Karaoke Forums

Yeah, i'd say $200 gigs are not what most guys (or gals) are getting for your typical weekly bar gig. I'd say, on average, you can expect to get between $125 and $175 a night.

So if you figure your average gig is $150 a night, you spend $10 in fuel, and drink $20 worth of beer, you're still at $120 a night for the night.

I play for 4 hours. From the time I pull my car up to the venue, to the time music is playing and i'm ready to call up singers, 30 minutes.

Tear down is the same.. maybe a bit longer if i've had a few beers.. so an hour for setup/teardown.. for a total of 5 hours a night.

You can't count road time.. I don't know anybody with a 'real' job that gets paid to drive to and from work. So let's say you've got some overly complex rig, or are just slow, and it takes you an hour to set up and another hour to tear down, at $120 clear a night, divided by 6 hours, is still $20 an hour.

I probably spend between $150 and $200 a month on new music for the catalog, replacing the occasional dead bulb for the lights, buying batteries, odds and ends.

So you CAN recoup a $10k investment.. it would take roughly 500 hours.. or just over 83 gigs.

But with that said, one could put together a pretty balls out system for $2,000 that would be more than capable for playing most clubs.

The dude talking about buying two subs, blah blah.. get real. Any place big enough to require TWO dual 12" subs is going to have their own in house system, and all you're going to need is to walk in with your mics and laptop.

Simple math shows that if you have two shows a week, paying $150 (could be $125 or $175 too if its a weekend gig, you can charge more), will give you 15K the first year you do it. So, $10k investment is easily recoverable.

I would say you can do it for $10k easy. Let me give you an alternative numerical breakdown which is something no one has done yet, and this is, get you completely ready to do your first show, and I think, I've remembered everything.

I lean to a NEW system rather than a used, because you have a warranty for your equipment. A really GOOD PA system for Karaoke might looks like this:

- 2 JBL EON 515XT 15" Powered PA Speaker $1400
- 1 Behringer EUROLIVE B210D
Active PA Speaker System (montor) $ 200
- Yamaha MG166C-USB 16 Channel USB
Mixer With Compression $ 400
- 2 BBE 882i Sonic Maximizer $ 500
- 2 SM58 Shure microphones $ 720
- mixer case and rack $ 400
- Various cables $ 200
- Laptop Computer $ 800
- Hosting Software $ 180
- Songbook Software $ 150
- 6 Songbooks $ 120
- Rack Light $ 79
- 2 power conditionsers $200
- 19" Flat Screen monitor $179
- Speaker Stands $80
- Flat Screen monitor Stand $60
- 2 external hardrives $200
- 2 "milk crates" to carry songbooks
and wires $12

Total Cost: $5952

Let me talk about my choices here, and why. You could save about $150 on a cheaper mixer, as you really don't need 16 channels for karaoke, BUT this mixer has some great features.. on board effect and a direct USB hookup for your laptap, negating the need for an interface. Furthermore, having those additional channels are nice if you blow one out, or you could even use the system for other things. Running a play or show, mixing for a band, the idea is to have a WORKING system that is flexible and will make you money. You will hear "Mackie, mackie, makie..." for the price of a Mackie board with NO EFFECTS Yamaha does it quite well, and its VERY dependable. Why speand $600 for TWO pieces when you can do get what you need in one piece for less without giving up quality?

I have done gigs for schools, bands, funerals, etc. NOT karaoke, just PA work for various occasions. The bottom line is, I can say YES to most jobs.

I went with the less expensive Berhinger speaker for a monitor. You definitely need a monitor speaker, as the shape of bars vary and you end up with the funky situations. you need it for yourself and your singers, and have found this model quite efficient for that purpose.

The JBLs have 625 watts each. thats 1250 watts total. More than enough for most applications. You need that power to overcome crowd noise, even in a small bar if you have a lot of people. You DON'T NEED SUBS! Most people THINK I have them with these speakers and while they might be nice, it is something you can get later, if you really want to.

The Sonic Maximizers are only one way to go, others might suggest a DBX solution, but the price is about the same. One if for the mains, the other is for your monitor (one channel goes unused). There are various ways to equalize your sound, but the BBE system is very good, sounds great and is easy to use. Other hosts may suggest a different way.

MUSIC

Here is where going used pays off. Look on ebay, and craig's list, but beware of scams. Finding a KJ leaving the business is a great way to get a library "ready to go"

Buying new can be very expensive, but the Sound Choice foundation and all the bricks are a MUST have, as you will use them EVERY night you work. Purchased new, that's about $1300.

Pick up the last several years of Chartbusters pop and country hits for another $360and I'd say you have a pretty strong starting library.

So music outlay here is only $1600 for 2100 songs, 600 of which are new. That leaves you $3000 to FILL with songs as you go. Your singer's requests, and new music as it comes out.

And certainly, during this time you will come across deals on karaoke discs used. With careful purchasing you should be able to get to the 7500 song range easy, and from there its just a matter of upkeep and continually looking for deals.

Don't try and get the music all at once, and "customize" your library for where you are playing. Then as time goes by, fill the holes in your library.

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Good music, good friends, howling good times!

Sorry Lon, you are almost completely wrong on this. Doesn't mater what crap you drag into a bar, the only thing 99% of bar owners/managers look at is how much they are getting charged.

Prime example in my area, and area near by. My karaoke company is the best sounding in the area, but yet, the bars keep hiring the crappy karaoke because they will do 4 hrs for $75-$100. My fans complain about the one local bar in my town that doesn't hire us, because the crappy karaoke company is cheaper. My fans let the owners know they want us, but only have done one gig there in 1 year. Crappy karaoke has been there 6 times. Sorry I am not taking a 50% pay cut, they can keep crappy Karaoke.

@karaoke koyote

thanks for that list, but out of curiousity, why the powered speakers over passive with an amp?

That's easy... Convenience,

I'm assuming you're going to be mobile, and not leaving your equipment at the bar?

First of all, amp and speaker matching is a fine art. Lets say you decided to purchase a pair of Yamaha S115V 2-Way 15" Club Series V Speakers, which sound amazing and are quite popular. These are 500W program handling, 1,000W peak, and weigh 65lbs each.

You use a Yamaha P7000S Dual-Channel Power Amp to handle these properly, and that not counting your 3rd monitor speaker which will require a second amplifier. This AMP weighs around 35 pounds, an is in your rack with your signal processor, your power conditioners and whatever. so you're at another 60+ lbs for your rack, and 65bs for your speakers.

Active speakers offer the mobile KJ a lot of flexibility. You can daisy chain as many as you want giving you easy expandability, and you won't have to recalculate for OHMs, you have PERFECT amp and speaker matching and it lightens your carry weight considerably.

Then look at the cost. the AMP and speaker combo costs you $2200 whilst the JBLs cost you $1500.

The JBL's I pointed you to are 5 star rated speakers, they sound amazing, are light weight at 53 lbs each, and self powered. Why would you put yourself through the hassle and additional expense of passive speakers and an amp when there is a superior alternative?

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Good music, good friends, howling good times!

Double Post

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Good music, good friends, howling good times!

thanks I will definetely look into those, I got a sound guy coming by to let me check out some speakers as well, so I can see how they sound, and the guy is a fricken genius when it comes to acoustics. ill see if he can get ahold of a set of jbl's for me.

I have to disgress, we still get singers that actually want to come to our shows simply because of the sound quality & the fact that I will look/search for songs they want.
I would otheriwise agree, i've lost shows to those kj's you decribed but they've never lasted - in my experience.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

it's just karaoke right? no need to get the good stuff for drunk karaoke singers.
sorry, this has me irritated so i had to say something. i spent almost that much on my hardware alone because i think the only thing that separates a karaoke singer from a band singer is the band. i got the best i could afford to give the singers, good bad or otherwise the best shot at sounding great. if you can't cover any more than what you have, awesome. do the best you can, with what you have, but those saying that you are spending too much are perpetuating the "it's just karaoke" mentality that has given us a bad name over the years. not everyone sees the need for Allen & Heath, EAW, etc., nor is it mandatory, but to buy the cheapest crap for the sake of not investing in your business seems ridiculous. my opinion, for what it's worth, is get the best you can, and give it your all, if it does not work, you at least have quality equipment to sell and recoup some of your investment. in this business, half a$$ing it just makes you another dude doing karaoke.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

@paradigm

was that directed at me, cause if so you are hurting my feelings. If I wanted to go cheap I would just buy the equipment from a local bar in the area, I could probably get everything, cd's and all for about $800 bucks, and even get the gig there too. However, the player they have is junk, and the speakers suck. However, If I have an option of spending 10K on equipment, or 5K on equipment, with the only noticeble difference being the name on the box, I'm gonna go with the 5k, leaving me more capital to build up a library. I have worked in sales since I was 16, and realistically more expensive doesn't automatically mean better quality.
seriously man, it irritates you that someone doesn't want to spend more than they have to to get a business started?... I suppose Sam Walton was half-a$$ing it when walmart started, since it started with 1 store instead of just going out and opening up 4000 stores to start. Maybe I should go out and buy some property, build a bar, and wire the whole place for sound as a way to be a KJ. I mean a couple hundred thousand dollars sounds about right as a startup KJ cost, right?

I looked through this entire thread, and other than the one guy who said I should buy a 200 pre-loaded harddrive (which I'm pretty sure he meant sarcastically) everyone has been trying to give advice on what systems are good to get, for the cost you are paying. Thats not half-a$$ing, thats doing research and making a good purchasing decision.

sorry for coming across as harsh, but that was really offensive man
(edited to remove some off topic stuff)

OK You're all missing an important point here, what about what the KJ thinks of his equipment. If you go out and buy crap, yes maybe it won't matter as far as who you can bring in, but if it frustrates you as a host, then that's a problem. If you feel bad about the audio quality or if you have to constantly ride faders and EQ's to keep things in line then buying cheap crap wasn't a very good option. I choose to buy things I know will keep me happy for years. Reducing the bullsh!t factor is an important intangible in this business.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

Could not agree more.
I am my biggest critic and pleasing me is not cheap.

You know, I find the turn this whole topic took to be quite bizarre. On this very board, we complain about pirates who undercut us and do things on the cheap and steal copyrighted works to do it. We bash people who come in looking to spend $1000 on a PA and want something "good".

Now we have a poster who comes in with a responsible expectation of what his initial investment should be and we're going to seriously suggest that he's investing too much? I'm absolutely dumbfounded.

Perhaps if more KJ's were responsible enough to realize that starting a business is a risk, that starting a business does take serious start-up capital, that starting a business requires an understanding of costs, revenue opportunities and a plan to maximize the latter then maybe, just perhaps, y'all wouldn't have to take gigs for $150 or less for a 4 hour weekend show.

There's nothing wrong with minimizing costs, that's smart business, but being cheap is not and there is a difference. Honestly, as small businesses go, $10,000 is an extremely low initial investment. To suggest that the OP is taking too big a risk to start with is almost comical. I look back on my intial investment and just my music library alone took up a huge portion of my initial capital. I bought most of my equipment used for the reasons I discussed earlier (which of course is why I suggest it to others). I ended up spending over $12,000 just to get into the business despite cutting costs everywhere I saw that was acceptable to me. I was starting a business, I new there would be risks, I made sure I was financially ready for those risks before I jumped in, and above all else, I had a solid business plan for how I was going to make money doing this.

The result? My ENTIRE initial investment was paid back in the first year. I showed a profit in fact despite the equipment costs, taxes and such. So if others out there weren't financially prepared for a reasonable investment like that or weren't ready to take that risk, well I wish you all the best in your success but that's not a real good plan to have when starting a business.

Let me put this at you another way. If you're going to start a restaurant, you have a huge upfront investment to make in equipment. So are you going to go out and buy some cheap freezers that you can get from Best Buy that will do the job adequately or are you going to go get Kelvinator sub-zeros that will last for years and are designed for the true rigors of professional use. Your customers won't notice the difference and having the 5x as expensive Kelvinator isn't going to bring patrons in. You do it because in the end it will cost you less and will allow you to do your job with the greatest level of ease. It's no different when we discuss equipment purchases here.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

As with any business, you just have to ask yourself if the $10,000 start up costs are worth it. It would be worth it to me, but I work 2 nights a week at $175 a night.

If the OP is going to work 1 night a week for $100.00 a night, then 10K might be a silly initial investment.

If the OP is going to work 2 nights a week for $125 a night, then it is making good sence.

Anyway, I think everyone has the same spirit in thier posts:

This is a business, and you have to do a cost/benefit analysis!

Who knows, maybe the OP is a semi-retired millionaire looking for a fun pre-retirement job, and 10K is nothing, so again, it makes perfect sence. But then again, if he is BORROWING 10K without any gigs lined up, then it is a BADDDDD idea.

Just too many factors for everyone to be making "blanket" judgements, but only the OP knows what his cost/benefit analysis looks like.

If it were me, I would already have a gig or two lined up, maybe even with contract agreements for 6+ months, before I dropped 10K, that's for sure!

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C Mc
KJ, FL

Personally, I don't do this as you never know what people are going to sing. I have had twenty somethings covered in tatoo's ask for Sinatra or Chicago and sixty year old's sing War Pigs and AC/DC.



Statewide.

http://www.health.state.ny.us/preventio ... r_air_act/

I like where Rip went with this. When I submit and EA at my place of employment, they are looking for 2 year payback.

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KingBing Entertainment C'mon Up! I have a song for you!!! [font=MS Sans Serif][/font]

Thinking about this. What bar owner is going to give a host-to-be a 6 month contract without ever hearing the equipment or seeing the hosts' hosting skills?

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KingBing Entertainment C'mon Up! I have a song for you!!! [font=MS Sans Serif][/font]

fist, considering the $ you are planning to spend, I don't see where that was directed at you. But I've been wrong before!

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KingBing Entertainment C'mon Up! I have a song for you!!! [font=MS Sans Serif][/font]

Ditto. Had 2 such singers last night that marveled at my set up and sound. Plus,,,,,,, who says I will sell my stuff when I "retire". I will have the best home karaoke setup around. But that's just my situation.

fist, you have a good plan. Make it happen!

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KingBing Entertainment C'mon Up! I have a song for you!!! [font=MS Sans Serif][/font]

The $10,000 for equipment is a chimera. But music library, that's another story.

Personally, if I had to start over again I'd probably opt for the GEM as my base, and fill in other stuff with custom downloads and CB artist disks. If I didn't like the lease approach, then I would pick up Foundation I & II, then CB Essentials 3-10. That's about $1800, and gets you 4500 songs. After that, I would fill in with artist disks for country, Zoom/Sunfly/SBI downloads for recent and rock, and CB or SC customs. For $3000, I could get a pretty decent selection of songs to match the GEM.

With regard to equipment, I recommend one of two setups depending on your target market. If you are going for the dive bar, with $150.00 per night fees, I recommend the powered mixer approach to start. For $1500, you can get a Yamaha EMX512 and a pair of lightweight speakers like the Peavey PR15s, along with some good stands, a couple of wired mics, and maybe a cheap wireless. Will it be the best sounding setup? Heck no. But it will sound better than a lot of rigs, and it will be good for dive bars. And you can carry it, and you can set it up quickly. You don't need a van. And some small bars simply don't have enough space for a stage-sized rig.

It might make sense to start out with the above approach, to see if you are cut out for this business. I am not, and probably shouldn't have spent so much to find out. Even if you later upgrade, you will always like the idea of a simple three-item setup for some small gigs.

If you are going for the higher-revenue $200.00+ large-bar gigs, then you need better sound and more power than that. I would recommend going for a rolling one-rack setup and a van with ramp to carry it. (If you are big and strong, then maybe an SUV with a dolly -- maybe.) Get a rolling rack, a power amp, a mixer, and mount it all in the rolling rack so you have no setup time. It is worth the $1000.00 to cut that setup, as you will spend hours and hours on it otherwise. 100 gigs a year, an hour saved each time? You bet it makes a difference. Get the hydraulic speaker stands. The less strain you put on your body the better. $4000.00.

Computer? A minimum laptop is all you need these days. 3G, 500G disk. VGA for the monitor, with some video miscellany to support a bar TV. $600. Get a used one for a backup, $200.

Software? There are a number of choices. I like Compuhost, and think it offers the best out of the box. But you can make lots of things work. $250.

So I see investment, short of a vehicle as being $1500 or $4000 for sound equipment, $1000 for computer and software, $3000.00 for library. That's $5500 or $8000. Add 20% for contingency, and that's $6600 or $9600. For the bigger setup you will want a vehicle not only for ease of getting the equipment there, but to store it in so you don't have to unload your vehicle every night. I spent $2500 for a cargo van and ramp. You can also go for a trailer if you have a place to store it and make sure it isn't stolen -- that would cut the cost to $1500.00 (used with hitch installation).

For the smaller dive bar market, you invest $6600. For the bigger-revenue market, it costs $12,100. 44 easy-to-get dive bar gigs, 60 harder-to-get large bar gigs. Easily paid off in a year of an average of two gigs a week, with some profit to boot.

That's my take. Personally, I believe cutting setup time is the most important thing to invest for. That's what I discovered, and what I will shoot for if I ever start weekly gigging again. I think I would mount one of those mini-desktops in the rack instead of a laptop.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.