Karaoke Forums

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing
[i]
Astroturfing is a form of advocacy often in support of a political or corporate agenda designed to give the appearance of a "grassroots" movement. The goal of such campaigns is to disguise the efforts of a political and/or commercial entity as an independent public reaction to some political entity—a politician, political group, product, service or event.[/i]

Lately I've seen a lot of posts referencing things that nobody can ever seem to give a link to. Good examples would be "laws" or the recent "January 1st deadline that makes import karaoke contraband" For that matter, I've seen people just make stuff up. I've seen people completely "paraphrase" (It's a nice word for lying about what someone else said)

Now before I go into a more detailed analysis on this.. Some background on me.

As I said in another post, I've been to defcon for a little blackhat training (2, I think it was 7 and Social engineering techniques someone might use.

That's not the only place I get skills from for astroturf detection. My entire schooling was spent in honours English and writing classes, from 3rd grade all the way into college. Some people "read" writing. I can actually see the syntax in writing pretty well, almost as if nouns, verbs, possessive, perspective, prepositions and punctuation had colours on them to highlight them from the rest of the sentence. It's a pretty fun skill to have, and took me years to hone it to a razor sharp point.

And here's the point..

Some of you here resemble some of the KIAA folks purely in writing. Yup, said it. Some of you resemble the principle officers of the companies that make up the KIAA. I'm about 99.9% sure of it (hang on, need to adjust my tin foil hat... That's better) I'm not saying it is the KIAA principles, but the writing does bear some striking resemblance.

I'm going through old emails now, and comparing how you use words and punctuation. Even though English has a "correct" syntax to it, that doesn't mean folks don't go outside the syntax when developing their own writing styles. People use the same words, in the same places. They string together subject and point the same exact way no matter what name their using. This is a proven fact, just read some authors that use pen names (Richard Bachman a.k.a Steven King is a GREAT example)

Now I'm not going to name names, or point fingers. That's not the point of this post. Not to mention, it could be construed as libellous.

I want to see if anyone else has come to the same conclusion as me. Anyone not staying on topic, and degrading this topic into a flame thread will be promptly put on my ignore list. I have no use for your rhetoric.

EDIT: Should also throw in, I've done some astroturf detection for our local democratic committee on one of our local republican councilmen.

http://www.sanjoseoutsider.com/the-frog ... troturfing

_________________
Living my life as Robert Cortese, 162 E. Jackson St, San Jose CA.

It's like the difference between high and low budget toilet paper, it really doesn't matter in the end. -exweedfarmer

Which is smarter? Just sticking to making/selling karaoke, while people all over the world create software FOR FREE that helps you sell it, or trying to compete with them and keeping it a closed loop while you blow your money into an industry (software) that you(the karaoke manu) knows nothing about?
-me

I think you need to be careful about this. There are definitely people who agree with some of the agendas and have a good relationship with the companies so they get more info as to what is going on than some others do. But that doesn't mean they all work for them. It seems like accusing someone of being on the payroll or getting deals has become a commoen way to try to diminish their opinion.

I was pretty much run off another board because one of the sponsers decided I was a schill for Sound Choice and started getting on my case. I thought it was a joke at first but he was serious. My relationship with SC is that I have bought their discs, belonged to the SC club two years, bought one of their players, signed up for a Safe Harbor number and I have had maybe 3 emails to/from Kurt Slepp, one set of correspondence simply about when was a song coming out that a singer wanted. Most of their discs I didn't even buy direct but from distributors. The only special deal or treatment I ever had was from the discounts from belonging to the Sound Choice Club. Yet I was labelled a schill and nothing could be done but leave the board. And I didn't really even think I was that radical of a poster.

So I guess one can have one's suspicions but in posting you have to give the benefit of the doubt. Otherwise it turns into everyone who agrees with the manufacturers must be on the payroll while people who disagree get accused of being pirates and that arguing goes on infinitum with no more real info being exchanged.

I've noticed it, but I'm having trouble putting words to my observation.
Perhaps that's because my foil is aluminum.

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KNOW THYSELF

Well of course mfg reps are posting anonomously. Happens all the time all over the web. It's the nature of the beast. The worst case is those "customer" reviews on Amazon, NewEgg, etc. At least in a discussion forum like this, you can offer an opposing opinion.

My feelings are that you want the mfgs participating here so they will see and hopefully hear their customer concerns. If they want to participate under an assumed name, there's not much you can do about it. And maybe that's even best, as long as they don't recommend their brand whenever someone asks for opinions on brands. I'm sure they're all too honorable to do that anyway!

Had problems with the "Quote" button, so:

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From Toqer:


"Lately I've seen a lot of posts referencing things that nobody can ever seem to give a link to. Good examples would be "laws" or the recent "January 1st deadline that makes import karaoke contraband" For that matter, I've seen people just make stuff up. "
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Sorry you missed it, but someone - I think Chip- posted a link back in March. BTW, what you "quoted" about a Jan 1st deadline wasn't quite correct, and if I recall, not in the document. The deadline for IMPORT into the US was July 1st, 2010.

Jan 1st 2011 was when MCPRS stopped licensing for EXPORT from the UK.

Chip ( Again, I THINK it was Chip?) can probably give you the link if you PM him.

I don't neccesarily disagree with your basic premise, just pointing out that UK tracks were a bad example.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Toqer,
as far as "Astroturfing" goes I can easily see where some might accuse me of being a shill...What I am is involved in a small but growing "grass roots" fight against karaoke piracy. I proudly display my support for SC CB and Stellar in my every post as m signature line. I have met Kurt, Debi and Norbert and a few friends at the "cheerleaders meeting" I have emailed Kurt and Debi a handful of times as well. I do not work for SC/CB/Stellar. I do stand firm in my decision to support them in the fight against pirates....to help save the industry.The manus used to post on these boards under their names until they were run off, I wish they would return but understand fully why they choose not to roll in the mud.
As anyone here knows in situations where I am wrong I am the first to admit my mistake and what ever fall out occurs.
Would you consider my actions Astroturfing ? I am not baiting and you may answer that question via pm since the question is one that a personal opinion if you wish.

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"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

Chip will be on this like white on rice if he did. Let's see if he answers. You're right, probably 1 bad example, but overall I get the feeling this board is being astroturfed.

_________________
Living my life as Robert Cortese, 162 E. Jackson St, San Jose CA.

It's like the difference between high and low budget toilet paper, it really doesn't matter in the end. -exweedfarmer

Which is smarter? Just sticking to making/selling karaoke, while people all over the world create software FOR FREE that helps you sell it, or trying to compete with them and keeping it a closed loop while you blow your money into an industry (software) that you(the karaoke manu) knows nothing about?
-me

Hey athena,

Heh, ya you're right, folks would view you as a schill, but I don't. Out of all the cheerleaders, you carry yourself well without ever degrading your posts into a back and forth of "he said she said". You do tend to repeat what the KIAA folks say a lot (and I honestly feel, especially in regards to karaoke downloads, and especially since SC is offering them now on select-a-track, they're just blowing a smokescreen)

But no, I value your input at times. I don't see you as an astroturfer if that means anything to you.

(edit)Athena, can I get your input over here?
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21703

It wasn't a link, but rather an excerpt from a private email I received directly from MCPS directly regarding the licensing issues....
Reproduced here for your convenience:

Still not the same as "all import karaoke is illegal" though.

Which goes back to my original point.

It would be nice if this KIDB site could provide the status of licenses (expired/changed/etc), year it was licensed, etc.

Talked to a friend in the movie industry about rolling credits. He says there's no law, it's just a Union agreement between the studios and actors, grips, lighting techs etc.

well i too have bought and been a member of sc for a few years in the past. i dont care for what piracy has done to karaoke at all. i have all my originals that i paid for thru dist. and a few direct from sc. or i have bought out those that decided to sell their originals on cl or ebay.... end result is the only way i think it has a chance to stop is when the patrons and the bars etc decide they wont support the piracy by hiring them.

a dream but one has to do sooooo

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:angel:

Angel??? Takes me back to a bridge I never stood under.
Toqer, Black hat...
Bad man.
Paint it white.
For your detective work I will send you a deerstalker and leave you this.

Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng
is
taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae.
The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm.
Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.
The biran fguiers it out aynawy.

Will check it for spelling mistakes later.

This as with many conversations are way too deep and confusing...

I had a friend astro-turf their backyard - very low maintenance...

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It's my Opinion and your welcome to it!
If you don't like it, I'll just cry