Karaoke Forums

First, Babs nice to see you active here again, we missed your shining "face". I'm completely amazed by this statement. For me, most of the places I play hold at least 75 people and rarely do the singers out-number the non-singers unless it's a bad night for the bar. I'd say in most clubs that size, my average is about 25-30 singers a night. If I didn't have non-singers in the bar they'd be really hurting. I have played or do play in a few clubs that are much smaller (like 30-40 person capacity). In those venues the singers always outnumber the non-singers (in some cases because I rarely let anyone in that setting get away without singing at least one).

So back to my point, this is exactly why I said I tailor my show for the venue. It's a selling point I use with my customers, my ability to customize to meet their venue's needs.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

I believe it's a fine line that you walk in some places. The conundrum is this:

1. If you have no singers, you have no crowd.
2. If you have no crowd, you have no tape.

Some places may have A) a crowd dynamic whereby just offering karaoke is enough to draw a crowd. Higher density, younger, more with-it. Other places may have a dynamic B) that calls for a slow-building crowd of regulars focused on the singer. My area is of the type B almost exclusively. You have to bring the crowd in -- it isn't there by default. The only way you do that is by building regulars, and that usually means regular singers. But I have been to areas which look more like type A) to me.

So with one type the crowd may be the priority, with others the singers may be the priority.

At least this is what my visits to 300+ different karaoke shows in 130+ cities have suggested to me.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

It is a bit of a bizarre situation I work in. I have had many nights where everyone sang except for maybe 2 or 3 people in the bar. It makes for very very long rotations. A majority of my crowd are regulars as far back as ten years. Ages from 21 to 81. We're like a big happy karaoke family. This is the reason I'm careful not to judge other hosts. Karaoke environments come in all kinds of varieties.

Thanks for the welcome back Tony.

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

Well said ! I currently host 3 shows --each one is so different than the other.

#1- small bar-no filler no dance - 100% karaoke - older crowd
#2 - small bar - dance music wanted - big karaoke crowd - younger crowd
#3 - small bar - karaoke crowd starts late ( when the alcohol kicks in) Young crowd likes filler and dance music. Few serious singers that keep the karaoke going until the ...the alcohols kicks in .. Then it's no stopping the group songs

Any paid entertainment in a bar is about putting patrons in the seats and selling high margin products to those patrons.

It's absolutely not about the singers. It's absolutely not about the non-singers.. it's about the entire crowd as a whole.

I play dance music here and there throughout the night. Not because I have some ego and decide to play the Cupid Shuffle because I love that song and think the people in the bar would love it too.. I play it BECAUSE PEOPLE REQUEST I PLAY IT BECAUSE THEY WANT TO DANCE.

I hate that song. If I was playing a show full of music *I* like, it would be mostly old blues and a scattering of classic rock. It certainly wouldn't be the Cha Cha slide.

At least a dozen times a week I have people walk up to my booth and say, "Could you PLEEEEEASE play some regular music for a bit? Not karaoke? Play something we can dance to!"

When I do have lots of singers on deck, I shuffle them around to help the night flow better, and be entertaining to the crowd.. both singers and non singers alike.

I also walk around in the crowd.. talk to new arrivals.. try and get people who have never sung to come up and give it a try.. tell jokes and interact with the people in the crowd.

This isn't ego.. this is a HOST doing their JOB entertaining the crowd.

If anyone has a problem with ego, it's the singers who insist the show is all about them.

Which probably explains why they act like such prima donnas when they get bumped a song or two or when a strict rotation isn't followed.

Perhaps if I had a crowd filled with non stop back to back singers i'd run things differently.. maybe i'd just be a glorified name caller.. but every venue I play is a mixed audience, probably 55% Karaoke singers, 35% Music listeners, and 10% people who just wandered in because the place looked like it was jumpin' and had no idea what they were walking into.

My show may not be for everyone, and clearly not your kind of show.

But on the same token, the kind of show you like isn't everyone else in the worlds cup of tea, either.

rebel !!!!

This just gave me an idea. I'm gonna post at the top of my large whiteboard, "Count the number of lines between your name and the name of the person currently singing, multiply by 4, and that's the approximate time (number of minutes) until your next turn"

Yeah right! They don't read the rules in the books, why should they read this?

Oh well, I'll post it anyway; who knows...

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EveningStar Entertainment & Events
JR & Michele LaPorte
Peoria, AZ

You're actually right, Cheese. It's not about karaoke at all. It's about having SOME kind of entertainment to fill the seats and sell the booze.
It could be a trivia contest or banana peel chucking contest. The majority of the crowd doesn't really care what it is.
At my longest running and busiest show, I have about 10 - 12 "regular" singers in the course of a night and roughly 10 or so who come on a regular basis and never sing, but come because I'm there and to watch the show. The rest are walk-ins and they end up being the majority of the crowd at the bar.
And those walk-ins don't come for karaoke. They come because everyone else is there and it's the busiest bar in town. They come because there's SOMETHING going on. They really don't care what it is, as long as they are not sitting alone in a bar.
However, having said that, without those few regular singers to get the show going, there would be no show, which means nothing going on, which in turn means people heading to the show next door. So when I cater to the singers and their wants and need (yes, even the "divas"), it prevents them from going to the other show next door and everyone else following them. It's in the best interest of my show, which in turn is in the best interest of the bar.
THAT'S how it REALLY works!

You know, quite honestly, we as KJ's are our own WORST enemy! I participate in a number of forums, both professionally, related to another profession, and socially, and in ALL but the karaoke forums, the conversations are mostly informative and helpful.

But NOT here! And for that matter NOT on any KJ forum. This speaks to the apparent unprofessionalism of our industry. It seems that EVERY topic is subject to the immature and unprofessional rantings of a select few that obviously have alot of time on their hands, and spend it parading around as "know it alls", when in actuality thay haven't go a clue!

Folks, either we start demonstrating some professionalism, or there won't be a "profession" to worry about!

My greatest hope is that not many prospective venue owners are following our childish antics, if they are, "we're our own worst enemy".

tbreen

tbreen

Well said.

I base my rotation on every aspect of entertaining the whole bar. I base it on the utilitarian philosophy - "The greatest good for the greatest # of people." Some people want to sing, some want to dance, and everyone has their own style of music. Early on in the night I usually play classic rock, newer rock, even some country and ramp it up to full on top 40 dance later. We have a dance floor and are able to do this without making it cheesy. I usually try to do a couple "line dances" at some point during the night as well. To me it's about keeping the whole bar entertained. Also I have some regulars who are great people and I consider them friends BUT they sing the absolute most depressing songs EVER! I never tell them they can't sing but you can bet I sandwich them between some positive stuff. I also make sure that everyone who has turned in a slip has been up at least once and even ask the audience near the end of the night if there has been anyone I missed. If so, I call them up immediately. The bottom line is that I think we all have our individual styles that work for us and the venues we work. In my experience no two venues have been the same so it would make sense that we all treat them differently.

1ST OF ALL...This is not a KJ forum ...hence the problem
It's a Karaoke Forum with basically...SINGERS and KJ's
Both with completely different goals and expectations (YES THERE ARE SOME SIMILIAR ONES) but for the most part opposites really. There is/was a KJ only forum which gets little to no use really.... So when a KJ wants to ask a business question... singers chime in with what THEY want. (Which of course is important ...sort of?) All depends on the question being asked. Naturally when a KJ talks about "revising" the rotation every singer wants to jump down their throat. It doesn't matter what the reason ...no one gets bumped is the consensus. Of course there are ways to approach any situation with CLASS and Professionalism but some people here have NO CLASS.

There are always some legitimate reason to manipulate the rotation slightly OCCASIONALLY, stick in a new singer, put up the bartender or the owner/manager.
The bacherlotte or friends at her party. Again occasionally.

Yes every KJ believes they are right ....and they are . After all it's their business and their show. They answer to the manger/owner not the singers. The KJ faces the consequneces of their own actions.....right or wrong. The singer are on the other side of the fence with the ME/US ATTITUDE

Spot on Jam, and for the record, I've never participated in any web forum that didn't have it's share of heated debates with name calling and childish behavior. I've seen it on Soccer referee forums that I frequent (Yes I'm also a Soccer referee), I've seen it on the Pro Sound Web forums, I've definitely seen it on the sports forums, and I've even seen it on religious forums (oh the irony).

I understand why singers are sensitive to the rotation to a point, but honestly, what is it with our society and the standing in line syndrome? Everyone is sooooo worried that someone might get something before them, and it makes no difference what part of life you're talking about. Take driving, how many times have you seen that person driving 5mph under the speed limit in the left lane, but the minute someone tries to pass them on the right, they gun the gas just to keep that person from getting in front of them. Why? They don't want to be skipped, even though they'll never see that person again because that person is driving faster than them. There are a million little examples like this that I could get into where they all come back to some form of people just not being able to tolerate being "skipped in line".

So you're sitting in a bar, you plan to be there all night anyway, what difference does it make if you've got to wait an extra 3.5 minutes in this round of the rotation because I moved someone else around in the order? I can't even understand how someone has any fun at Karaoke if they're stressing themselves out like that watching the rotation. I mean it's one thing when a person goes up and sings 3 times to someone else's 1, but having the rotation shuffled, I just don't get the big deal.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

Tony
On this site you have some that can make an argument at of anything and usually do. A simple question of shuffling the rotation slightly to create a better "playlist" for the entire venue leads to name calling and unbelieveable scenerios.

Lifes too short ...
Karaoke should be about having Fun ...

Karaoke should be about whatever we want it to be about. Not what other people tell us it should be about. To each their own.

Not everyone wants to hang out in bars. Some of us want to sing and if it didn't involve bars we would be just as happy.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

It seems you just don't get it do you ????

I'll go out on a limb and say 95% of the KJ's hosting K A R A O K E want to have a show that is FUN as 99% of them are in BAR TYPE VENUES. I can't tell you what your idea of FUN is but from what you post....

sitting in a bar counting the minutes until your next song while you sip your beverage ..ready to pounce on the KJ or voice your complaint about anything all the while threatening never to come back because you don't like the Microphones or the speakers or the bartender wasn't quick enough yadda yadda yadda.
Give it a rest !!!

Just because I mention FUN doesn't mean a bunch of drunks screaming into a microphone.

You remind me of a singer last week.... Had to be the 1st one to sign up - wanted to sing a Stevie Nicks Song. What I offered was a Fleetwood Mac Soundchoice version. She sang really well but....halfway thru she stops sing and throwing hand up in the air "this isn' the same version I'm used to" " I can't sing this " "this is wrong" and walks off handing the microphone to a stranger. Then I see her complaining to all her friends who could give a (@$%&#!). The she continues to follow up with me still complaining " I SING THIS SONG EVERYDAY IN MY CAR ". ENOUGH LADY ..READ THE WORDS AND SING THE SONG ..NO ITS NOT ..AMERICAN IDOL AND YOU NEED TO SING THE KARAOKE SONG AS SHOWN ON THE SCREEN.

You say not everyone wants to hang out in bars ..DUH DUH DUH ..then why GO ???

karaoke shoud be about whatever you want it to be .... Thats why you wander around looking for the show (in a bar) that dont exhist

I go to a show to SING.... and to watch others sing.

I expect the rotation to be FAIR. I expect there to be rules to the rotation and that if I don't understand what they are, that they can be explained to me easily enough.

What I don't want is.... 'I'll get you up after this guy (because you asked)' or 'I can't figure out who all these slips belong to but I'll get you up shortly'. When what I asked was, 'How long before I'm up again?' and what I wanted to know was, 'Do I have enough time to hit the bathroom?' or 'Do I have enough time to run down the street and grab a sandwich because the kitchen at the bar is closed for renovations?'

Not everyone is a prima donna or a diva. Some of us just like to sing, hang out and have a good time.

I have kept quiet so far on this thread, but I felt it time to jump in and put my thoughts to it. First of all, none of us are perfect, none of us are the same even. Our needs and goals are different. Each show has it's own individual quirks and needs. I run my shows one way, but that doesn't mean that it would work in another city or state, or even in the bar across the street. We all have to sit back and evaluate our own venues situation and decide for ourselves what is needed. Does that mean we are wrong? No, it means we are different and an individual. Nothing more, nothing less. Karaoke isn't rocket science, it's the lowest form of entertainment in my book. Not to take anything of what we do as hosts away from it, but karaoke isn't important. It is just a way of giving people a diversion to their own day to day problems. It shouldn't add to them.

For those of you who have lowered yourself to "name calling" and bickering. Shame on you. This is exactly why things are the way they are on this forum. Some people just have a holier than thou attitude that their poop don't stink. And it carries over to the real world outside of this forum and karaoke. Folks, when someone has a different point of view, or a different way of doing something, please don't attack them. Like my momma said (and probably yours too),,, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all". Try to lift people up, not tear them down for being different.

my 2 cents worth here,
Scott

"If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all".

Oh how I hate that phrase! If people didn't voice their negative opinions about certain things; nothing would EVER change for the better.

There once was a negative feeling about TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION, which led to the creation of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. When things are wrong; people need to speak up and complain about them to make things BETTER and not just keep the status quo forever. People who espouse this philosophy of not saying anything if you don't have something soft and cuddly to say are usually the people that are being complained about.

What they are basically saying is....IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE WAY I DO THINGS...SHUT THE F@CK UP!!!! I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU THINK SO SHOVE IT WHERE THE SUN DOESN'T SHINE.

At some point in history, some pain in the a$$ complained about having to go outside to take a crap. Thank God that everyone didn't shut that down with.... "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all". Just go out into the freezing cold and do your business and stop complaining for Christ's sake.

If you run your karaoke show badly people have a right to let you know what they like or dislike about your show. If you're too much of an ego maniac to think that your show couldn't possibly be improved upon, You just might be the problem and not the customer. This my way or the higway mentality of the karaoke host is why so many shows fail. Most singers just find a different venue to sing at without ever complaining to the KJ because they are well aware of the KJ's know it all personality and it just isn't worth wasting their time. They will just get rebuffed as diva water sippers.

KJ's that hate the idea of having a LINE of singers just hate having to be locked in to doing things the fair way because they want to be able to "toy" with the rotation because they think that they know what is best for everyone else. If you lose just one singer a week, it won't be long before you're looking for a new gig. I've been to so many new shows that have no following of regular singers that never seem to take off very well. They draw very small crowds and lose the gigs after a month or so. I went to one of these the other night with my son.

Got to the bar at 10:00. Barmaid said the KJ usually gets there around 10:30. The place had about 35 people there when we arrived. As soon as the KJ showed up, about half of the crowd left before he even set up his laptop. KJ finally called up my song to sing at 10:55 and myself right after that. Then he went back to playing DJ music that absolutely NO ONE was dancing to. My son and I were apparently the only people there that were willing to sing but the KJ decided that he would play music for about 20 more minutes while we waited to see how long it would take for him to allow us to sing again. We finally decide to go to another bar to sing.

Is it any wonder why we were the only singers in that bar???? What karaoke singer would ever go back to a place like that??? The KJ has already alienated just about every singer in the area. It's obvious that he fancies himself a DJ more than a KJ so he just keeps trtying to show off his mixing skills. When we left there were only 6 people left in the place other than staff members.

Simple response to you Bruce. -, it's not a dictatorship that demands control over the masses. It's supposed to be fun. What is fun to one person, is a load of crap to others. But that doesn't make either of them right or wrong, just different. If you find a venue that you don't like the way the host does things, then by all means go somewhere else. That is your choice, but don't attach him/her for doing something different. Just smile and leave.

I agree to a point to you saying that negative remarks are how some changes come about. This is true even in our industry. But to verbally attach someone, in my opinion lowers yourself to a level of animals. Nothing more than an action/reaction. We as humans have the ability to rise above those types of behaviors. If someone hits you, do you just turn around and hit them back? Now while I am not saying not to defend yourself, but to turn an aggressive act into another aggressive act is less than what I would want to see out of any of us.

We as hosts or singers do not see the entire picture of how or why another host is doing something that we don't agree with. It's not our place to name bash or ridicule them. They make their own bad decisions and will have to deal with the results. We from our side, have our own decisions to make according to our wants and wishes. It's not correct to push our beliefs and wishes onto other people.