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I started a Saturday night gig 3 years ago for 125 cash. I was running a decent set up but my selection was limited. It was my first gig ever on my own. It took forever to build up a crowd and eventually I was laid off. I was then called again to come back when it got busier. The only problem is that the owner was only willing to pay 100 cash. Since I wasn't making that much more at my part time job then, I agreed. Since then, business has been booming and a couple months ago I was informed I was going to recieve a 1099 this year. Fine, I have no problem running a legitimate business and would actually prefer it that way. BUT my take home is 50 dollars less now that when I started when you figure in the taxes and I have upgraded nearly everything in my system. I'm putting out more and getting less. I recently sat down with the owner and was told that I would get a raise but he'd have to talk to his wife... He also raised concern about paying 150 on a slow night. I asked him "When someone orders a hamburger from you and doesn't eat it all do you refund them for the part they don't eat?" Of course not. Big nights make up for the slow nights. At this point I've worked 1 night since the discussion and was paid by his bartender with you guessed it, a c-note. I'm 99.9% sure I'm going to tell him $150 or I'm out but I thought I'd see what you all had to say. By the way, my area is saturated with KJ's and it truly is hard to get a new gig in this area. Also, I know for a fact that he can hire another KJ in particular with a decent selection (not as good as mine) for 100 cash however I don't think he's going to be able to drop a 1099 on him either. I put on a great show every night, although my attitude has suffered due to this issue. So... what would you do?

Sounds like he could get someone for less than $100.

Your call.

Ultimately the call is yours based on your financial needs.

I was in a similiar situation a few years ago and eventually had to find another gig that paid me what I was WORTH.

I would ask for the $150 per night...EVERY NIGHT --busy or not.
Karaoke to be succesful needs to be consistent every week or at least as scheduled if its once per month etc.

If the owner won't come up with the extra money.... KEEP THE JOB as money is money but actively look for a better paying gig. WHEN you find it ..say SEA YA and don't look back !!!

If you could trust the owner, you could negotiate a percentage or bonus when the till is over a certain amount but that won't work if you can't trust the till count. But others on here have done that and made it work. If you have a bartender that realizes you are bringing in people and thus raising his tips, he may realize the value of you staying and will be straight with you.


There are some who will say don't ever give in or you won't climb back up and they are correct that it is hard to do. But the economy is so bad in some areas that if you take the all or nothing approach on fees, a bar may get rid of karaoke all together because the realty is, the nights aren't what they used to be.

If you are going legit as a business, you will need to make a minium amount or you will end up paying to play. You will have increased costs like taxes, licenses, etc. My ideal would be a minimum fee to cover expenses plus a percentage of anything over a certain amount of the till. But I know of people who go straight percentage and if they bar has a bad night, so do they, but if the bar has a good night they clean up. You could always ask to see the Z tape.......

Don't forget you have a TON of tax write off's with your business.

In fact I would bet that with a wage so small, you will have a loss on paper that will get you all of your tax withholding back. Gas, Vehicle maintenance, Equipment, Music, keep receipts for EVERYTHING. If you grab a burger on the way home at McDonalds, get a receipt. You will be amazed at how it adds up over the course of a year.

Well.. hindsight being 20/20, i'd say where you boned yourself was agreeing to work 'over the table' for the $100 a night.

I'd have told the dude flat out.. if a 1099 is involved, then i'm going to need more moola.

Now that you're in it for the $100, it's hard to go up.

Big nights make up for the slow nights.. provided you've got more big nights than slow ones.

If you do have more big nights than slow ones, that's your only leverage in the negotiations.. and even that position is kind of weak.. because unless you've really branded yourself with something unique, the bar owner is thinking he can replace you quick and for the price he wants to pay and still get the same crowds.

Normally i'd say come up with your bare minimum nightly rate.. the absolute least you can continue doing the gig for, then pitch him a number higher than that.. so when he counter offers, you can accept and come out ahead.. but you've already pitched him the $150 number.. which in most secondary markets is about the top of the pay scale for a KJ in a neighborhood bar.

Next time you see him, i'd remind him of your previous discussion, and ask him if he had a chance to talk to his wife. If he doesn't want to budge off the $100, then suggest continuing with the $100 a night, but off the books/under the table.

If he's stuck on the $100 AND putting it on the books with a 1099.. then the only solution is to tough it out and keep your eye out for another gig to replace it with.

Many places i've worked over the years just need something to give their accountant.. especially in places that have silent partners or investors. What they really need is something to show they paid that $100 to somebody and not just sticking the cash in their pockets every night.

You might ask if you can loose the 1099 and just give the dude signed receipts for the pay each night.

Personally, I wouldn't work anywhere for $100, to me that's not even worth the time of driving and loading in/out. But that's a personal choice on your part. You're in the classic position of playing chicken here and you have to decide when you think the bar owner will flinch.

So how badly do you need the gig? If you're relying on the money and are better off with $100 than nothing, than do it. If the cost to you doing the gig whittles down your profits to a point where it's not even worth it, well then make the ultimatum. The fact is, if you're going to make an ultimatum, you better already be assuming that they'll not comply. I'm sure if someone did statistical analysis on it, ultimatums are probably only successful 15% of the time or so. More often than not, in my experience, they're met with "well fine than do what you need to" (and I'm talking in general terms here, not just in pay negotiations like this).

So what you have to consider are the knowns. You know what profit you're getting from the show, you know what amount you need to get from your show to make it worth while or to meet your bills, etc. What you don't know is how much the bar owner can and/or will spend for Karaoke, so you can't worry about that. Make your decision based on what you do know and if the bar isn't cutting it at what they're paying you now, demand more or find another gig.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

If you don't need the gig, walk if your raise isn't implemented - I have paid hosts that ($100) just to run MY equipment. I doubt you will get it as the others said, the bar is used to paying $100 (your biggest mistake for going back to work for that prive after he knew you made $125 before). Now the bar knows they can probably get anyone in there for $100 or even less. The fact that the owner brought up the slow night issue, tells me you aren't getting your raise.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Hmmm Just an idea.

What if you negotiated $100 to set up and then a certain amount of money per hour. Say $50 for 2 hours. Then if it's busy they pay you to stay longer.

I'm trying to think of something that would work for you. I personally wouldn't work for so little money, but it sounds like you're stuck in a situation.

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[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

I've filled in for a couple guys over the years and $75 to $100 a night for a four hour gig was pretty much the going rate for a hired guy to do the show, using the employers equipment and music.

Of course, these were higher end venues that were likely paying twice that to have the KJ there.

I've worked in towns from the Atlantic to the Rockies, and from central Florida to central Wisconsin.. and it seems $125 to $175 is the going rate for a 4 hour karaoke show in a bar for your typical mom and pop corner bar kind of place.

Probably 1 out of every 4 places i've worked will ask me to cut 'em a break at the end of the night if things were lean that night.. but I remind them that I don't get any extra on the 'fat' nights.

You know the whole saying.. a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. If you enjoy the gig, have a good time doing it, and draw a decent crowd, I wouldn't bail until you have something lined up to replace it.

Perspective bar employers almost always ask, "Where are you playing now?" and often times like to come out and check out your show before hiring you.. just to see how you sound and run the show.. gauge crowd reaction, etc.

So from that perspective, your $100 a night gig is actually worth more than the green you walk out of the club with at the end of the night.

I mean.. my gear is all paid for, so when I do a show it doesn't cost me anything but my time, and the gas to get to and from the gig.

Assuming a 4 hour show with a half hour set up and half hour tear down time, we're talking 5 hours of work, or $20 per hour.

Unless the club is full of savages that beat up your gear and you're constantly having to replace mics and books or whatever.. it's really hard to see why a person would just up and quit a $20 an hour job without having something to immediately replace it.

Wear and tear on your vehicle and your equipment, including things like replacing beaten up books, are all included in the cost of doing business, as is depreciation on your equipment. Keep it until you have something else. I won't unload for $100. You teach people how to treat you.

That's a great answer to give them when they want a break! I'll have to remember it!

Quite agree diafel.

Cheese.
Stop the reality and post a fairy story.

There is so many ways to go with this it's not even funny....

But the biggest issue is:

Why you and not someone else?


If you can't answer that then you don't deserve more than the $100 it would cost to replace you.


If you are responsible for the 'bigger nights' then they should pay you more. Period.

BTW, expect to prove it if you're challenged.


On a side note: If you're working under the table, if you don't declare the income then you have nothing to write off. In other words, if you're running a legitimate business, complete with write-offs, then the 1099 shouldn't make any difference. They could pay you in cash, check to you, check to the company, or any number of other ways - and it should have no impact on the final accounting of how much you get paid.

My suggestion is, first of all, leave all emotion out of the decision. Ask for the $150, and if you don't get it, just hang onto what you've got while you look aggresively for another place that will pay more. If you find something else, just pack up and walk out. If not, that may be all the market will bear.

Another idea is to do more than one show, at different places, and pick up DJ jobs on the side.

If you want to try to convince the bar to pay you more, all I can suggest is to try to be as entertaining as possible, and build up their business. My favorite KJ plays all of my CDGs, tells a joke now and then, lets me tell a joke if I want to, remembers his singers and gives them a hug or a handshake when they walk in. When a birthday party is there, he sings Happy Birthday. If there is no rotation, he asks people what videos they would like to request. As a result, I have given him writeups in the local newspaper entertainment forums, and I might tip him a few bucks at a time throughout the night, when he's not looking. Of course we have slow nights, but there are many when the place is packed, and nearly everyone in the bar is singing. There are a dozen or two regulars who follow him around to both of his karaoke shows, and he knows them all by name. Some businesses and groups, including the local television news crew, have showed up for parties. Some of them have asked him to do DJ work for other events. Of course, some people are naturally charismatic, and some aren't, but you can always try to do your best show. Some KJs don't.

-denise

Wow, thank you all for the input. I'm planning on talking with him either tonight or tomorrow so I'll let you know what happened. As far as write offs are concerned I have kept reciepts for everything throughout the year. It probably won't affect me too much on taxes. It just burns my (@$%&#!) every time I do a show to know that he's making more money than he ever has and I've taken such a pay cut. But, I've put myself in that position. I think I'll still try to get the 150, or at least get 125. I'm planning on agressively marketing at wedding shows this winter and hopefully by next year I will be booked for weddings every weekend. At this rate and according to my rates, I will be able to make just as much money with one wedding as I would doing 4 shows at his place. If you don't mind I'm going to start another thread about a whole different topic. I could use advice on that one too. A lot is changing in my world right now. Thanks again!!

Just an update. I didn't get the amount I was looking for but I did get what I could live with. This was all after another negotiation where I had to overcome objective after objective. He really didn't want to bump me up but he had no ground to stand on with his reasons not to pay me more. I feel it's a small victory as I have learned during this process that he's very hard to negotiate with and actually get something out of him. I think it will also help me negotiate with others in the future. Thanks again for your help, I very easily could have set an ultimatum and found myself without the gig.