Karaoke Forums

They're plenty 'up front' about it.. but just not with you.

You're laboring under the false assumption that there is some unwritten code of ethics among karaoke hosts.. or that gigs are somehow yours for life because you had it first.. or that the show was ever actually 'yours' in the first place.

You expect a host with no shows to sit around and wait for clubs to call them? You expect them to only solicit clubs without a regular DJ/KJ?

Nobody has to clear anything with you, unless you're in charge of booking entertainment at the club.

As a KJ who's looking for new jobs, i'll go check out other shows.. normally because people come to me and tell me I should go talk to such and such at another bar to get in there because their current host sucks.

I'll walk in check things out.. maybe even talk to the current KJ host a bit.. but I rarely if ever mention i'm a KJ, or that the reason i'm there is to potentially take over the night.

If I feel the club would be a good fit for my kind of show.. if I feel I can really bring something to the venue, then i'll talk to the bar manager/owner and tell them what I can offer them.

That's how capitalism works.

I actually welcome other hosts to my show, I even get offended when they DON"T tell me who they are and I find out later. I have always given them due respect and acknowledgment at my shows. I think it's just common courtesy. And I don't worry they are trying to steal my show either. Because, I worry about what "I" am doing, not what someone else is doing. About 5 months ago, I had a gal helping me run some extra shows. Well, long story short, she stabbed me in the back, almost ruined the show she was supposed to be hosting. I took back the show, for one week only, and found out the owner liked her for whatever reason. He fired me, brought her back, and now the bar is almost ready to close. They are down to friday nights with only less than 15 people in the place. The club actually will hold over 400, but hasn't topped a hundred in over a year. Point is, they get what is coming to them. I lost this show because I regretfully didn't tell the owner ahead of time what I was planning on doing. I just sort of figured they would have been happy to have me back. I was wrong, the owner wasn't happy.

Lesson here is, if we take care of our own situation, and do our jobs properly and with a good attitude, we shouldn't have much to worry about, even from those "back-door" type of cut throats. I learned my lesson, and will never let something like that happen again.

Cheese, I labor under no false assumptions, rest assured. I've been in the biz since the '90s and am pretty choosy about where I work and can do that because of my reputation. I really don't care who comes in seeking my gigs. I say try your best. And if I'm not doing my job, then I welcome their challenge. Just recently, in fact, and for a reason I'm not completely clear on, a summer gig I did last year was offered to another KJ. Where we filled the place every week to overflowing, this dude (who according to the owner needed to shower, apply deodorant, and change his shirt occasionally) couldn't get more than 8 people in the place. Since then I've been reinstated at their new place which opens in October...and will also assist in booking bands and setting up special events. Some people don't believe it when you tell them what you can and will do.

I just get sick and tired of slime balls who come in offering something other than full chairs and happy people, prostituting themselves to get a job...they may succeed somewhere else, and throw another venue on the "karaoke doesn't work here" pile. Our area is full of those places. Seldom do I find it's the hosts who have great equipment, legal libraries, the ability to mix sound, a great sense of showmanship and entertaining ability, and a steady following of singers, who contribute to the "karaoke doesn't work here pile" and who sneak in the back door with a "deal you won't believe."

He has a Thursday night left, yes. (At another venue).

I think there are two reasons that people have a problem with this. One, usually (i.e. NOT ALWAYS) the KJ who comes in and does that is attempting to undercut the current show. Price undercutting hurts all of us. People complain on this board all the time about how we don't get paid what we're worth and having bozos running around taking shows for $50 or $100 and then coming in and sucking (not saying they all do so don't get your panties in a bunch) not only hurts our ability to get paid a decent wage, it also hurts the reputation of all KJ's. I've seen it first hand where a bar that I used to go to for Karaoke nights (to sing) fell prey to an under cutter. They couldn't resist the temptation of a show for half of what they were paying. The new guy came in and in 4 quick weeks had ticked off most of the bar's regular patrons and had completely driven out the Karaoke crowd. The owner, who I've talked with plenty, cancelled Karaoke all together and won't bring in anyone new because of this experience. He's now shifted to doing poker nights, acoustic duos and other promos.

The second issue I think is that when people go in to steal a show, many of them bad mouth the present KJ. This is just unprofessional in ANY profession. So I think people get real sensitive to that.

For me personally, I have an issue with going into a bar where someone else is established and trying to get my foot in the door there. I prefer friendly and co-operative competition because I'd much rather work with the guys around me so we can all get better pay and conditions that get into battles with eachother fighting over gigs. The bar owners love to see us fight for gigs because it lets them drive down the prices. So I won't do it. I give leads to other KJ's in the area and they reciprocate to me as well. I help other KJ's when they have questions for me and they do the same for me. Honestly, working in that manner is far better than cut-throat competition where everyone is willing to stab anyone else in the back.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

I find it funny that we get all UPSET when another KJ comes into our venue to solicit karaoke ..but then turn around and do the same thing whenever we get a chance



Business ---only the strong (or extremely cheap) will survive !!!

I agree on undercutting, and mentioned it earlier in this thread.

Getting work by doing it half price.. especially when half price is only $50 or $100 is crazy. Most gigs I take over, i'm charging more than the outgoing host.

But i'm still kind of fuzzy on what constitutes a 'slimeball' and someone going in the 'back door' in Karen's eyes.

I can proudly say I've never done it. If a landlord or venue is unhappy with the show they have booked I rather they look around and find me. It's taken me longer to build my business, but I can sleep at night and now my business is going well.

As for the ones who have tried to come to my venues and solicit karaoke, I won't recommend them. Which sucks for them, because a quick phone call to me and a chat about their services, would have meant I passed on my extra work.

There were 4 Karaoke Hosts at our show last Sat and I was just counting that we have had about 13 come through, many regularly. They range from those whom we trust enough that we cover each other's shows without fear to the dirty tricks singer/show stealers. Only 3 are in the bottom category. What I realized is that the ones we can trust all have cultivated long term relationships with their venues and have shows that run 6 years, etc. The psychos go from gig to gig. And, as Karen and LetItRip pointed out, people either don't want karaoke any more after them or don't think that it is worth paying much for after them.

My philosophy has been to keep cordial and cooperative relations with any host in the area that I know to be legal and honorable. As Marble says, it can result in sharing leads or in at least being able to take a day off if needed and know you have someone to cover. I keep saying that if I know for sure someone has offered to sell me a copy of their drive or whatever that I would have no problem going in after their show but I still can't make myself do it. And it has taken me about two years to realize it but as time has told, if a venue owner is going to make bad business decisions in one area, they will probably make them in others and it is hard to be a success at those places, anyway.

I absolutely agree with you. I have a good relation/friendship with most KJ's in my area. We do respect each other and keep the ethics and respect towards another. It's just that one that gives everyone a headache.

Well, I hope he learned his lesson. Very doubtful though...

If I was going to start doing karaoke in bars again, the FIRST thing I'd do is approach every single bar already doing karaoke. I'd tell them my price, provide information about who I am, and what I do - and let it go.

THEY make the decision of they want a change.

There is nothing wrong with that. I'm not bad mouthing another KJ, I'm not saying I'm cheaper, I'm just saying, 'Here's my rates and what I do'. It's just 'business'.


The problem is when someone comes in and says, 'I'll do what they do for $50 less.'
And then they don't.

THAT'S what hurts all KJ's. Dragging the good down to the 'bad's' level. Claiming we're 'all the same'.


As for going to other KJ's shows, it's always a learning experience. Sometimes I see them do things that are impressive, and sometimes I see things that border on the galatically stupid.

I'm still trying to get down to New Orleans to the Cat's Meow and check out their show...
(http://catskaraoke.com/)


In the end, it all comes down to this: Are you intentionally trying to steal their show? or just 'doing business'? The approach makes all the difference in the world.

Thanks for bringing this up. I agree, it is appropriate to make sure you get your marketing packet to any place you'd like to do karaoke in ... even if they do have it currently; however, I think included in that packet should be what you charge currently...not find out what they're paying their current host and offer to do it for less. THIS is the slimeball I'm speaking of. Get a gig at whatever cost...thus bringing down the entire range of pay in the area. When it's time for me to send out more info (when I either want to add another show or replace any of the three that I have) I will update my packet and send it out or deliver it by hand, via an appointment with the owner or manager.

While I think there is nothing wrong with the business approach and while I understand your point that as long as you're not trying to bash someone else and/or undercut it is just business, it's just not me.

Bottom line is, if I would get a show doing it the business way, it still would not look good to others. And I just don't want to have that kind of reputation. Besides, there are so many bars/restaurant/other types of venues out there, that don't have Karaoke and might be interested, that it's really not necessary IMHO to ruin your reputation over that one gig.

It's just how I run my business. Reputation IS my top priority. That's why I still feel bad even though I have no reason that I took on that show.

Not me either.

Exactly, if a venue is not happy with their current KJ and wants to switch, I'd rather have it be because they heard about me and wanted me rather than because I went to them and said hey I can do this for you too. Maybe that's why I am able to demand higher pay, because I'm not seeking them out, they're coming to me.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

Sevarin, you bring up a very good point. We spent two years being frustrated by the bar situation and now instead of beating our heads against the wall are trying to expand the types of places where karaoke can be rather than try to force our way in to where it is already overcrowded. We have our first big "Kid Event" this month. I can now make a dog out of a balloon. Hats to follow.

Plus we have finally started getting some people at our show who tell us they didn't know karaoke could be "good" and have recommended some places to us and said to use their name, etc. One is in a band and one is a bartender at another place. If we can just hold on a bit longer we may finally break through. I'm glad we didn't have to resort to running some people out.

But I still don't think you did anything wrong in this particular case as the fellow asked you to do it and it sounds like a point needed to be made. But I understand how you feel.

I should add one other thing. If you do this, it should be every place you want to do karaoke - not just one person's shows.

In other words, putting the word out that you are available with current pricing (blindly) to the venues out there I don't see anything wrong with it.

Targeting a venue, or KJ's shows IS as much a problem as saying you'll do it for less.

And let's be honest - dropping off a card saying, 'If you're ever interested in making a change or you're not happy give me a call and we can talk.' is a far cry from doing something underhanded or unethical.