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I've been working in bars for a lot of years.. many of them juke joint dive bars.

98% of troublemakers will leave without any kind of physical intervention. Sure they'll yell a little bit.. do their chest beating bravado bullshit on their way out the door.. might even knock over a barstool or two.. but 98% of trouble will walk out the door under their own power when diplomatically told to go by bouncers/doormen.. even female bartenders.

When they say, "Oh yea? Well what if I *DON'T* leave?"

you say, "Well then i'll call the cops. You can spend the night in your bed, or you can spend the night in the drunk tank.. you pick, (@$%&#!)."

Most troublemakers have had run ins with the law before. Many may have outstanding warrants for stupid things like parking tickets, driving under suspension, back child support, etc. Those people really don't want the local constabulary running them for wants and warrants.

A drunk who just won't leave is not an emergency. It is not something you dial 911 for, it's something you call the non-emergency police number for, and only after you've exhausted all your options.

As exhibited by your own video.. simply telling the guy to hit the road and muting the microphone was enough to get him off the stage within 30 seconds, grab is bag, and leave.

Thanks for sharing leopard. You bring up a good point of your bars reputation when you have gung ho patrons deciding to police things. Here's what happened to me one night when one of our "Regulars" decided to regulate.

http://www.yelp.com/biz/7-bamboo-san-jo ... n7Q3qOF_eg

[quote="Megan P]
At some point a bunch of young hipster frat-like bags came in and started trouble, along with the help of the young and cocky has-something-to prove bouncer on roids, ruining my night and the vibe. I'm hoping this was an isolated incident and not the usual because I'd like to return to this neat little spot - but I stay away from clubs to stay away from the frattitude.
[/quote]

I was at the front door checking ID's when it started. Basically, one regular hit on someones girl, and his boyfriend came up, then his 5 brothers got up, then another regular decided to be "bouncer" without consulting me first. I had to separate the parties, put mr "bouncer" in his place, make each one go into their own corner, and talk to each individual at the center of the BS.

We had a doorman last year that is also a MMA fighter. We had 5 incidents of him beating the crap out of drunks that couldn't really defend against that. The last straw was the last fight where at the end of it, the drunk was on the ground in a fetal position while he was kicking them in the head. It wasn't something I want to see again.

When you have someone like that, it's like having a pit bull. You don't know when they're gonna snap, and when they do, you won't be able to stop them. The owners and I were really scared about getting sued, we talked about it often. When he quit, they offered me the job in addition to my other duties because they knew I wouldn't handle it like that.

True, but he walked off and tried to sneak back in later, yelling, screaming, trying to bait me into a fight because I wouldn't let him back in. That part wasn't in the video.

Which it is why it is encumbant on the employer to conduct a proper interview for staff, especially security to ensure he/she knows the law. Just because someone is MMA, or as big as a refrigerator does not equal to a good doorman/bouncer/security or whatever you want to call it. Hiring someone who doesn't know what they are doing is inviting future lawsuits.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

You know what the funny thing was tim? He was *TINY* Tiny, bald headed 20something japanese guy. Man he could fight though.

Ok. You so have to be AKA Ken B the following poster.

Nah I'm this guy.

http://www.yelp.com/user_details?userid ... 8Xc96TrnTw

You're not allowed to review your own business (I did, and the review was pulled)
I don't know who ken is, but I like his review.

I've seen "tough guy" KJs destroy a bar's reputation. "Tough Guy" KJ's seem to be itching for a fight to prove how tough and valuable they are to the bar. This only brings in more "Tough Guy" patrons (sometimes for revenge) because that's the drunken environment in which they thrive. Then "Tough Guy" KJ brings in his "Tough Guy" friends so he can show-off how tough he is.

This happened to one of my favorite venues. It was one of the friendliest and most peaceful places until they hired the "Tough Guy". "Tough Guy" was more concerned with impressing little girls than putting on a quality show. The bar went from zero fights to a fight every night he worked.

Of course this drove out the customers that wanted to have a good time and feel safe (including the little girls that used to swoon). Then one day "Tough Guy" found out he wasn't as tough as he thought. A lightning fast beat down of him and his friends in front of a few little girls one night showed him the light.

Amazingly the bar owners never added up what was happening to their reputation and why. Now the place is struggling to get their business back and still hasn't replaced the "Not so Tough Guy". (Seems bar owners are their own worst enemies.)

As for this particular incident, the truly professional KJs I know would have instantly turned off the micrphone, and the music if neccessary. Taking away his imaginary audience and putting a different kind of spotlight on the clown. If he's not served drinks, has no audience, and no one wants to fight him, he'll have no reason to stay.

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KNOW THYSELF

I like to take the long view in these matters. No one was hurt, nothing was broken, and the guy is gone. Whatever Toqer did the end result was perfect.

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Okay, who took my pants?

yep yep! I couldn't agree more!!!

Now, I love all you Kippers and Canucks, but dang it leave Americans out of this - there's lots of us just minding our own business around here staying out of all this chest thumping -- but if someone wants to make this a hate on America thing well it's gonna get ugly and speakin' of the duke....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lX4hN2KAaww

I'm a good sized guy at 245 and not half the man I used to be - not too many people mess with me, but truthfully I'm very grateful about that because I'm a soft-hearted teddy bear inside. I sympathize with you in a situation like this Toqer. I've never felt like it's easy to deal with an obnoxious drunk.

If you are able to use your brains to defuse the situation instead of beating somebody up I'm all for you even if it does take a bit longer to get it done that way.

I don't understand this at all. I am a KJ. Not a bouncer or doorman or security. It's just not my job.

If someone is causing problems, I cut all mics & music. Silence goes a LONG way in helping out. Then I get on MY mic and call loudly for the manager because there is a problem. And wait. When the show comes to a screeching halt, people start moving. Often the angry crowd yelling at the offender will cause them to leave before the manager even gets there.

I have to say that as a female who has been running shows in all manner of venues over the past 15 years, I think ONE time in all those years I have had to 'strong arm' somebody off my stage. Mostly because I don't let them get that close. If you are in this biz you become pretty aware of who is in the place, who is cruising for trouble, who is waiting for someone to cause trouble, etc. I usually can touch 1-2 guys who are good convincers, not because of their size but because of their demeanor, who could discretely convince someone to leave.

Again, I will attribute this to "omigod, she's giving me that look that my mother used to give me," and they basically run. Hey, but I don't abuse it...

Oh, and my Wed night gig bartender is a young blonde woman who has the most amazing ability ever to run someone headlong out of the place before anybody even realizes what has happened. I think sometimes even burly drunk dudes get caught offguard by a female who will take absolute control...maybe that's the reason a lot of places have young female bartenders, I don't know.

Exactly size, age, gender doesn't have anything to do with it. You can usually talk someone out before anything escalates & if they refuse, THEN call the cops.

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In situations like what happened here, you don't try to reason with someone who is drunk, that's not possible. Don't talk with them, talk AT them, take charge and simply state what you want to happen, and make it happen. In other words, don't ask them to leave, TELL them to leave. No discussion, no choice. You don't have to belittle anyone or embarrass them, but take charge and make it happen. End of situation.

But, I still believe what toqer did was proper. Unless the manager/owner gives him the authority to make those decisions, it should have been in the hands of management, not toqer's. Just my short sighted observation.

Ok, my 2 cents.

I watched the video when it was first posted. Mic should have been muted immediately. Chances are, he would have got the message and walked away. If not, time to tell him sternly to get off the stage. If that doesn't work, it's time to tell him to get the f$%^ off the stage now!

Tough guy or not tough guy, doesn't matter to me. I'm not a big guy but I had a big mouth growing up so I had to learn to fight because I got in a lot of them! Kids tended to pick on me because I was extremely small for my age. I never backed down and then started wrestling all the way thru hs. Started out my sophomore year as a 90 pounder wrestling at 98. All 5 foot of me. By the end of the school year, I was 115 and 5'7". Became a pretty good wrestler. Didn't get any taller but I do weight 180 now (c'mon bike,,, faster!)

Got in a lot of bar fights (at 18 in Iowa back then, you were legal to drink) again because I didn't take crap.

Since then, I learned to talk out of fights. Just didn't see the point in them anymore.


However, if someone is trying to bully my show (hasn't happened yet) I won't allow it and will take the steps needed to get him/her off my stage. Whatever those steps might be. It's a bar, drunks are gonna happen.

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