Karaoke Forums

We get dancers to bad singers too regardless - provided it's a more upbeat/danceable song, the music beat is what gets people going, not so much the singer - although it does help to have the whole package.

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That is why I like to buy as good a brand/track as I can afford--a good music track will get people out there, regardless of the singer. I am used to going to shows where the people dance to karaoke--in fact I always danced and never even attempted to sing until well over a year.

People(KJs) who want to play DJ type dance music in the middle of a karaoke show will always try to rationalize a reason for doing it. It's usually because they want the "show" to be more about the KJ and less about the singing customers. It's usually male KJs that do this to try to make some pretty little thing happy at the expense of everyone else at the bar who actually came for the KARAOKE Experience.

They usually prefer the karaoke singers that don't really care about their singing ability or the lack there of. The serious singers eventually avoid these types of shows; which usually makes the KJ/DJ very happy because he doesn't really want to be a KJ anyway. They use karaoke to get a gig and then it's the old bait and switch. The singers are considered an interuption of their incredible mixing skills.

No Bruce,, most of them are either trying to keep the energy level up or they have to try and please the masses instead of the 10 or so people who happen to be singing. Let's see here,,, place has 100 people, 10 or so of which are singing. Lets say each of those 10 actually brought someone with them to support them and their singing. That might leave 70-80 people there who aren't there for the karaoke, but instead are there to "party". So,, if the KJ only plays karaoke ALL night, that WILL drive several of the "party crowd" out the door, (unless those 10 singers are awesome and amazing, which isn't likely the case). I say, try and please as many as you can in that scenario. True there are shows out there that only karaoke is wanted, but there are LOTS of shows that have to cater to different types of crowds and play a smattering of "this" and a smattering of "that" just to keep the people there all night. Some areas do not have the possibility to be so specific in the type of clientele they cater to.

There is no wrong way, only the way it works best for that venue.

Could be the owner wants to change his clientele, I've seen this several times. Personally, I don't mind playing a few dance tunes if there aren't many singers....playing music is easy compared to to running karaoke, especially if it pays the same. Then again, depending upon the response....I can, and will sing for 4 to six hours.......but you are right, Rosario.....you have to enjoy what you are doing, and the customers become like friends and family to you.....money is secondary to me also. I've also seen karaoke separated from dart, television, and pool areas....if a place has the room, this seems to work well. Maybe when the weather breaks, the wife and I can come visit one of your shows......pm me a possible schedule, at your leisure.......jr

I completely agree with BruceFan4Life.

I've seen many many different karaoke shows(advertised as karaoke) and in every case where the KJ plays DJ music in a full house, my impression was that he (always male) felt shame over being a lowly KJ when he just wanted to show off his amazing mixing skills and his truly superior taste in music in general. The singers always take a back seat in those shows.

"Reading the crowd" is often their excuse for disrespectfully playing DJ music during karaoke. However, if they were any good at "reading the crowd", they would realize the crowd was there for the karaoke show as advertised. Why not "read the crowd" by reading the slips for the songs they want to hear and SING?

On the other hand the truly proffesional karaoke hosts don't need a "DJ dance music crutch" to get through a KARAOKE show. Those are the hosts that realize the karaoke and the good times that go with it are why the majority of the crowd is there even if they are not all singers.

The shows I frequent have people of all ages (mostly young) dancing during most songs, and the singers take pride in getting dancers up during their songs. The hosts directing the party will often announce the dance floor record for the night which encourages even more dancers as well as encouraging the singers to sing more dancable songs. I beleive it takes more skill to orchestrate a great party as a KJ than as a DJ which is why those who can't KJ will always make excuses for why the people want them to DJ instead.

If the host of the karaoke party starts playing DJ music or singing himself when there are people waiting in line to sing, he's just sending a message to the crowd that they are not good enough singers, or they're not smart enough to know how to have a really good time.

I no longer attend or stick around at karaoke/DJ venues because the singers are always made to feel they are getting in the way of the real party.

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KNOW THYSELF

And "I" only party agree with you both. It still depends on the area. 2 of the 3 shows I do are in small towns (about 5000 people or less), and the bars I host at are basically the only venues around for miles. They attract ALL walks of life, including people who want to dance their fannies off. If the singers were to entertain everyone, they would drive the dancers out the door. So, I am asked frequently to play some dance mixes. So, I do. I am not there to impress myself, I am there to keep people in the building, and not let them just simply go home and not come back next week because the singers are singing a lot of Patsy Cline and George Strait.

If we ONLY set our minds to one type of clientele, be prepared to turn the other people away. That's the way it is. We as hosts should be able to adapt to the clientele that DO attend and spend money. After all, it's not about "us", it should be about what the customers want.

I am not saying that there aren't venues out there that cater to a "karaoke only" clientele, because there are plenty of those as well. But maybe the place that Rosario is trying to build is one of those who just simply doesn't want karaoke. It does happen.

Just saying there is NO wrong way, only what works for you!

I conceed that things can be a little different in a small town area with only one venue, but it should be advertised as such (of course in a small town everyone knows what they are in for).

In Rosario's case I would recommend taking the gig as long as the owner agrees to support it and make an effort to bring in the people for it. Because there will always be regulars that never want anything to change, but perhaps the owner needs the change because those regulars are not enough to keep him in business.

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KNOW THYSELF

Like I said, lighten up.

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KingBing Entertainment C'mon Up! I have a song for you!!! [font=MS Sans Serif][/font]

Mrscott your showmanship in Utah is a little different from most.
You do what works for you and you do it well I'm sure.
In more liquor populated areas I have to agree with Bruce.
Had to happen I suppose.
Earthlings follow up was a good one.

First of all, let me make this clear. For TWO YEARS NOW my karaoke show has been vote BEST in Dundalk Maryland in the local paper.

I run a FUN show. I have no preconceived notion of what this bar is going to do or be like. Now... at this point, I can tell you, once i'm in there, and feel out the crowd I pretty much know what I need to do to "win" them over.

On the other hand, I have a pretty steady following... even none singers are HAPPY when the come in and see that I'm the KJ.

I've read the comments and just shake may head and smile. I break every "rule" BruceFan4Life... and I will continue to do so.. and get paid to do it.

- I WILL sing at the top of every rotation...usually a duet with one of the best singers (frequently a pretty woman, but the girls are appreciative if the male singer is hot) in the place and we will rock the place.

- I WILL play a dance song as appropriate to the venue: See we are NOT monkeys. Monkeys can't read crowds, and know what to. A cupid shuffle or cotten eyed joe getting the energy level up, and if you're smart, you'll do it RIGHT before your hottest singer. and if your REALLY on the ball you'll even tell them what you are doing and suggest a song that will keep the energy level high. There is no better feeling in the world for a performer than to ROCK THE HOUSE. A good KJ sets his performers up for success. Monkeys can't do that. I have many of my regulars that just go on "Koyote Roulette" and just let me pick a song from their history as appropriate for the moment... i.e. I'm "D.J.ing with live singers! Do your regulars trust you that much?

Here's a prime example: After 3 slow ballads i had one of my regulars come up and want to sing "I'll Be" by Edwin McCain. I can tell you the guy does an almost spot on rendition of it, it really great. I told him, No.. you're singing "Sweet Caroline" ... another of his songs that I know he does well. I DIDN'T want to do, and kind of sighed a bit. I just smiled and said "trust me". He sang the song, and the place went wild, doing the audience participation parts as appropriate, and his performace just got better as the crowd boosted his own energy level. When he was done, he was gettin hand shakes, thunderous applause and pats on the back. He just turned to me, smiled, "I'll never doubt you again Koyote". MONKEYS can't make moments like that.

- I WILL work in the little neighborhood bars: and make good money doing it. There is no doubt what business I'm in, I am the KARAOKE Koyote. And you bet I get the groans, and the "we don't want you here" looks and "this bar doesn't like karaoke"... but when my show is done they had a good time, want me back, and tell their friends. I've got the Knights of the Road, and the Chosen Sons singing in my shows and I work their club houses for private gigs. (which pay REALLY well)

You may think this business is about singing, and calling the next name, but its NOT. Its about PEOPLE. You learn to blend and mix with people, and have a positive attitude, you will win more often then not.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh, or if it seems i'm putting someone down, that's not my intention, I'm just speaking the way it is. If you are a MOBILE KJ playing at a different venue every night, you either learn to adapt and overcome or die. Period, the end.

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Good music, good friends, howling good times!

Agreed Koyote. Very much so.

I especially like the way you said that you encourage singers to rock the house. I do the same thing. I discourage depressing music after 11 (if real busy) and 12 (if busy). I know the crowd appreciates it, even though a singer or two here and there might resent it. But, I listen to the loudness of the applause - its USUALLY louder when the song is a fun and/or upbeat song - even if the singer doesn't sing it well.

Are you high?

If I have a full board of singers, I play little to no DJ music. I might slide a 'two-fer' of dance music in between rotations if there are requests for some.. and in those situations, MANY OF THE SINGERS get up to dance, too.

PROFESSIONAL ENTERTAINERS play to the CROWD THEY HAVE, otherwise they end up like you.. in your basement singing to your cats.

Hell, even topher admits to playing the occasional dance tune, and he's working an all karaoke club.. a club where people pay to sing, no less!

You strike me as one of these karaoke tools who shows up and puts in 27 slips and gets your panties in a bunch when the rotation of 3 or 4 singers is interrupted by OTHER PAYING CUSTOMERS who might want to hear a dance tune.. or some other DJ tune.

"NOT FAIR! The sign says KARAOKE, not KARAOKE and DJ!!"

Give me a break.

I play to the CROWD I HAVE. If I don't have many singers, i'm not going to just sit there with my thumb in my (@$%&#!) in dead silence waiting for someone to turn in a slip.. or subject the other patrons to some jerkoff (or myself) singing all night.

Which is exactly the situation the OP found themselves in. At a club with not many singers, so they filled the dead air with their own version of the Donnie & Marie show.. sans the pageantry.

If a 7 to 14 minute break to play other patrons song requests is going to bother you that badly on a night when there are only 5 or 6 singers, well then you should see about getting your meds upped.

Whilst I see the point in mixing it up and playing to the audience and their needs and "entertaining them" there is also a strong market for those who "just" do karaoke.

Consistency gives a strong brand and in turn a large turn out. There are several excellent entertainers/hosts in my local area like "thecheese" and "karaoke koyote" who adapt their show depending on the crowd and it makes for a great night... however, the singers don't go to their show (because they want a fast, fair rotation and to sing songs of their choice): since the singers don't go neither do their friends. In my area the go with the flow method doesn't work as well as consitency, unless you are in a venue with passing trade you will be playing to an empty bar.

PS: I work in a bar very similar to the one described in the OP, most of the regulars are happy to just let the karaoke continue in the background. My regular crowd don't feel comfortable in there so some nights I end up singing 30 odd songs in a four hour show, or alternating between me and one other singer. I get very little reaction out of the locals, they just carry on with their conversation... which can be disheartening for anyone who does attempt to sing. However, on the good nights when everyone turns up (birthdays, football etc) the place is completely different and the rotation can hit 20 singers... (3-12 is the average in my local area for all shows), it will go from quiet conversation to dancing on the tables.

The locals are lovely, but karaoke isn't for all of them, so on some nights we tend to co-exist in the same venue. I haven't changed my show at all... there would be no point. Recently when one customer complained that "everyone was boring and I needed to play something to wake them up"... I brought them up to the stage and told them to spot anyone who tapped their toes on the filler music, I played everything for the next 1/2 hour from Whitesnake, Neil Diamond, Twain to Rednex... the only feet that moved were the ones going to the bar. In this bar if they want to dance they will dance (and they will...even if it means dancing to the tune in their heads)... All commonsense, techniques, tips and tricks go out of the window the moment you walk in this venue.

Strangely (considering the quiet night reactions) this bar, is one of my favourites, the people there a wonderful and I love the quick chats I have with them on my "fresh air" breaks, the venue is full of characters, who work hard, play hard and look out for one another. It's not a pub, it's a community and I find myself luckly to be invited into it for four hours every week.

Most importantly folks It's handy to remember in certain bars that no matter what you do in a venue you are only ever going to be as good as your audience

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'A genius is one who can do anything except make a living'. Joey Adams.

First of all, my show does have consistency. Its consistently FUN! "Howling good times" is my brand, and I deliver.

Second of all, the singers DO come to my show. THE BEST singers.... Baltimore Idol winners, the leads singers to the most popular local bands, and so forth... as well as my large list of regulars. On my established gigs I frequently walk in and have my singers already there, ready to sing.

Why? Because I also have the BEST equipment and know how to make the performer sound their best.

However, this thread was about starting a NEW gig. One does not magically get a singer rotation of 10 plus in most cases their first night, especially in a situation described by the OP, unless they are very lucky.

Apparently, some are under the impression that you can't do both.... That you can't satisfy the "singers" as well as the rest of the paying customers. Singers DO bring their friends, because they know their friends that don't sing will have a good time as well.

My singers do get angry at me a little bit... because they tell me I've SPOILED them against other shows. Why?

Because:

- When I see a regular walk in, I put them in the rotation.
- If they have a regular first song I put that in for them or some just go on "Koyote Roulette"
- No Song slips. Who needs them? this is "100%, 21st Century GREEN karaoke, no son slips required. You tell me the name of the song, I'll get you up to sing it!"
- I am on the board with EVERY performance, making sure the performer sounds their best.
- When I see people looking through the books, I go to THEM... and ask them if I can help... or even make suggestions.
- I'm happy to be there, and have a good time myself! I figure if I'm not having a good time, then probably no one else is either.

As I said, you adapt the show to fit your situation, and the second part of that is you then ADAPT your situation!

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Good music, good friends, howling good times!

koyote, I am sure you are a fantastic host.
Bruce was not having a go at anyone here.
He wrote his real life observations.
I also have witnessed that sort of behaviour.
It is not directed at any one here.
I have seen some lousy KJ's.
They happened to fit the description posted by Bruce.

Sorry I should have used a different word, other than "consistency" I meant it in the sense of not deviating from the same routine every night, what ever the venue.

In other words by not adapting to the situation, (and playng a DJ set, or singing a song to get the crowd moving etc) you can bring about a strong brand, which can create a stong following. My show is "fast, fair and fun"( as in I call singers up quickly, Fairly and we have as much fun as we can), my singers are a mixed bag of talent and they control the show not me. (I'll give my advice but only if they ask) and there is a market for this mentality.

My show naturally peaks and troughs: last nights show had tears, laughter, toilet breaks, amazing singers, quiet singers, off key singers, fast songs, slow songs, love songs and dance tunes. I don't run a high energy show, usually it happens naturally and the slow song after five fast tunes gives everyone a chance to chill out of pop to the bar.

I certainly wasn't implying that a show wouldn't work if you activally geared your show to entertain both the singers and the audience (rather than my method of let them sing the rest will follow ), in my area however I am yet to see it work well.

The quote "you are only ever going to be as good as your audience" wasn't put their to indicate that someone without an audience is bad. I used it because you can have a packed pub, the perfect show and attitude and still have a bad gig. There is no right of wrong method for a karaoke show, but the one thing that is always true if the audience are ready to party and have fun (providing you know where the on-off switch on your PA is) the night will be great.

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'A genius is one who can do anything except make a living'. Joey Adams.

I'd like to make this one last post on this thread, (seems it got misinterpreted as to what the question was). It wasn't about my show, but would you continue to take the job or not. So, oh well. Since some statements about my show have been made, I'd like to clear a few things up. First, this is NOT a club, which it is constantly being referred to as. It is a CORNER BAR. Second, it was assumed (by the Cheese) that it was 20 to 30 year olds, it's actually 40 to 70 year olds. It gets a spill over (from time to time) of young women, from a dance club down the street. Maybe 2 or three women, making the rounds. These are the only young people in the place. They are there to get some free drinks, and dance to the jukebox (for everyones enjoyment). The seating capacity is about 30, 0r 40 MAX. Now, to the subject of me and my girlfriend singing all 4 hours. We haven't actually, but close to it. I've ALWAYS done the job that I was paid for. If (we), girlfriend included, were hired to paint your house, and our crew didn't show up, we wouldn't cut your grass instead. It may make your house look better, because the landscaping is great, BUT, that's not the job we were hired for. This particular owner had heard of us, and wanted us to play his bar. He knew, and LIKED what he saw. However, his bar is just NOT the place for it. That's why we decided not to play it anymore. So, as far as the (Donny and Marie) show as referred to by the Cheese, that's what the man paid for. We could EASILY have sat there with a playlist on Compuhost, and waited for someone to request to sing, but I felt we would be STEALING the man's money. He paid (good money) for us to give him the show he had seen, but he just didn't have anyone willing to participate. So as YOU stated, we weren't going to just sit there with our fingers in our (@#$#@). We gave him a karaoke show, THAT'S what he paid for. We tried to get our regulars from our other venue (a hotel lounge) to come there, and was successful for (one) show. They were reluctant to begin with, because of the bars reputation, but we convinced them. What happened??? Sure as (@#$%$) there was a fight in the bar that night. Would my regulars come again??? NOT A CHANCE. So that's where the dilemma comes in to play. Here's a place where the clientele DOESN'T want entertainment (except for drunk girls dancing), and the OWNER would like to have REAL entertainment. No matter what this guy tries to get in there, karaoke, bands, whatever, it doesn't work. He even had THREE different bands that now refuse to come back. So.... SOMETIMES, no matter how good your show is, or how inovative you are, there are SOME places that DON'T WANT YOU.

Rosario

Last word? You are ever optimistic.

But I just wanted to comment on Marble's observation that the audience makes the show. There have been times that I started to feel a bit proud of building something up but then looked around and realized that so and so had contributed humor and this one had contributed asking all of the ladies to dance and basically it was the audience members who had helped to give our show the fun rep. We may have encouraged it or facilitated it but we would be nothing without them.

Also, we were in a position when first starting a show where they had decided to start it an hour before anyone really came out. We decided we didn't want to inflict ourselves continuously on people so started playing music while we waited for singers to arrive. The manager told us that she wanted us to be putting on a "show" and even if it was just us, she wanted people to see that we had the newer songs, funyy wigs, etc. So we did Donny and Marie and people even requested repeats of some of what we did in later weeks. I think it just depends on the place so I wouldn't want to entirely discount Serenity's point of view.

Just had to be a woman didn't it.