Karaoke Forums

I don't even know where to start. I don't want to sound like sour grapes, but my daughter (age 11) was in the kids karaoke contest yesterday at the Costa Mesa fair/festival. Savannah is an amazing singer. She was clearly the most talented there. Her voice would be better suited on a 30+ year old woman. However, she is still an 11 year old child. She didn't even place in the top 5. Some of the girls that won came up to her and said they were embarrassed to be up there when Savannah was not! We were okay with this until about 50 some patrons came up to us and said "you were robbed" etc. etc. I explained to Savannah that different people have their own opinions etc. Everything was great until a JUDGE came up to me and said "she didn't make it due to her appearance" Savannah had been sick and didn't want to go, so she threw on a sweatshirt and some jeans just because she had committed herself. Needless to say after hearing this from a judge, I was stunned. She didn't make it due to her APPEARANCE? I have looked and re-looked at the rules and regs and it says nothing AT ALL ABOUT APPEARANCE!!! Unfortunately, so many people were coming up to us demanding that we go and say something that we eventually had to leave as Savannah was in tears. I feel like we were discriminated against...how, I'm not sure, but it was definitely NOT fair. Any advice?
www.youtube.com/thesavannahrobinson

I am listening to your daughters performance on You-tube.. I have to say, talented indeed!! Much better than many of the karaoke contest winners that I have witnessed. But, yes, there is a "but". As you are well aware of, singing is highly subjective. It's all in perception and personal tastes. I do not know what the criteria was for the singing contest, but whether you like it or not or agree with it or not, appearance is sometimes just as important as talent. Take the professional artists such as, for instance, Carrie Underwood and Kelly Clarkson. Both are talented in their own styles, but BOTH have been altered in appearance from where they started each of their seasons. Even someone like Susan Boyle who didn't have any appeal as far as looks go, she HAD to make some changes in order to just place second. I'm not saying anything negative about your daughter, she is extremely talented, but yes, image is important as well whether it was in the rules or not, it's still in peoples (judges) minds when voting.

I really appreciate your input. Afterall, I am 'justadad'. I agree with you 100%, but should we be made of the criteria on which we are being judged? We would have made sure that she wore something more than jeans and a sweatshirt had we known. My gripe is that this is a 'singing' contest. I have sent an e-mail to the powers that be, and am awaiting a response.
I guess the worst part is that my 11 year old daughter was caught in the middle of the beurocracy of it all..

My advice would be to make note of what the winners were wearing, if that's what they are going to judge, and if it is appropriate for an 11-year-old. Somehow I just can't imagine having dressed my daughters up in sequined miniskirts to perform karaoke. Maybe something kind of flashy, but not revealing.

Just forget about this contest and look forward to the next one.

-denise

I agree. It is just disappointing. It was for karaokefest....

I've been sitting here watching her other videos on youtube as well. She has come a LONG way in just one year. She has a "gift" for sure! You should be very proud and humbled at the same time. She sings WAY above her age for sure. With the proper guidance, coaching and training, she WILL go very far. Just make sure it's something "she" wants to do for herself, not for anybody else. Singing is a passion and it becomes a part of our souls. If this is the case, the sky is the limit for her, she is simply one of the best I have seen as far as "talent" goes, right up there with Bianca Ryan at that age level. I agree with Denise, just forget about this one, and move on to something better. Good luck with EVERYTHING!! You have a daughter with a "gift", but still just your daughter first.

This is truly what she wants to do.

I know and agree that she is extremely gifted. She recently sang The National Anthem at The Staples Center and caught the attention of probably as big as it gets when it comes to music, so I know her path has been paved. It is still the principal of the matter, AND she is still only 11, and doesn't understand what she did wrong, when in fact, she did everything right. She is not stupid by any stretch and knows what is right and wrong. I am more doing this to show her that I support her 1 million percent. As I had stated above, this was all a done deal until one of the judges came up and talked to us.

Thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate your words of kindness and support. Btw, I'm Kevin, aka...Just a dad.

Thanks bud.

I just listen to her singing Listen; with that kind of vocal talent she can go far......with proper parental guidance, at least at the beginning of her singing career.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

Mate, she could go a long way.
Loosing a few contests may even help balance her thinking.
Don't get bitter.
Justify it in some way.

For eleven. Wow.

Performance, in my opinion, is a package deal.

The way you sound, the way you look, and your stage presence all figure into the equation.

It may not say anything about appearance in the rules and regulations.. but if probably doesn't say anything about clothes being required.. or that the contestants actually be able to sing well.. but I guarantee all three are required to place anywhere near the top 10 of any singing contest.

Many.. and I mean many karaoke competitions i've seen and judged over the years found just absolutely top notch singers finish 5th (or worse) because while they sung perfectly, they just stood on the stage like a stick in the mud.. had no stage presence.. or simply weren't entertaining.

Sometimes song selection alone is enough to sink a singers chances.. even when they have the pipes and the look, and carry themselves like a professional entertainer on the stage.

It would be interesting to see videos of the singers that DID win 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.

With all the videos you have up, i'm surprised you didn't tape her performance at the competition. Seems like it might have been something nice to have around for posterity in the event she had won.

Watching the one of you and her singing "I Told You So"... Kevin, both of you did an amazing job! That was from a year ago? Holy cow!!! RUN, do NOT WALK, find someone who you can trust to take her on the right path to stardom. Simply outstanding!!!

I'd have loved to have had the opportunity to post it. However, when she sang to qualify, someone stole our $2k video camera, at the fricken event!!! I was doubly pissed as there were videos of her performance at an event for Sony that were not downloaded, as well as other performances by her sisters that were not downloaded either.

You're right. You should have seen what 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th did. We had our validation. The entire crowd was up in arms. We were forced to leave. I have stated my "whys". However, I do agree with 'Jerry12x' this experience will only help in molding who she is.

I appreciate your taking the time to comment.

Thanks.

Thank you.

Feel proud.
She has potential.
Down to earth now. OK.

You asked for advice. Get her some Josh Groban CDs.

It's easy to get someone to say something is wonderful. Everybody feels better and it costs the speaker nothing. It is more difficult to find someone to identify a potential problem so that it can be corrected. That being said.....

I listened to her performances. She sings like an eleven year old who has had a lot of practice and nothing more. She's not great, she's just okay. She grinds her 'R's and hisses her 'S'es. The words she is singing are hard to understand. There is no "Heart" to her perfromance but that just goes with being 11. There is no way she can relate to the lyrics of most of these songs.

A simple and effective tool to imporve anyone's vocal performance is a plain old junky tape recorder. No effects, no high budget mic, no backing track. Let her sing and play it back ALONE. She will be able to hear the problems and correct them on her own most likely. If the recorder gathers dust after a few weeks you might consider that she really doesn't like to sing but is only doing this to please you.

Well, you asked....

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Okay, who took my pants?

I will agree with much of what weed just wrote.

I have worked with some very talented young singers -- one of whom went so far as to fly to Nashville and create a 3-song demo. She surprised the studio musicians, who for the most part are a pretty jaded bunch, with her ability to sing. She had "it" but decided soccer was more her thing. Because of her age, she won every contest she sang in - she DID have a voice of a much 'older soul' and as much as we thought she could (and definitely WOULD) have had a career, because it wasn't the most important thing to her, she quit.

Recently I participated in judging a fairly large contest. One of the singers had a very marketable voice - much like Lilly Allen or Sarah Bareilles. She outsang every one there but since two-thirds of the vote had to do with stage presence, she didn't win. The showmanship aspect has much to do with maturity and confidence, and though this girl was 23, she just didn't "WOW" the judges and the crowd with her show. Her dress was very forgetable (dark, no bling, nothing remarkable). Her singing was perfect but her song choice wasn't of the ilk that people go crazy for - like Journey or Heart or one of those artists. In fact, one of the participants was a dead ringer for Celine Dion but again, her show was just flat.

It comes down to this: In a large contest, what the judges are contemplating is, "Would I pay money to see this person sing?" "Is this person's performance going to make people stop in their tracks and listen?"

Until your daughter matures a little, physically and vocally, she should spend time on her vocals - there are plenty of resources for doing that. She should sing songs well suited to her age. She should learn how to pronounce all the letters of the alphabet while singing, focus on phrasing and breathing techniques, etc., and continue to enter contests.

Rejection is part of the music business. If music is the path she chooses in life, the sooner she learns to take rejection in stride, the better. Work with her on accepting that she will not always be the one who gets chosen. If she does the best she can, she can never feel badly about not being the first choice in a subjective judging contest. There are many, many talented young singers around. FYI, I knew who would win the contest I was judging at but that didn't stop me from looking very closely at those who didn't. All my choices did place in the finals but not in the order I would have chosen. And different judges likely would have chosen a different winner.

I think she has a lot of promise if she works at it. As far as contests go, i've ran minor contest up to major contests and stage presence & appearance has always been a part of the judging for most contests - epecially for major competitions where everything is considered (we did a statewide contest a few years back where the winner opened for Diamond Rio + $2000 cash - our contestant took it locally and won finals). Although we do try to add that in the criteria, one competing in any contest should know that if someone has a great overall package (moving, good appearance and singing) over one that may sing great but doesn't move or have the appearance, that chances are the performer is going to have the edge. Now not having watched any of the contest in question I cannot judge, just saying how some contests work.

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Don't forget that judges all have their own influences and pre-conceptions. I won't judge contests because I know full well I can not be impartial.

There is no doubt you daughter has a great voice for an 11 year old. But I know I would mark her down, for several reasons the main one being that she sounds like she has had training. It's a kids karaoke contest, I would be more impressed with a natural but raw talent... in my opinion your daughter has too much experience and shouldn't be in it* (and after looking at the youtube site my suspicions about previous experience would have been correct).

I also dislike the sudden trend for vocal trills (and whistle notes), and much prefer the subtle qualities that Karen Carpenter was famous for.

And finally, I like seeing an 11 year old singing songs suitable for an 11 year old, dressed like an 11 year old, dancing and having fun like an eleven year old would.

This is the reason I don't judge.

All judges have their own expections and what they are looking for. Some more impartial than me, but I have seen several great singers lose due to the judges on the night (one singer was marked down because one of the judges didn't know the song he had chosen .... Mac the knife ).

Three - five judges didn't rate her the best, but then Eddie Bond told Elvis to stick to truck driving. This is the music industry rejection is part of the game, take it in your stride and move on.

* On a side note, I'm from the Uk and I suspect our karaoke contests on the whole aren't at serious as the US. We tend to frown upon professional singers entering.

Your rant is EXACTLY why I don't host karaoke contests. Many will enter, only one can win, and there are lots of people who take this stuff very seriously. There is only one winner. If you are not that winner, then you are left out in the cold.

The regulars lose, because there are always "ringers" that come out of the woodworks for contests, the host loses, because feelings ALWAYS get hurt, and hosts always LOSE long time patrons, and the bar loses because they don't recognize that the ONE good night for the till doesn't come close to covering the damage the contest wages on regular customers.

It just isn't worth it. The "spirit" of karaoke is not competition, it is amateurism in the true sense of the word. Keep karaoke amateur! Leave the contests to Oprah!

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C Mc
KJ, FL