Karaoke Forums

Recently, I have decided to fill in my nights off, (since I got laid off from my day job). Right now I host 3 shows per week, Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturdays. Where I live, bars/clubs are far away from me. The 2 closest ones to me, I used to host there, but no longer do. One of them was my choice to end, the other one was too frustrating to continue dealing with the owner. So, now I must travel up to a hundred miles away to find gigs. When I approach them about karaoke, they seem to be excited, but they have in their heads that it should only cost 50-75 bucks for a karaoke host. They can't find decent toilet cleaners for that price! So consequently, I don't get the gigs, and they don't do karaoke.

What would be your approach to the owners on the pricing? I know all about the legality issues they face, so it's more about the pricing than anything..

Well, here in Richmond, I know last year about this time There were close to 100 venues advertising Karaoke, and you could find 20+ shows on just about any weeknight.

Now there's 61 advertised shows total, and only 39 venues advertising.

I don't know if actual venues have dropped, or they simply no longer advertise that they have karaoke.

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Dave's not here.

I know everyone will pile on but we faced it here. If they have become used to a certain pay rate and show standard, you have to get a toe in somehow to prove you are worth more. The one we turned down "on principle" of not wanting to work for $75 we lost to a pirate. So we switched to an intro rate for a set number of weeks or have also tried a percentage with a guaranteed minimum but more if the till reaches over a certain amount. So far the latter arrangement has proved to be with an honest owner who has done right by us. I think if the owner is the type to take advantage, they will try things no matter what the deal. If they seem like a good owner who will do their part in promoting, etc. then we will give it a try to work with them to build things up together.

Here, where I am, just simply because of the distance I must travel, the minimum will be 150, no matter what. So, if they offer 75 or so, it's a no go for me

I have a couple different battles I have to fight: bars that don't want to pay due to pirates and bars that are afraid of having karaoke due to the lawsuits.


Piracy lawsuits has run rampant here in NC, to the point where a lot of bars are scared to have karaoke. When I'm contacting a bar owner, I have a letter of intent I make them sign. This letter breaks down the legality of hiring a pirate (what they are afraid of) and the letter has a paragraph about them seeing enough of my library that to their untrained eye, I am legal (even to the trained eye, I am legal, but it makes them feel better) . I bring in all of my CDs and show him that I do indeed every song that I am playing (typically explaining the Eagles situation then showing them 8125 is sufficient) and give them peace of mind for hiring me. By having them sign this paper that they can keep, they are more open about getting into karaoke.


To fight bars not wanting to pay, make yourself different. I am fortunate enough to work in a college town where there are 5 universities within walking distance of downtown and a couple of those blue schools about 30 miles down the road. I invested in an auto tuner and advertise it as T-Pain karaoke. It really seems to drive up the numbers by simply adding this $300 piece of equipment (granted, this is almost as much as pirates pay for their entire collection, but it's worth it!). I cannot say enough about it. Obviously I don't use it for every song, but it adds enough - surprisingly country songs sound awesome in auto tune. It gives even the most normal accents enough of a fake country twang that people keep coming back just to see what XXXX sounds like.

I feel for you buddy. My advice is to offer them a free night. Hopefully, once you're "in" and they like what they see and hear, hopefully they will have proven to themselves that you get what you pay for. If they still quabble about the money, then bring up the piracy rap and if that doesn't work, I don't know what else to tell you.

I agree with Alan B. When I approach bars/clubs for a gig they are always reluctant to hire me. They tell me all kinds of reasons i.e., they have karaoke before but it didn’t work out, or afraid of lawsuits we don’t know if we’re hiring an illegal KJ, etc. (their concern is warranted; remember they don’t know me from Adam).

They normally change their tune when I say it won’t cost them a dime. I will give them one freebie night & prove that I’m legit. It has to be on a weekend, Friday or Saturday night (somehow it’s hard to get a crowd on a weeknight).

If they agree on the free night, I will advertise/distribute/post some flyers with my picture. First impression is lasting; hence, I don’t get skimpy on my set-up. Look presentable, and then I give them a full 4 hr show. That’s how I do it.

In most cases they pretty much made up their mind to hire me even before I get started. I return following day to talk about how much I charge. Good luck, MrScott!

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To be fortunate enough to derive an income from a source as fulfilling as karaoke music has got to be as close to heaven as we can get here on earth!

IF (BIG IF!) I agree to do a freebie to get a regular gig out of it, I make SURE (!!!) that I talk with the owner/manager about me usual price BEFORE the freebie night, so there is no misunderstanding later on!

I see where you’re coming from, Sevarin, & I respect that, but competition to land a gig is brutal. Kinda hard to negotiate my price when they have no idea if I’m worth the amount or even if I can deliver. I don't want to induce a "sticker price shock". Oops, sorry, not a good analogy.

What I'm trying to say is it’s a gamble & that’s the chance I have to take. If I don’t get hired so be it. Only cost me 6 hrs of my time (set-up & tear down). My wife (KJ assistant) & I will have a great time nonetheless, better than staying home watching TV, or worse, my equipment in the garage gathering dust & cobwebs. No offense.

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To be fortunate enough to derive an income from a source as fulfilling as karaoke music has got to be as close to heaven as we can get here on earth!

I can now state that I can guarantee no suits since I passed all my audits. I got a covenant not to sue from both parties. I am also enrolling the venue in safeharbor which is free for the venue. So if the fear of lawsuits come out I'll just whip out my covenant not to sue and I should get hired if that is the reason they give for not wanting to hire me. If it's the price, I can't help them there, my price is my price.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

I offer the venue a increase in sales, tell them we will develop a crowd of regulars, and explain my marketing program.

I have 14 years in this business, my reputation speaks for itself. If you want to make money you want to hire me. I'm completely booked so now I have other DJ's on board.

The fact that our sound and lighting is second to none really isn't metioned. I just explain how we will make the owner more money.

If a bar makes $1000 - Average profit is 35% in the bar business so the owner takes home $350 that night. So it would take a sales increase of only $570 to make out $200 pay. With our marketing it will add sales to other nights also so a over all increase will happen. If they are making $2000 now the bar makes $500, $3000 in sales bar makes $750 after paying us $300. Profit will go up with higher volum as fixed cost remain the same and labor cost decreases.

You just need to know how to show owners value in your service.

Running a business isn't cheap My fixed cost is about $70 a karaoke gig so if I'm making any less than $200 a night it's just not worth it.

My newer shows I been trying to contract at $100 an hour or better. Especially the short shows. Our Applebee's karaoke nights are only 2.5 hours and have not % incentive so we charge the $100 an hour. We have a nightclub at we charge $125 an hour for a 3 hour show and most nights they keep us for a 4th hour. Again they didn't want to go sales incentive cause a good night they can ring $10,000+

Sell yourself not a price thats the problem I see with many people. Price should be what is talked about after the client has decided this is the guy I want to hire.

well stated and helpful Lyquiddye.

Thank you for sharing your experience.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Exactly my devised plan when applying for a gig. The freebie night I’m offering is to let them see firsthand what I can do.

Make that impression, influence their decision I’m the right guy for the job who can increase their sales, then we talk on how much my services is worth. Price will be last on the table. After my performance, I have more leverage to ask for a little more, & from their bargaining position I will end up with the price I really want. Happy Thanksgiving, y'all.

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To be fortunate enough to derive an income from a source as fulfilling as karaoke music has got to be as close to heaven as we can get here on earth!

Absolutely take the focus off "what do I have to pay you?" You have to get through to them that they aren't paying you out of what they make right now - they are paying you out of the increased funds that occur when they have you there for any given night or two nights.

I have done the graduated price thing a few times - say, for six weeks, I'll cut them a break. If at six weeks either of us feel like it isn't working, we can call it quits...or work on better marketing, which is usually what it comes down to. I work my axx off marketing my shows, especially places that have never had karaoke before. Even after six weeks it is often common to hear someone say that they never knew such-and-such a place has karaoke. Sometimes it just takes worth of mouth and an active grapevine.

Going to an area that far from where your following might be is always a risk -- you're starting from ground zero getting to know the local singing crowd. And as far as going 100 miles, I wouldn't even try it. Not sure what to suggest as far as them wanting to low-ball you like that. I guess my angle would be "let's work really hard at seeing what we can do to get it started" and tell them yah, the $75 works but they have to pay your transportation costs for six weeks or whatever time you agree on -- the trial time. Give them a number, say $50 for the cost of getting back and forth (or any number you like) and a six-week hard campaign to market/advertise. I think if you convince that you will assume more of an active part in marketing for them, and show intent to succeed, you may have better luck.

Karen, thanks for the input. However, there are a few factors that you probably aren't considering or even knowing about. First, in the are where I live, bars are far and few in between. Traveling a hundred miles is actually not uncommon. In fact there are only 2 bars less than 50 miles from me now. And only maybe 10 less than a 80 miles away. Are they busy? nope. Not in my state. (Utah) I already do 2 of the 10 less than 80 miles away. And competition is really a factor either, cuz I DO set myself apart from the others, much more professional, better sound, etc. It's all in the eyes of the venue owners on how they perceive karaoke. They either don't like it or think that it should only cost 75 bucks or so. All in perception.

The one I am considering is actually 140 miles away, and is in a town that I am very well known, but not for karaoke. I used to live there and have many friends that live there. The travel costs alone are over a hundred in gas alone! Housing would not be a concern because of my friends. Weather is always a concern tho. (2 mountains to cross)

Of the venues that are less than a 100 miles away, either already do karaoke, have a bad experience with it, or have the preconceived notion that it should cost about 75 bucks. Competition from pirates in these clubs is the reason for that last one. Of the 10 or so bars that are less than 80 miles away, a friend of mine does 3 of them and I WON'T step on her toes. So that cuts the options down to about 3 of them that have possibilities. Of those 3, it's the $75 dollar notion that is stopping me from doing them. That is how and what I am dealing with. And how do I solve it? That's the question.

Sorry to have to say this...
Mate. You know the answer as well as I do.
You live in the wrong place to do karaoke.

Better start work on a particle accelerator.

Wow where do you live?

I tried to find an exact number but I will drive up to 25 miles for a bar job. I don't know an exact number but my guess there is 1000+ bars within that radius.

I live in a small town like Pittsburgh. From my house I counted 50 bars less than 5 miles. Our South Side District has 140+ bars in 3 square miles.

Do other cities not have as many bars?

Wow where have you been?

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Pittsburgh is small??? It's in the top 70 for population in the US. It's in the top 25 for urban population in the US. I would call that a large market.

My market is about 22,000 for town, 45,000 for county. If I include the circular area 25 to 35 miles away, the market grows to about 400,000

I don't think I would like to do a regular gig where Ii have to drive over 50 miles but if it was my only job, I guess I would do it.

Good luck mrscott.

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KingBing Entertainment C'mon Up! I have a song for you!!! [font=MS Sans Serif][/font]

Thanks Rip. The entire county I live in only has about 23,000 people in it, and it covers a fairly large area. Here's the general scoop of what I deal with. The county I live in has only one bar, the county to the west of me has only 1 bar, the county to the south has only 1 bar, and the county to the north has about 5 bars but has a population of over 250,000 in that county. Utah sets how many liquor licenses can be sold with how many people live in the county. They will issue one license for every 7500 residents. Beer bar can open if they want anytime. But beer bars generally cannot afford to have entertainment here, although some do. Most bars here are small, seating only as many as a 100 or less. Fees imposed by the state for bars and clubs are extremely high, making it nearly impossible to turn a profit, only the ones who can cut corners or are very savvy can make it. Most go out of business within the first couple years or so. And most of them cut costs by not paying some of the music fees (dangerous for sure). Bar owners are usually not great business owners, some are their own best customers, others are just plainly not intelligent enough to run a business. Only a few have a good business sense. Hence, the fact that they use the notion that entertainment costs too much, instead of thinking that it can make their venues profitable and marketable.

Karaoke is always an option for most, but because of the distance I need to travel, the fees I charge must stay at least at the 150 or higher mark. But when they hear "$150", they sort of "gulp" a little and ask if I can go lower. Of course I tell them "no" and tell them why. It just doesn't occur to them that is a small price to be able to draw crowds, filling the tills with revenue.

I had the opportunity to visit one of the potential clubs Friday night. They were giving a "trial" run to a fellow that I know, but had never seen in action before. I didn't intend to stay all night, but did because I felt sorry for the gent. He didn't even know how to run his own equipment. I had to set it for him, really odd. If I hadn't stayed, he would have only had 3 singers (I made 4) The bar was dead, but I would have expected that because it was "black friday" and bars here are generally dead on that day. Last night I called the manager of the bar and asked her if she wanted to give me the same "trial" and she told me that I could but not until mid January. Seems she thinks that entertainment is a sparse function at this place. She told me that she has only 2 different bands coming to the bar before the end of the year! And one of them is for New Years Eve. They don't see the potential for having a steady flow of entertainment. I just shook my head. Guess they won't be getting my services at all. Now that puts me down to 2 other potential places is all. One of which is 140 miles away, the other about 85 miles away.

So, that is what I deal with all the time. I know, seems very bleak to me too. Wish me luck!