somehow give them an idea of what to expect. If people think you're giving preferential treatment to one person over another, they'll say you're unfair. As long as they believe you're treating everyone the same way according to the same system (whatever it is) they seem to be ok with that.
BINGO .....I think that's what most are saying
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mckyj57
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Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:41 pm |
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jamkaraoke @ Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:27 pm wrote: mckyj57 @ Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:21 pm wrote: jamkaraoke @ Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:25 pm wrote: mckyj57 @ Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:06 pm wrote: jamkaraoke @ Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:56 am wrote: SO what if the singer sings at 9:50 pm instead of 9:36pm.
Yeah, screw them and their time. They aren't of any account, and their time is worthless. They're just palookas. You kind of made my point. If you're out there singing and having a good time 14 minutes shouldn't matter. No, no one ever has to get home and go to work. Or take a babysitter home. Or do any of the other myriad activities of daily life. And if they do -- screw 'em! They're just palookas. No you're the palooka !! That's right -- I'm just a palooka! You can ignore my wants and feelings. Quote: Why do you take things and twist them so you have something to argue about! That's not what I am doing. If you think that it doesn't matter to people when they sing, fine, continue to live on in your belief. Quote: Listen if you're singer and have somewhere to go --let me know ! I'll accomodate you ! No, you'll accomodate the person in front of me who will ask for that stuff because "they have to leave". If you don't accommodate them or if you do, they'll still be there in an hour. (At least that's my experience.) Quote: If you're just another whiney azzed singer drinking their one and only water and looking for something to complain about ...
I would say you are the one looking for a reason to attack someone, lying by claiming I don't spend any money. Wanting to sing and use your time how you want doesn't mean you don't spend anything. In fact, because I do spend money it gives me reason to think the karaoke host ought not to be tossing my time in the toilet.
Do shows get along without me? Sure they do. And if you live in the kind of area where you can just screw with people and get away with it and keep your shows long term, more power to you. But I see a lot of shows die, and the ones that play footsie with the rotation don't last long where I live.
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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.
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diafel
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Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:43 pm |
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letitrip @ Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:32 pm wrote: Another thing I do that addresses the song grouping strategy is I will change the order of the songs someone hands me. If we've just had a bunch of slow songs and they have one in the queue next, but have a more up beat song in a later rotation, I will switch them as long as they have not given me specific instruction that they want their songs in a certain order.
I also do this occasionally, especially when the girl who's there every week gives me the same Celine Dion songs that NO ONE is ever able to sing and usually puts the crowd to sleep. If she has a Pat Benatar song in, I'll throw that up first and push the ones shes overdone it with to the bottom. letitrip @ Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:32 pm wrote:
I think the key isn't so much that you run a rotation in a certain way, it's that you're consistent with whatever way you choose to do it and that you somehow give them an idea of what to expect. If people think you're giving preferential treatment to one person over another, they'll say you're unfair. As long as they believe you're treating everyone the same way according to the same system (whatever it is) they seem to be ok with that.
And this is exactly it. It's important to let singers know how you do your rotation, especially new ones as they may not understand what you're doing.
My personal choice is to avoid shows that use the "grouping method", since that can allow for one singer to get up several times before another singer gets one in.
Also, it can mean that singer A sings and then the genre changes, so singers B, C, and D sing several songs before singer A can sing again, which means that singer A has had to wait much longer between their songs than any of the others.
But then, that's my choice, isn't it?
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jr2423
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Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:56 pm |
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jamkaraoke @ Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:35 pm wrote: **** Please all you cry babies read the ORIGINAL POST***** It's not about running UNFAIR rotations it was about bumping 1 or 2 singers up to IMPROVE the flow of the show. And MCKY if you're singer who has to leave to GO TO WORK or GET HOME TO YOUR CHILDREN or HAVE OTHER PLANS and you CAN'T WAIT an additional 15 minutes and are BOTHERED that you couldn't sing one more song ..you better get a hold of your priorities. Yes, your “Original Post” implies that you took exception to a respondent’s comments in a previous thread. And in response created a new thread where you further made your case for the procedure you follow, and as much accused anyone else of being a robot who didn’t subscribe to your rotation philosophy.
And we’re crybabies…
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mckyj57
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Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:09 pm |
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jr2423 @ Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:56 pm wrote: jamkaraoke @ Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:35 pm wrote: **** Please all you cry babies read the ORIGINAL POST***** It's not about running UNFAIR rotations it was about bumping 1 or 2 singers up to IMPROVE the flow of the show. And MCKY if you're singer who has to leave to GO TO WORK or GET HOME TO YOUR CHILDREN or HAVE OTHER PLANS and you CAN'T WAIT an additional 15 minutes and are BOTHERED that you couldn't sing one more song ..you better get a hold of your priorities. Yes, your “Original Post” implies that you took exception to a respondent’s comments in a previous thread. And in response created a new thread where you further made your case for the procedure you follow, and as much accused anyone else of being a robot who didn’t subscribe to your rotation philosophy. And we’re crybabies… Yes, and palookas too. If we don't like the way people are running over the top of us, we should take off our DOORMAT sign!
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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.
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jamkaraoke
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Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:16 pm |
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jr2423 @ Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:56 pm wrote: jamkaraoke @ Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:35 pm wrote: **** Please all you cry babies read the ORIGINAL POST***** It's not about running UNFAIR rotations it was about bumping 1 or 2 singers up to IMPROVE the flow of the show. And MCKY if you're singer who has to leave to GO TO WORK or GET HOME TO YOUR CHILDREN or HAVE OTHER PLANS and you CAN'T WAIT an additional 15 minutes and are BOTHERED that you couldn't sing one more song ..you better get a hold of your priorities. Yes, your “Original Post” implies that you took exception to a respondent’s comments in a previous thread. And in response created a new thread where you further made your case for the procedure you follow, and as much accused anyone else of being a robot who didn’t subscribe to your rotation philosophy. And we’re crybabies… I didn't start this new thread .... DUH DUH !!!!
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diafel
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Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:26 pm |
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mckyj57 @ Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:09 pm wrote: If we don't like the way people are running over the top of us, we should take off our DOORMAT sign!
It's easy. Just go to another venue.
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jamkaraoke
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Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:28 pm |
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mckyj57 @ Mon Aug 30, 2010 4:09 pm wrote: jr2423 @ Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:56 pm wrote: jamkaraoke @ Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:35 pm wrote: **** Please all you cry babies read the ORIGINAL POST***** It's not about running UNFAIR rotations it was about bumping 1 or 2 singers up to IMPROVE the flow of the show. And MCKY if you're singer who has to leave to GO TO WORK or GET HOME TO YOUR CHILDREN or HAVE OTHER PLANS and you CAN'T WAIT an additional 15 minutes and are BOTHERED that you couldn't sing one more song ..you better get a hold of your priorities. Yes, your “Original Post” implies that you took exception to a respondent’s comments in a previous thread. And in response created a new thread where you further made your case for the procedure you follow, and as much accused anyone else of being a robot who didn’t subscribe to your rotation philosophy. And we’re crybabies… Yes, and palookas too. If we don't like the way people are running over the top of us, we should take off our DOORMAT sign! 
Okay now because you have to wait 9 minutes ONCE you are being run over and made to be doormats. ----little dramatic don't you think ?
We are not talking about running a wild rotation policy here ....The topic was making an adjustment by 1 or 2 people the most ONE TIME in a night ... not every rotation
YOU ARE UNBELIEVABLE  
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mckyj57
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Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:45 pm |
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diafel @ Mon Aug 30, 2010 4:26 pm wrote: mckyj57 @ Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:09 pm wrote: If we don't like the way people are running over the top of us, we should take off our DOORMAT sign! It's easy. Just go to another venue. That's what I do, no huhu. But if a karaoke host is puzzled at why some people don't come back, perhaps I have provided a clue.
I don't have any problems with this. I get along fine. My panties are never bunched. I take life as it comes -- I have a blast. I am a very lucky man -- I get to go to karaoke a lot, so I go to a lot of shows and I see the gamut. If the host doesn't do things the way I like I just don't come back. I will confess I don't much like showing up for a show that claims to start at 9pm and no one has sang at 10, but I have gotten used to the fact that many karaoke hosts don't give a darn what they do with my time.
But that won't stop me from sharing why I do vote with my feet. And apparently spinning some people up when I do. Now if they could be some of the same hosts that waste an hour of my time by starting at 10 when their schedule says 9pm start...nah, that's too much to ask.
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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.
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BruceFan4Life
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Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:34 pm |
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I'm going to try to be short and sweet. Those nine minutes that someone had to wait could be the difference between that person singing one more song at the end of the night or being told..."sorry, we're out of time for any more songs. The three people that were originally behind him are now in front of him because the KJ thought their songs fit better. That would only happen to me ONCE. I went to a bar earlier this summer that advertised a Karaoke starting time of 9PM. I got there at 10PM and the KJ was sitting at the bar waiting for the bar manager to decide if they wanted to pay for karaoke that night because the place wasn't very crowded. I left and I haven't been back. I don't like wasting my time. Maybe after the summer is over I may give the place another chance when more of their regular crowd may not be heading south on the weekends.
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theCheese
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Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:41 pm |
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diafel @ Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:13 pm wrote: theCheese @ Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:07 pm wrote: diafel wrote: However, it seems to me that too many mothers have coddled their children for far too long and left them unprepared for the real world. ROTFLMAO Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Ms. 'Livid' when she gets bumped by a new arrival and has to wait a whole 3 minutes and 14 seconds before she gets to grace the audience with her karaoke song. That's life. I sure do wish some people would grow up and lose the troll-like behavior. It's tiring and adds nothing to the conversation at hand, except to cause strife and discord. And the fact of the matter is, I will leave a bar and take my business elsewhere where singers get bumped around, shown favoritism, etc, as is my choice and right to do. THAT'S life. Grow up and lose the troll like behavior? It was YOU who brought peoples childhood into this thread, not me. Which, not so coincidently, added nothing to the conversation at hand. I just chose to call you out on your hypocrisy.
You're quick to tell people, "That's life" and "Deal with it" but seem completely incapable of dealing with anything that doesn't fit within your idea of how things should be.
You decry them as "Unfair" and get "Livid"
Well guess what, sugar pop? Life isn't fair. People get bumped.
That's life. Deal with it, or throw a tantrum and go some other place.
It IS your right to take your business elsewhere, just like it IS the right of patrons to do the same when they don't like your show.
What I notice around here is a whole lot of people who are just seemingly incapable of looking at both sides of the coin.
What works in a 7 days a week serious karaoke bar isn't going to work in a bar that has karaoke a couple nights a week.
You've got the serious, hard core karaoke singers.. and then you've got the casual singers.. and then you've got people who only sing when they're in a group and drunk.. and as long as the bar is making money, who cares what group the club fills up with.
Cater to the crowd you have.
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seattledrizzle
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Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:57 pm |
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theCheese @ Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:08 am wrote:
If some fuddy duddy wants to get their panties in a bunch because they might have to wait an extra 3 minutes to sing their 8th song of the night, so a new person gets a chance to sing at least ONE song.. well then they must have missed the lesson in Kindergarten that discussed sharing.
What about that lesson in Kindergarten about keeping your place in line and its corollary which every Kindergarten kid knows, "No Cuts!" 
Even if you are the greatest karaoke singer that ever lived with the hottest moves, the true King of Karaoke, if you sing at enough shows you will eventually come to one where for some reason your song doesn't fit in, and now you are the person who gets bumped. My guess is if this happens on a few diffferent nights, this singer will take their songs elsewhere to a show where the rotation is consistent.
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diafel
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Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:29 pm |
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Cheese, I'm going to ask this only once and I'm going to ask nicely.
Please do not respond to my posts in the future unless you can be civil about it and not sling personal attacks. It's simply not necessary and has no place here. I am doing my best to ignore you and I will do my best to continue to do so.
Perhaps I don't always have the best choice in wording and perhaps sometimes I do. My choice of the word "livid" was to emphasize a point and nothing more.
It's not necessary to keep slinging it in my face every chance you get just because you don't like or agree with what I have to say. That kind of behavior IS troll-like and childish, whether you choose to admit it or not, and I'm about done with it.
Now I ask you one last time to please leave me alone and not get personal. It's not necessary and has no place here in this, or any other discussion.
From here on out, I will do my best to continue to be civil towards you no matter what you sling at me and I would appreciate the same from you.
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toqer
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Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:15 pm |
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theCheese
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Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:16 pm |
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seattledrizzle @ Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:57 pm wrote: theCheese @ Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:08 am wrote:
If some fuddy duddy wants to get their panties in a bunch because they might have to wait an extra 3 minutes to sing their 8th song of the night, so a new person gets a chance to sing at least ONE song.. well then they must have missed the lesson in Kindergarten that discussed sharing.
What about that lesson in Kindergarten about keeping your place in line and its corollary which every Kindergarten kid knows, "No Cuts!" Well I guess if you're in a LINE then 'No Cuts' would apply.
Do you stand in line at your local karaoke bar? Do you sign up on a signup sheet with numbers next to your name?
Handing in a slip to a Karaoke host isn't like getting in line at a water fountain. People who have a melt down because last rotation they sang BEFORE Sally, and this rotation they sang AFTER Sally need to be medicated.
I can't even believe some of you people. With all the troubles going on in the world, you pick something like having to wait an extra 5 minutes to sing your song to get you in a tizzy.
What about when you get bumped AHEAD and get to sing your song EARLIER because your selection fits better with what's currently on deck? To you tamp your feet and storm out of the place THEN?
Protesting the unfair practice of letting you 'line cut' because you didn't stroll into the club until 11pm? Do you throw a fit and vow never to return when you get to sing before the person you were behind in the last rotation?
Doubt it.
And i'm the person who needs to grow up.
It would be funny if it wasn't so sad that in a society where war, famine, crime, disease, hunger, global warming, and the Ice Capades (R.I.P. George) wreak havoc THIS is what folks choose to get a bee in their bonnet over.
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mckyj57
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Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:20 pm |
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theCheese @ Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:16 pm wrote: It would be funny if it wasn't so sad that in a society where war, famine, crime, disease, hunger, global warming, and the Ice Capades (R.I.P. George) wreak havoc THIS is what folks choose to get a bee in their bonnet over.
Ah, the venerable "get a life" defense.
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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.
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Dr Fred
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Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:25 pm |
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I really beg to differ, if a person has waited patiently in line for 1 hour for their turn to sing, 5 minutes longer wait may seem like a big thing to them.
If they have to wait for a "fair" reason (the other guy turned in the song first) most singers can tollerate it, but for pretty much any other reason you risk loosing a singer, if not this night but on future nights.
And yes, I have had 60 slips turned into me by separate singers before the first 5 songs have been sung. (rarely but it has happened).
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purpletib
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Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:04 pm |
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I always put new singer in within 5 songs. However, the drunks that come in near the end of the night expecting to sing (often multiple songs) I would rather tell "piss off."
However, I recently went to a horrible karaoke show that was running a contest for a big local event - what a great example of crappyoke! All cheap equipment, only 2500 songs, half of which were illegally burned copies, and only a dozen people in attendance for a 3 hour show.
I showed up an hour into the show. Everyone was singing doubles, and I saw at least 3 singers go up twice before me. I was the last singer of the night for my first song! Two hours for a rotation of about a dozen singers. That is just bad hosting IMHO. The contest is actually this Saturday, I decided against actually running, and probably wont even go to watch. Just really that put off by this company.
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