Karaoke Forums

Thanks Yoda Sorry man couldn't resist, your point is well taken.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

This debate makes me think back to Psychology 101...

There are things that have to be at a certain minimum level for people to be happy, but they won't produce happiness in and of themselves -- things of this nature are referred to as "dissatisfiers".

Then there are other things that the more of it you have, the happier people become and these things are the "satisfiers".

I'm of the mind that sound quality is a "dissatisfier" and human interraction is a "satisfier".

If the sound isn't at a certain minimum level, you WILL lose business, but as the sound moves closer and closer to the audiophile level fewer and fewer people can discern the difference.

On the other hand, how many of us can ever get enough love?

Don't let bar owners hear this.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

It won't work for every market; I have never been to one of these places. I hate it. There will always be a place for good JK'ing skill.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

This makes me want to mention that there are many factors outside of our control that can also make or break a show. Drink prices, security guards, bartenders, etc.

I have a friend who had the most popular show in town for a long time because it was the only one with bottled domestic beer for $1. His sound sucked, his rotation was whatever disorganized paper he picked up or whoever he remembered hadn't sang for a while, and he barely spoke to most of the customers (who were mostly complaining about the rotation being bizarre.) But it was always packed!

I quit my main gig because there was no other entertainment than me (they basically got rid of bands), the drink specials were just brain-dead, the bartenders were stealing from both customers and the till, and the venue would blow thousands of dollars on really stupid (@$%&#!) that never panned out, but they fired all the security guys and wouldn't spend a dime to repair their broken house PA. I *still* had the most popular show in town, even with all these disadvantages; but I refused to work against all those disadvantages when I could easily just change venues and not have to work as hard to deliver good nights.

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

I see that you've never been stalked.....

But your point is still definitely a good one!

this just proves that i suck at getting my point across on bbs.

i agree with you. there is a lot more to this job than having the best system or widest selection. people skills play a major part in this game. i applaud you for having one of the traits that a great many wannabe kj's don't, the ability to know when you have something that can be learned and improved. we have all seen the "kj's" that even if they took the blinders off to see that they could improve somewhere, couldn't give a s@#t. you see it and want to improve. i also have the same area in which to improve. this could make a good thread,......"what do you do to make your singers feel welcome"

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

No matter what the equiptment.......I think people sound better, when the majority of people are actually listening to them, and keeping their conversations at a low volume........as opposed to everyone hootin' and a hollering over a ballgame, or loud screaming and laughter at tables where people seem to have their own party going on.......of course maybe I'm dillusional.....

I always have a "loud" show. Crowd noise is not really a factor for me, but neither is "dead air," which I think is the most aggravating part about karaoke. I crossfade from loud music to loud karaoke singing and right back again all night.

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

The only issue with being "loud" over crowd noise at a Karaoke club is that it's a never ending battle. You raise the volume, they raise theirs. Back and forth it goes until they say "gawd it's too loud and they move away or out of the club completely". Since Karaoke is far more interactive than say a stage concert, I find it can ultimately be counter productive. In situations where they seem to have "their own party going on", find a way to get them involved. Go sit at their table, talk to them, listen to what they're saying and respond to it over the mic. Get them to come up as a group. Once they're involved, they're in your back pocket the rest of the night.

As far as dead air, I couldn't agree more. As a former radio DJ I've been conditioned to treat dead air like the plague. Not everyone subscribes to this theory. For me dead air as either a KJ or a DJ is simply unacceptable but others disagree. Personally I think having an appropriate up-beat tune come on following a song is a great way to keep folks going until the next singer comes up and starts.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

Scott,

My show has won "Best Karaoke" in one of our local rags for the 13th year in a row, and to be honest, the way our show is run is as impersonal as it gets. I try to be indifferent so things are as unbiased as possible.

I walk in, start a few programs on the kj machine, and sit out at the door all night checking ID's. Folks have to pay $1 every time they sing. I get that complaint ALOT. "YOU HAVE TO PAY A $1 TO SING HERE?" My other complain.. Not enough songs. We just ordered a Diamond Gem so I think we'll be good on that.

Folks enter their songs in on kiosks. Special users are granted free access via their phones. I don't enter songs for anybody. The playlist projected on the wall refreshes, and they see their name. Nobody yelling, "HEY BOB YOU'RE NEXT" because everyone see's the playlist.

Audio is leveled out really well using compressors.

And I just sit outside... Trying to hide sometimes. Getting paid for karaoke and doorman duties. I usually pull out my android phone and check the playlist once in while.

Despite all this indifference, I still win best karaoke in our local rags. I didn't even try this year. Usually I spam, or I put it on our website "HEY THE LOCAL RAG IS HAVING THE READERS CHOICE AGAIN, NOMINATE US FOR BEST KARAOKE" Yet this year I didn't.

I specialize in running a cold, efficient, karaoke meat grinder.
I try to be indifferent to show no favoritism.
Like you my equipment is top notch.

I wouldn't even worry about it. Just keep pluggin away.

It's really to do more about what we expect out of ourselves as humans, and I for one demand only my "excellence" when dealing with karaoke.

If I may add my two cents...I do believe that most people can tell a difference in sound quality. And, that most people want to sound good. Having that good, expensive equipment is certainly a "plus" in my opinion.

With that said, I do believe, like others have said, that the sound quality is only one part of the equation. It's the host(s) that draw in and keep a happy crowd. It's about your personality and how you treat and motivate the crowd, and just how much fun you make it. The quality of the host + the quality of the equipment is a winning combination.

I've seen people walk out of shows where the host was terrible but the sound was great and visa versa. So, I think (personally) that you should have good equipment and be the best host you can be. And that...is what makes for a sucessful show.

I should preface with this by saying I'm not trying to pick any fights, I'm just curious, but I know how things can sound over the internet sometimes when you can't see the other person's face or hear their tone of voice...

What's your own opinion of your show Toqer? I know you said before you were starting to feel burnt out. Do you ever go out and sing for fun or are you so burnt out on karaoke that going out to sing isn't fun any more? If you did go out to sing, would you be looking for an experience like the one you offer? I really admire the technical skill and obvious high degree of intelligence it took to have put all that together by the way...

As a KJ who plays next door to another bar that has a Karaoke, the sound quality matters to the singers and the audiance. I am always getting compliments about the sound quality and the decent singers tend to return to the bar.

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Regards
Brian

No offense, Toqer...but yours is the show I would never go to. Where is the human element in your show?

As entertainers, it's up to us to make our guests feel welcome. It's up to us to see that our guests are treated fairly and made to feel comfortable. It's up to us to see that all of our guests have a great time. No automation can do that.

One of the reasons people will come to a show is because they love the host. Their wit, charm, personality, sense of humor, etc. are all reasons people keep coming back. And rightly so. We as KJ's/Hosts work hard to provide that experience for our patrons.

First of all, I would never pay to sing. Secondly, I would not go to a place where everything is so mechanical. IMO the host plays a crucial role in how the show goes. It seems that you don't care about this aspect and have automated things so that you can distance yourself so you won't have to deal with people. But after all, isn't that the business we're in? You can't really call yourself a KJ.

Anyway, that's just my opinion.

The key to a "success" in a show is to build a core group of regulars that want to sing, but especially in front of a crowd. For many it is only in front of a SPECIFIC crowd.

That crowd may be only thier friends, or people that clearly like music. People come to perform, and if the crowd is not paying attention to anyone, then they do not return.

Now to get that crowd of regular (good singers), and an audience you need GOOD ENOUGH equipment/sound, but for atmosphere there is NO LIMIT that improvement can't help (well up to stadium size)...


Now to attact those crucial GOOD singers and getting them to return, it is going to be a combination of them fitting into the EXISTING crowd, sound quality, relation with the KJ.

It is not always as simple as being nice to everyone and getting to know them. It is much more important to identify and befriend the RINGLEADERS of each circle of friends. Generally it is my experience that with a group of people one or two people usually decides where (and when) to go for entertainment, and they call/attract several of their friends to the event. Once you have that 1or 2 ringleaders of a circle of friends hooked, then you can have several more regulars at your show. Many of the apparent "loners" are often there because they expect to see some of these social ringleaders.

Currently I have 25-40 singers at most of my regular weekly shows. Usually only about 5 are not regulars. I currently have about 5 "ringleaders". If they stopped showing up, I think my crowd would fall to the 5-10 range until I got new social ringleaders.

No doubt tofer's gig caters to a specific crowds taste.. predominant Japanese-American karaoke singers.. singers so hard core they're willing to pony up a buck a song.. and he's open 6 nights a week.

I'd be willing to wager the impersonal 'karaoke factory' setup simply wouldn't work many other places.

I take the bet. How much?

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

I would argue the asian model for karaoke (rented rooms, no host) is even more "personal" because you are not going to sing in front of strangers. Everyone is usually at least connected indirectly to each other by friends.


The western model can be the other extreme where sometimes many or most of the other singers can be strangers.

Many successful shows strive for a mix where MOST of the crowd is regulars and friends with each others and that often works well for a stable crowd. Of course this is not going to work in vacation areas or places with a more transient clientele.

Building a crowd of regulars can take years, but many bars don't go with that model. Many are quite successful with other approaches, it really depends. A bar that has a lot of transient people might drive away the crowd that wants a comfort zone of singing to people that they know and are familiar with.