Karaoke Forums

Alright, gonna start by saying I think this is going to open a can of worms, but I really have to get this one out there for discussion.

For the last few weeks, I have been taking my nights off and visiting many other karaoke shows, and possible venues. I gotta tell you the state of karaoke in well, my state! So very sad. This should be the busy time of year around here. Summers usually drop off, but winter time, and in particular, Jan.- April, it should be rockin' the house. But, attendance at my shows is down a lot! So, that is what attributed to me looking around. EVERY place that I went to was dead! Except one, and that place was having a contest. I traveled over a hundred miles to visit new places too. I visited Wednesday shows and Friday shows. And found the same result. I also talked to owners, managers and hosts and every one of them told me the same story, that karaoke is dying, and so is the bar business in general. One place that I visited last night is a huge western club that has the potential of having over a thousand people attend. It only had about 75 people, and that was with a really good band too. This place also has a karaoke room, and I poked my head in and saw only about a dozen people.

I believe I know why too that things are dying. Mostly it's because of the economy. Our state is basically still on the decline. Another reason is the fact that so many hosts are ruining what was supposed to be a professional craft. Most of them are pirates for sure. They buy the cheapest equipment and think that they are doing a good job. They have it in their heads that if they host karaoke, that they can do whatever they want. The owners/managers of these venues are now in the opinion that karaoke should only cost 50 bucks to hire a host. Leaving the ones who work had perfecting their craft in the cold. I also visited one place last night for karaoke, that the guy was the epitome of "bad". Yet the manager was happy. I just shake my head.

I think, and I hope I'm wrong, but karaoke is coming to a slow painful death in the entire state where I live (Utah) And I don't think there is anything we can do about it. Even stopping or slowing piracy won't change things. Owners/managers are now stuck with the notion that karaoke is bad for business. Between bad decisions, bad hosts, and very restrictive laws/fees, the bar business in Utah is a losing proposition. Grim for sure. That's why I am changing directions, and it can't come soon enough.

I believe karaoke goes in cycles all over the place. Now your area isn't exactly the epitome of a hard-drinking city. Rural areas have been perhaps a bit more depressed, plus the price of gas really figures into the equation when you have to drive a distance. I am comparatively well-off and I still think about it before driving 30 minutes or more to get somewhere. Particularly if the sound or crowd is poor, or conversely if I am only going to get to sing once or twice.

I went to Jackson Hole, Wyoming three years ago, and they had no karaoke at all in the off season. The people there said that up until 2006, there was lots of karaoke everywhere. Then it died off.

Karaoke is doing pretty well in my second home area in Florida (Space Coast). Pretty decent attendance, lots of shows, not always great sound but some that sound pretty fair.

I have now been to over 350 different karaoke gigs in 140 cities, and it just varies from place to place. And I am betting it varies from time to time as well. I am guessing it will come roaring back when the economy picks up. Perhaps in 2013.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

For my own shows, I actually feel lucky after seeing most of the these other shows. I am holding my own, but attendance is still definitely down. And participation is also down. I have 3 shows per week. My saturday show is doing ok, but down about 15%. Thursdays is about 50% of what it was, and my Tuesday show is about 50% as well. Compare that to many of the others out there where capacities are maybe at best about 20% of normal. I really feel pretty good about how I do things. I offer the best sound, great customer service, good selection, and generally still have fun with it. But I still see the writing on the wall. And it makes me sad, very sad.

I wouldn't give up yet. Karaoke, like most things, runs in cycles.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

Who knows??? Maybe 15% of your crowds don't like those sing a longs at the end of the night so they stopped coming???

NOTHING could be further from the truth. And that is NOT an opinion.

But Bruce, thanks for your most kind and wise input. (*insert sarcastic smirk here)

Damn!! I was hoping to see that little guy banging his head against a wall again. ;c(


And I'm proud to be a Utahian
where all the Mormons hate GLEE
LA LA LA......

Yes, Rural areas certainly are harder hit then metropolitan ones.

I have four karaoke nights a week, and my show average between 10 and 20 singers a rotation.... AND that is a good number.

I tend to player in smaller, "Neighborhood" bars rather than larger bars, but I still get my$150 to $200 a night. That is because most of the people there are there because of the karaoke and DJ work that i do. I do mix it up a bit, with Dance music like cupid shuffle, and things.

I play the "Shots" song, and promote the drink special. We do really well with those. I make suggestions to the manager/ bartenders... about such specials and they sell.

There are many aspects to this business, from the equipment, to how you run your show, promote it, etc, and you are right, lame karaoke hosts ruin it for the rest of us.

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Good music, good friends, howling good times!

I think where I am most of the venue closures happened over a year ago. Things have stabilized since then. Still waiting for SC to start making discs again.

I am in a rural area comparatively and am holding my own with three shows - Wed, Thur & Fri. I have received offers to do other nights but since I don't want to burn out (AGAIN) I am holding back. I have three very different places, though, and was careful to do that when I took on shows. Mickey and Driz visited my Fri show - pretty common attendance those nights, which was a rotation of probably 14-20 singers over the course of the night. Of the 3 nights Wed is the one that may have suffered somewhat but just when I think it is hitting the skids, I'll have 3-4 VERY good weeks. I don't do contests...leave it to those who want to do the work for a very temporary boost. Still buying new music, replaced a crummy little old tv (singer monitor) with a 15-inch flatscreen, etc., etc. Have to keep it fresh and give people a reason to come in.

I don't think that karaoke will ever die. It's still the number one form of entertainment. Unfortunately, it seems that your area is going through a slump right now but it will turn around. I do agree that pirates and bad hosts are ruining it for the rest of us. I can only hope that SC and Chartbuster step in and do something to turn this industry around.

If venues only hire pirates because they're cheap, that puts the legal KJ out of a job. And without jobs, there's going to be no one purchasing new music. And without KJ's purchasing new music, hurts the manufacturers. To a point that there's no longer a reason for them to stay in business.

So, it's simple:

Manufacturers get rid of the pirates which in turn gives us jobs, affording us to continue to buy new music which keeps the manufacturers in business.

Scott:
Hang in there, buddy. At least you got three shows! Keep the faith.

I agree it's in a sad state but not for lack of singers around here. I had a record turnout last night, had 47 people sing, 66 songs completed. Had 55 sign up, 8 left or never sang. Bar was packed and rockin!

Last time we got close to those numbers singing we had $6K+ nights at the bar. Last night under $3K. I worked waaaaayyyy too hard for the numbers we pulled in.

I believe people are going out but are on strict budgets. I hope it gets better.

Simple...
Hmmm...
Yes Manu's. bail us out. We are having a hard time.
Spend all your money if you have any on getting rid of pirates.
Not so simple Alan.
Nor is it their responsibility.

Sorry but if anyone has a stake in getting rid of the pirates it's the Manu's
They are doing their part but need our help in doing it.
as KJathena would say:
"How do you eat an elephant ? One bite at a time
How do you end karaoke piracy ? one pirate at a time"

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Sorry to hear business is slow where you guys are. It seems to be slower here in Kansas City as well, -- they just instituted a smoking ban a couple of years back as well as the local economy being the way it is and I think there's a bit of a transition going on in the clientele with more non-smokers starting to consider an evening out at a smoke free venue and with the bars figuring out how they can provide better service for the smokers who were literally left out in the cold by the changes - especially in the winter time.

I believe things could get good again, but I view the loss of the US manufacturing base as our biggest fundamental problem that needs to be addressed. People who don't have jobs don't have money to waste on going out to the bar. Hopefully some tariffs on imports from companies that illegally subsidize their exports or engage in currency manipulation will emerge and let some US businesses come back to life. I view the piracy issue as secondary to those considerations.

47 singers last night and still low receipts. No shortage of singers, a shortage of people spending money.

Piracy only affects the KJ marketplace for show availability and pricing. It really doesn't increase/decrease the number of people willing to spend money at shows. It likely dilutes the number of singers at shows. However it does not make people spend less when they do come to your show.

Overall it has cheapened what we we do. I remember always spending more for at my favorite bar when they had a great live band , which we rarely see anymore, or going out to that special karaoke night we once experienced. It's become a trickle down effect. The karaoke is watered down so that when it does happen it's no longer a great show or event.

I'll not dispute that at all. My contention, odd as it may seem, is that pirates have opened the door for many people who never sang before. When a singer find a good solid show they keep coming back.

I've yet to see a disreputable host really prosper but they limp along with cut rate everything. They undercut their ability to maintain their song selection, maintain equipment and improve and eventually die off allowing their singers to come to my show (or yours).

When solid digital right management (DRM) is created for our business we'll see a dramatic downturn in pirates without a dramatic downturn of demand. That equates to good days for us all.

Should only take 25 years for that to happen

Our little town is just about as economically depressed as one can get.... Several factories have closed their doors over the past few years leaving something like 40% of adult males out of work... but Karaoke is strong, and getting stronger. I currently work two nights a week, and could do at least three, and possibly four or five if I wanted to. My typical night sees 30 to 35 singers.

Where I see any downturn, the causes seem to be much stricter drinking and driving enforcement, and the mandated smoke-free public places laws.

With Ontario's new "0.05" law... people can have their vehicle impounded, fined two thousand dollars, and lose their license for several days... for having two beers!!

In this area, it's the bands that have suffered most... but Karaoke is alive and well.

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Earl
(BS, PHD & Certified CurmuDJeon)

[font=Times New Roman]"Growing Old may be mandatory... but growing UP is still optional."[/font]

we still have rotations of 18 - 25 singers wed - sat. but what i see happening out here in AZ is that the crap (@$%&#!) shows dont lose anybody. you can suck as bad as you want to and nobody cares either way. they always have full rotations. cant quite wrap my brain around that one. we put everything we have into providing the best show we can muster, and Johnny half-ass with his radio shack crap gear, SGB collection of 5000 tracks and "i'm doing you a favor by being here" attitude is doing just as well as any great company i know. want to bang my head against a wall. i care....a lot about what i do and try to be the best i can be at it. but sometimes i wonder why? if nobody cares, why should i and that is not my normal attitude but it has taken a toll on my mind.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens