Karaoke Forums

No, actually policy at MOST bars or any type of customer service place, would be to have the owner or manager or if there was a true security type person is to call the police. OK, how do we call the police? umm the number is 911. We do NOT put ourselves in harms way unless there is no alternative. Haven't you ever heard of stories of the guy at the convenience stores playing "hero" and only winding up dead or fired. Because they didn't follow policy!!! Not saying what Topher wasn't able to accomplish was a bad thing or not, but give the guy a break, nobody was hurt, no blood was drawn, and the guy was eventually sent packing. Happy ending to a potential bad story.

You know, it's heroics like that bruce that will either get you killed, or in a lawsuit one day. I hope you wise up for your families sake.

I should also mention that the county sheriff and our city police have specificly told bars to "Not lay a hand on customers" after this incident.

http://www.losgatosobserver.com/los-gat ... hp?id=0916

Here's a quote.

Labrie said, "You're outta here!" just before pushing him 10 feet to the door and flinging him backward onto the sidewalk. The back of Wranovics head began bleeding immediately.

I don't touch people. Ever. Not my job. Bouncers make way more than I do as doorman, and are of the physical statute to handle that. I'm not.

THE GUY TOOK A JOB AS A DOORMAN. It's his job to recognize trouble makers and keep them OUTSIDE.

OK fine.
He suddenly becomes super human.
Yes cool.
Waiting for my turn.

Lol.. somebody has to be, or you guys would all be speaking German over across the pond today.

I'm sure the person who ends up getting hurt next time has family at home they'd like to get to at night, too.. and they figured going to a nice club with a DOORMAN would be a safe place to go.. but they'd be wrong if they showed up at your club, wouldn't they?

First it's the guy was a giant.. next it was because of your dental work.. now it's because you have a family at home.. those are all reasons to turn in your little clipboard and stay behind the booth and leave the business of securing the club to people who have the testicular fortitude for the job.

Jerry I'm now appointing you doorman of 7 Bamboo.

Your first act as doorman, use your superpower of flight to commute to work.

Cheese,

How about these three things, and then some run through my head everytime I'm in a situation like this? I'm not going from one thing to the other, just saving the million or so reasons to not get physical (and I'm not supposed to get physical) and presenting them one at a time, just to tire you out.

It's all a part of my plan. Yes, that's it.

Many, many moons ago, when I was 18 years old, I used to be a security guard at a coal mine during a coal strike. This one happened to be very peaceful, unlike the one that they had just 4 years before, where people were actually shot at, tires flattened, drivers threatened, etc. We were told this simple thing. "A pile of coal isn't worth your life". Policy was to call the police first, ask questions second. Luckily nothing happened, and the strike was ended peacefully and productively.

Topher, I am in the opinion that you did the right thing in calling the police. Most bars should have a good relationship with their local police agencies. If they don't, then a huge level of mistrust will lead to even more serious problems. What I saw here was a person who played the "I'm sorry card" and was a bullied his way up on stage, using his size to intimidate someone. The lack of ability to make the music stop in an instant only aided this bully's ability to continue his behavior. Nothing you did wrong, it just happened.

You did the right thing,,, and I still don't see any John Wayne types in here yet.

(I'm, not gonna fight ya pilgrim!!)

Scotty
Kick the pilgrim out of here

If those types of people are going to be let into the establishment on any kind of regular basis, one of three things needs to happen:

1. You need a REAL bouncer.

OR

2. Get some pepper spray or a stun gun (I don't advocate this method at all, and it's obviously the last resort kind of thing).

OR

3. Just accept the fact that random a-holes are going to occasionally come in, cause chaos, throw your mic, and ruin your show, without anyone doing much about it.

I know I wouldn't host, or even attend, a show that had this kind of potential for disaster. Seeing that guy up there doing as he pleased for 3 minutes -- ATROCIOUS.

All of a sudden I am feeling great relief at not having huge testicles. Or any, for that matter.

Are you a woman leopard?

I got to wonder, if you had posted this instead of me, would folks have expected you to ro-sham-bo this guy.

Discuss.

Well my situation is different from most, if not all of you on the board. I don't take crap and can back it up with 30 yrs in law enforcement and private practice and the vast majority of our singers know it. So drunks, big or small don't bother me. Now dunk women on the other hand..............

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You can be strange but not a stranger

I was waiting for you to come back around...

So timberlea, since you're law enforcement, what are the laws concerning physically tossing a patron out? How far are we allowed to take it, if it all?

Can't we be charged with assault, or does the "castle" law come into effect? Oh wait, Canada doesn't have a castle law. (Not saying that to be offensive, but I just read a story the other day about it)
http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/01/20 ... attackers/

Like Timberlea, I'm a fairly big boy at 6' and 260, I'll admit to being about 30 lbs over my "fighting trim", and also like him, I spent the majority of my working life first in the military, followed by a long career in emergency services...

In over 30 years of part-time and full-time DJ and KJ work, I can count on one hand the number of verbal abuses directed towards me, and on just one occasion where I've had to physically restrain someone.

My Karaoke set-up is such that, I hand the microphone to singers as they approach the KJ booth/area... I do not use corded mics on stands (although I keep a stand set up)... All of the equipment is behind a facade, and there's only one entrance. So, anyone wanting to grab a mic, and act stupid would have to get past me first.

As far as my Karaoke shows are concerned, If someone is obviously intoxicated, they don't get to sing... If somebody has a history of abusiveness in the venue, they don't get to sing... That's the way both the management and our patrons like it.

I agree with those who say security staff are paid to provide security... we are paid to entertain... and ne'er the twain should meet... except in absolutely exceptional circumstances.

It should be noted that, in our jurisdiction at least, we don't have the traditional "bouncers"... We have security staff, who's job is to provide for the safety of our patrons, our staff, and the premisis (in that order)... They do this by intervening verbally, and exercise physical restraint only as a last resort. In every case where physical intervention is required, the local police must be called.



Cheers

Earl

p.s. to Timberlea... HMCS Stadacona, Chaudiere, Assinaboine & "the Bonnie" mid-sixties.

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Earl
(BS, PHD & Certified CurmuDJeon)

[font=Times New Roman]"Growing Old may be mandatory... but growing UP is still optional."[/font]

What do you plan to dunk them with?

Thank you so much for saving us.

Yeah but it took them long enough to get involved.

My father served on the Bonnie.

Toquer, read the whole article. A charge is not a conviction and rightly or wrongly we have more stringent firearms legislation. Most have been acquitted in these kinds of cases. I have also read a number of similar cases in the US where the homeowner has been convicted of using excessive force. So there's nothing new there. Here is the law in Canada, The Criminal Code of Canada.

Defence of house or real property

41. (1) Every one who is in peaceable possession of a dwelling-house or real property, and every one lawfully assisting him or acting under his authority, is justified in using force to prevent any person from trespassing on the dwelling-house or real property, or to remove a trespasser therefrom, if he uses no more force than is necessary.
Assault by trespasser

(2) A trespasser who resists an attempt by a person who is in peaceable possession of a dwelling-house or real property, or a person lawfully assisting him or acting under his authority to prevent his entry or to remove him, shall be deemed to commit an assault without justification or provocation.

R.S., c. C-34, s. 41.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Yes, female. This subject is just a bit bothersome right now because I have had an overdose of "(@$%&#!) kicking" talk lately. It used to be that any type of altercation at a show would be few and far between but lately we have had a fight or almost fight weekly at one show or another.

My strategy is to throw myself on the equipment and try to become invisable--with my hand on my cell phone. I have also started to look around and alert the bar tendress if I see anyone arguing so she can nip it in the bud. But I have missed a few, lately. The boyfriend is 6"4" and he will aid if needed or if someone lands on him he will hold them but he doesn't get into it unless it has actually proceeded to violence and help is needed to seperate people.

What I have noticed is even our female bartender can quietly talk a person out of the bar before things escalate IF she is allowed to do her job. When people feel they have to come help her or "have her back" or "kick (@$%&#!)," it only escalates things. The less people involved, the better. If she can't do it, then she would call the Sheriff but it is her decision based on the guidelines she has been given.

Well, lately, we have all of these big men in there bragging about how they aren't going to let anyone mess up the bar and they will "kick (@$%&#!)," at any given moment. A rude comment, a rude gesture, a rumor are all considered valid reasons for "kicking (@$%&#!)." They say they are making people feel safe. They are making me start to feel unsafe. We have had a problem in the town with young hot heads and stolen guns. Lots of unbalanced people running around these days. So you have hopped up people, or people with no brains--or testicles for brains, weapons, alcohol--kicking (@$%&#!) just seems like a dangerous thing to do. Talk them down and if you can't, call the sheriff. You try to take them out yourself, all of the customers are going to join in and you don't know who is carrying what or who won't be able to control their response.

Oh--and the other reason that I am getting sick and tired of the (@$%&#!) kicking mentality is that every time there is a fight, people stay away and the bar gets a dangerous rep. I am not grateful to those who think they need to use violence to keep order--I am starting to hate them for taking the food right out of my mouth.

With 20-20 hindsight.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.