Karaoke Forums

I have been at my bar for about 7 years.

When I first started, my bar had two DJ nights (Tuesday and Friday), a Band night (Thursdays), and a Poker night (Mondays) to go along with my two karaoke nights (Wednesdays and Saturdays).

This year alone, my owner has stopped band night, stopped poker night, and stopped the Tuesday DJ night, leaving only the Friday night DJ and my two karaoke nights. Even the Friday DJ used to be a pro that made $125.00 a night, and now is a 18 year-old kid who makes $50.00 a night taking requests and playing them off Rhapsody, which I can't imagine is legal.

Anyway, point being that ALL entertainment is stuggling, and at least here karaoke might be the strongest of all even though it is taking it's lumps too. I used to play to 100+ people every Wednesday and 200+ people every Saturday, and now I probably average about 60 on Wednesdays and about 125 on Saturdays, but I'm still making the bar money!

I'm in Tampa Bay, FL, where we have the 4th highest unemployment in the country and 3rd worst housing market in the country. We used to have a GREAT live music scene, and free Texas Hold-em used to be in almost every bar in town.

But now, there are only a fraction of the live music venues there used to be, and even most of those have 1-2 man acoustic groups instead of full bands these days. Likewise, poker nights are now only in about 1/4 of the bars they used to be.

BUT, I can honestly say that about 75%+ of bars that had karaoke 2 years ago still have karaoke, even if they may be paying a bit less than they used to because of the larger problem of not as many people having not as much disposable income.

So, don't cry for karaoke. It is alive and well in Tampa Bay, FL, and I'm sure will get back to 2006-2007 levels once people can afford to open up their pocketbooks again, which is certainly coming sooner than later!

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C Mc
KJ, FL

Karaoke had it's heyday and as with most fads it has died down considerably.

Used to be a time when any jerkoff with enough money (or credit) could put together a system and a decent catalog and go hit the bars, and by the time they paid the credit card bill at the end of the month, they still had plenty of money left over.

That crowd 10 and 15 years ago is just that much older today. The kids in their freewheeling early 20's are closing in on 40 now, with families, jobs, etc.

The retirees and older singers that used to come in and sing the old country classics and frank sinatra tunes are older, too.. or dead.

Not to fear.. a new crop of 20 somethings have stepped in to fill the void.. but they're not the same crowd.. and what they want is different.

As entertainers, because that's what we are first and foremost, entertainers, we need to evolve to meet the demands of our patrons.

I get a kick out of people blaming everything and everyone but themselves for slow shows. It's the economy.. it's the pirates.. come on.

One thing history shows us is that when times are bad people NEED that escape.. that diversion.. the entertainment.

It's just that when times are lean, patrons are just a bit more selective with where they spend their entertainment dollar.

You think the pimple faced kid running karaoke off a netbook and a $300 hard drive he bought off craigslist is the reason your shows are slow? Please. If that kind of host is any kind of challenge to your show or what you do, then you should sell your equipment today and take up another hobby.

The industry evolves with the ever changing demands of the patrons, which.. like it or not, is an ever increasing younger crowd.. a crowd with slightly different tastes than the generation before them.

Not to say that there aren't still old school karaoke venues out there catering to the old school crowd. There definitely are. But as time marches on those times of venues are becoming fewer and farther between.

It's really just natural selection, man. Adapt or die.

Cheese, I agree with you on varying levels on some of what you said. But, did you even read my original post? Economy is the biggest reason for the decline in my opinion. Piracy has little to do with it. But, the fact that these people running bad shows has given karaoke a huge disadvantage anymore. Owners/managers no longer see the value in what we do as "professional" hosts. These "jerkoffs", as you call them, have ruined our niche in the entertainment business.

Now, I do agree with you that the faces in the crowd are changing and always will do so. I can and do adapt quite nicely to whatever the crowd can dictate. But, the fact that between the strict laws, economy and the general view of bars in general in our state, we are suffering. We can't depend on the tourists and the young crowds. They just aren't stable enough of a clientele. The young ones don't spend money, and the tourists are only in certain regions of the state. Just because things are tough, doesn't mean people are going to the bars to drown their sorrows, it means they are drinking at home now instead. Liquor sales at the stores is up in record numbers, but bar business is down, also in record numbers.

So, don't tell me that the economy doesn't have anything to do with it, you don't live here, now do you? I do everything in my power to give the crowd what they want, but there just isn't the crowds anymore.

Not the case in our show. Our regs are there in big groups who are also regs, and I know they all do outside activities together as well. I think 'some' karaoke singers can be construed as lonely as every once in a while i'll someone sitting by their self, but I do not believe that is the norm for most singers.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Scott,

You need to re-energize your karaoke spirit. I recommend visiting me. Things are going to change for the awesome sauce.

Well, Mrs Cott.. I wasn't actually directing my comments at you specifically, but more to all that has been said in this thread up to this point.. where pirates have been blamed as a significant factor in the overall decline in karaoke business across the board, with one person going so far as to hope SoundChoice and Chartbuster will hurry up and intervene.

To the piracy question I simply say this: If a kid with a hard drive full of bootleg music can walk in and take your show because he works cheaper, then you're not doing your job as an entertainer.

That's not directed at any one person specifically.. it's directed at anyone who thinks SoundChoice suing a pirate.. or all the pirates in the world.. is going to improve your average karaoke jock's business.

Further, straight dry toast karaoke shows are going the way of the 8 track tape. If you're not playing to the younger crowd.. you're playing to a small percentage of an already shrinking niche market.

That means accommodating later arrivals (within reason), and maybe adjusting rotations to help the night flow better.. and maybe playing the occasional dance song (or block of 2 or 3 dance songs) between rotations.. all things i've mentioned on this board over the last few months, but is generally met with "Oh that will never work!" or "That's a great way to ruin a show!"

That's what I do, and my three regular weekly shows are packed and i'm about to add a fourth.

Just saying.. if what you're doing isn't working.. or isn't working anymore.. maybe it's time to make some adjustments.

Cheese, you still misunderstanding what I have been saying. ALL bars are down in attendance. Do I fear a little punk turd taking over my show? Nope. Cuz I am doing everything in my power to build them up. And that does include catering to whomever might walk thru the door. Problem is, not many people are walking thru the door because THEY DON"T HAVE MONEY TO SPEND! And no amount of good entertainment is going to pay the bills if nobody is there to view/participate in it.

I am glad to see that what we are going thru here in Utah isn't the usual case in all areas. But, here we fight tooth and nail for every dime we spend. The average annual income is lower than most of the nation, we have the highest percentage of non-drinkers in the nation, we have some of the most restrictive liquor laws in the country. Now add the fact that the economy is so bad, it's a recipe for disaster. A good night sales in one of my venues might be just over a grand. Some nights it's only a few hundred bucks. It's hard for a bar to justify having any entertainment costs at all, yet they still do because they know what the alternative would bring. The average sales per person varies of course, but it's only somewhere in the 10-12 dollar range is all. And a packed house of over a hundred only yields maybe 1500 on a good night. Compare that to the rest of the country's average sales. Big clubs that used to tens of thousands of dollars per night now only get a grand or two. Smaller clubs are barely hanging on with sales well under a thousand, maybe even down to a couple hundred. Don't tell me that making a few adjustments as you call it, gonna save the economy.

Oh, and by the way, if you EVER call me Mrs. Cott again, I'm gonna come down to Arizona and turn you into swiss cheese!!! GOT IT! I don't take kindly to being belittled by anyone!!! You have seen what my name is, as well as seen the picture of me to the left. DON"T EVER be rude to me again.

Cheese I'm going to spell out my future.

I just cut a deal with Kurt to supply content for my karaoke Jukes. I'm going to walk into venues, and offer my jukeboxes cheaper than any pirate (since everything is automated and the customer pays $1 per song to sing)

Part of the sales pitch will be showing the venue owner what a GEM set looks like, articles about the lawsuits, and warning them of the danger of hiring a pirate. Kurt is supplying all the anti-piracy literature.

Now your mindset of "Not doing your job as an entertainer" is wrong. Entertainment is the product, and this is a business. You want to pirate? I want to tell your boss and turn you into the right people.

I'm tired of these guys. I've run a good, honest show for 10 years. I've pushed the technological envelopes of what can be done with karaoke (and there's some CRAZY stuff coming) and where has it gotten me? One pirate in my area runs 7 venues on Friday night! I haven't been able to expand out due to this, but thanks to Kurt and company, I will be doing so very soon.

I'm going to be screwing the pirates soon and put them out of work. I should stock up on condoms.

Disagree to a point. Have seen it happen to good kj's & has happened to me once. My scenerio was simple. We were hired by the bar, turned a $400 night into an avg $1500 night. The bar was sold, but they kept us and the rest of the bar staff for a few weeks. Business still doing good. The new owner didn't want to pay my prices & hired a company with a set of burned discs, no books, blown subs & didn't connect into any of the bar tv's, took up the stage with the system so there was no room to stand - he charged $100 which was $100 less than me. Their business dropped from $1500 avg to maybe $300 according the bartender that was/is a friend of mine. I even walked in there one night & saw 4 people in building, the bartender, the host me & another guy at the other end of the bar playing a video game. The owner called me back up 2 weeks later asking me to come back, but low & behold my price went up in that wime frame and he didn't want to pay it (however I really didn't want it back anyway), but if he paid I would've. So yes even if a kj is doing their job, they can be replaced with a pirate for chump money. Eventually they dropped karaoke, and dropped live music/entertainment altogether and are now out of business completely.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I hope for your sake you were joking.. otherwise I think I just discovered why your shows are sucking.. you have 0 sense of humor.. which isn't generally a good trait for an entertainer.

If you can't take the occasional good natured ribbing, well then by all means come on down to Arizona douchebag.. because that's what people who threaten other people on internet message boards are. Douchebags.

No thread intended. And yep, I have a great sense of humor, but by no means will I EVER allow myself to be belittled by ANYONE! I won't stand for it. I used to be teased and harassed as a child and won't let someone who is supposed to be an "adult" do the same thing. Name calling is childish and you know it!

You sure you don't get into fights at that bar? Because if you think karaoke kiosks are going to takeoff in most of the U.S., you've clearly taken one too many blows to the head.

There have been many attempts at karaoke vending machines.. for years now.. and the primary reason they don't take off is because there ISN'T a host.

The second reason is most people simply will not pay $1 a song to sing karaoke.

Sure.. there are a few niche markets out there.. but I assure you such setups represent probably less than 10% of the current U.S. karaoke 'market'.

Odds are the pirates that you '(@$%&#!)' will either settle with SC and continue, or their shows will be replaced with KJ's with legitimate catalogs.

They'll pay $1 to play rockband, or guitar hero, or DDR. Why not karaoke? If it's there, they'll feed it money.

In fact, they'll feed it about $88 dollars a night, not including bribes.

Well you know what dude.. when I was a kid I had ears about 9 times too big for my head and I got (@$%&#!) for it constantly. As I got into middle school a counselor convinced me that knocking peoples teeth out was probably not going to get me anywhere in life, so I learned to take the other path.

If you're going to come uncorked because of what some nimrod on a message board says, I can just imagine what would happen if someone yelled 'You suck!" at one of your shows.

Get some help, dude. Lots of people get picked on as a kid.

Sorry to hear you work in Utah. It's a beautiful place to visit.. but the mormon infuence runs deep in those parts.

That's 9/10ths of your problem right there.

Cheese, I treat each person I meet with a level of respect they deserve. I call them by the name of their choice. I never degrade anyone by calling them, f--er or biotch, or as you say "douchebag". My name is Scott. I enjoy and expect to be called just that. Now ya get it?

I am an easy going guy, who gets along with almost everyone. Laughing, smiling and joking with the best of them. But when someone crosses the line of being rude to others, I step up and say something. You crossed the line.

Scott...

I don't know of many people even offering Rockband.. let alone charging a dollar a song to play it.

Now I agree.. you stick it in the corner, and you'll get people sticking dollars in it now and then.. but I can't see it having the wide spread appeal.. let alone as a replacement for a host and show.. especially not with casual singers.

Now let's say you resolve the whole how to keep the rotation straight with the patrons.. how to get it to mute the jukebox (and how to keep the guy who just put $5 in the jukebox from getting pissed the karaoke machine just muted the jukebox)

Let's say you resolved the sound system/mixing issues associated with automated karaoke, AND you get it all slapped into an industrial strength enclosure with pretty user interface and touchscreen display.

At $1 a song, average song length about 5 minutes.. you have the potential to make a whopping $12 an hour.. gross

Now assuming you've convinced the bar to host this machine for free.. meaning you don't have to give them a cut of the machines take like everyone else does with pool tables, dart machines, and jukeboxes.. you still have to pay something for the music catalog and the hardware.

So.. good luck with that.

Actually it comes out to about $19.55 an hour (not including bribes)

I have 22 months of data to back up my claims. When you show me real data, that you actually collected (like sticking a machine somewhere, and it's not making money for 22 months) then you can join this discussion. Otherwise it's just your conjecture vs my facts.

Cheese:I am not going to disagree with you at all there. I happen to be one of those Mormon influences. Most of Utahs residents retain much of their morals, despite the fact the ongoing changes in the world. We sort of like it that way. I don't drink, smoke, do drugs, go slutting around or sell my soul to the devil. I don't have horns and I don't have multiple wives. Utah is normal in all respects. In fact, it's a place that many others envy.

Karaoke is just one of the things that I felt that fit what I wanted to do. I didn't start hosting to sing more, I didn't want to do it get chicks, I don't have a power complex like some. I have never considered myself to be a "singer", although I can sing I simply wanted to do something that I enjoyed and am good at, hosting. I offer the very best show I can with what I have to offer, good system, good selection and good personal, very considerate service. I always put the needs/wants of the customers ahead of my own. I give them what they want. But, I will not stoop to name calling.