Karaoke Forums

I would like to add that if said SC letters were sent to venues in my area, and it cost me work because of mis-interpretation in regard to my being disc-based, and not a part of SC's sham of a list, that I would consider myself a Damaged Party, and would act accordingly.

SC wouldn't be sending the letters. The government agency would.

What would be the criteria for knowing?
Now one possible response to this would be that a KJ must have one of those “Certificates of Authenticity” issued by Sound Choice or ChartBuster (which is really based on a computer operated KJ that is operating on a 1:1 ratio).

Here are my questions and concerns regarding this:

What would be the criteria for knowing?
Now one possible response to this would be that a KJ must have one of those “Certificates of Authenticity” issued by Sound Choice or ChartBuster (which is really based on a computer operated KJ that is operating on a 1:1 ratio).

"exactly"

What about the other manufacturers who are still in business? Where are the “Certificates of Authenticity” from them?

Those may be coming sooner than anyone thinks

How many “Certificates of Authenticity” is a KJ supposed to have/hold?

Let's say that for the purpose of satisfying venue owner/manager just one for a computer based system. It will at least show them that the KJ made the effort to be legit.

And what about all those manufacturers (REGARDLESS of whether or not they produced Karaoke tracks legally) that are no longer in business (All Hits, Ameri-Sing, Back Stage, Dangerous, DK, Doctor Music, JVC, Karaoke Classics, Lost Classics, Monster Hits, Music Maestro, Nikodo, NuTech, Performance Tracks, Pioneer, Sound Images, Standing Ovation, etc…). Are we (the KJs) supposed to just get rid of all these songs from these libraries (which we purchased from legitimate storefronts (actual Brick and Mortar Stores or their respective Internet Sites such as Karaoke Warehouse, Karaoke.Com, ACE Karaoke, TSC Karaoke, etc…) in good faith)?

No! with a full audit of all of your disc (and any of the manus will do this) you receive a KIAA certificate. (I wish I had taken all of my disc with me when I went to the audit instead of just SC CB and PHM.

And what about those of us that are still Disc Based? The above mentioned is all based on the KJ being Computer Based? For a Disc Based KJ, there is no 1:1… There is ONLY 1.

If you read the material from SC and CB you will note that it only pertains to media shifted systems.

One thing that’s been stated/argued in past topic threads (regarding Disc Based KJs), is that those KJs have nothing to worry about, because they have done nothing wrong. The problem I see (that has been stated in other topic threads), is that Sound Choice and ChartBuster have been blitzing as many Venues as they can with letters stating that unless they hire a KJ who is Legal, they will be subject to legal proceedings against them as well. Then, they have further stated that you can check their websites (Sound Choice and CharBuster) for a list of those KJs who are Legal (which consists of those KJs who have gone through one of those Audit processes)… And that’s just those who are Computer based. Well, I am Disc Based.

And again being disc based there is no dispute that you are 100% legal, so you don't have a problem. You are correct the "legal" database is for listing those KJ who are "computer based" to identify those "computer based" KJs who are in fact legit.

Now, before one of you jumps in with, “A Disc Based KJ can get a ‘Certificate of Authenticity’ too. Just PAY for an Audit.”... go back to my questions above…. How many Audits do I need to get done, and from whom? I only do 12 shows a year at $150 for 3 hours. Let’s see…. $199 to ChartBuster… $125 to Sound Choice…. That’s already 2 of my 12 shows and a fraction of a 3rd show (not to mention my added expenses of gas and costs for wear and tear on my Vehicle)…. What about all the other brands that SC and CB don’t care about? How much more am I expected to spend for those “C.O.A.’s”???

Wall Of Sound, I will restate my question (tailored to what you just stated):
What would be the Government Agency's criteria for stating that the Venue has Karaoke operating there at a Legal or Illegal level? Are they going to base it on SC or CB's say-so (because they are issuing these pieces of paper entitled "Certificate of Authenticity")??? OR, is the Government going to REDEFINE or CLARIFY the LETTER OF THE LAW as versus the SPIRIT OF THE LAW (which several of the people in this forum have kept talking/arguing about for years in this Forum).

W.O.S., before you answer this question, please be so kind as to address my other questions. By answering just one question (in and of itself), you are taking the rest of what I posted out of context.

Could that mean a pirate who downloaded his library five years ago and has been openly using it for more than three years is "in the clear" from lawsuits?

The way I view it, that is not necessarily true. The way SC and CB have gone about this (to my understanding), their letters to the Venues have been IMPLYING if the KJ does not have a "COA," then he/she is not operating legally... and then they add on that one must go and check THEIR WEBSITE for a list of those who are operating legally. Well, I have no intention to format shift, and therefore, my name will not appear on their ONLINE list. If a Venue decides to check this list (when considering to hire me), they might be inclined to pass on my services (due to my name NOT being on their list).

The way I view it, that is not necessarily true. The way SC and CB have gone about this (to my understanding), their letters to the Venues have been IMPLYING if the KJ does not have a "COA," then he/she is not operating legally... and go and check OUR WEBSITE for a list of those who are operating legally. Well, I have no intention to format shift, and therefore, my name will not appear on their ONLINE list. If a Venue decides to check this list (when considering to hire me), they might be inclined to pass on my services (due to my name NOT being on their list).

You probably could pay them the $125 for advertising.

You would probably have to prove that you are not computer based.

Why don't you give Sound Choice or Chartbuster a call on Monday morning & ask how you can get listed? They are really nice people & I'm sure they would work something out with you.

The way I view it, that is not necessarily true. The way SC and CB have gone about this (to my understanding), their letters to the Venues have been IMPLYING if the KJ does not have a "COA," then he/she is not operating legally... and then they add on that one must go and check THEIR WEBSITE for a list of those who are operating legally. Well, I have no intention to format shift, and therefore, my name will not appear on their ONLINE list. If a Venue decides to check this list (when considering to hire me), they might be inclined to pass on my services (due to my name NOT being on their list).

I haven't seen anything posted from Rumbolt on this subject.

For Cue and Joe: I am an all-disc KJ. One of my venues also employs a KJ who uses a PC. He contacted Sound Choice and got certified. Later, my venue got the letter saying the bar should employ only certified KJ's. My bar owner was concerned that this affected me (because I was not certified).
In addition, other certified KJ's were advertising themselves as the only "legal" shows in town.
So, I contacted Sound Choice, got a certification as an Original Disc User (which includes permission to media-shift if I ever choose to do so). I'm listed on the Sound Choice site as certified.

Here is the ironic part, as it applies to this thread: We two KJ's are not allowed to work at that bar for a while. A city "task force" visited one night looking for violations, found the bar lacks a certain number of paved parking places, so the live music permit was suspended until the situation is corrected.
So I do believe that a local government body can certainly check into bars about any type of perceived illegal activities. It's up to the bar owner to prove the stuff is not illegal. I can easily see this applying to karaoke piracy.

is the Government going to REDEFINE or CLARIFY the LETTER OF THE LAW as versus the SPIRIT OF THE LAW (which several of the people in this forum have kept talking/arguing about for years in this Forum).
.

I have heard so much talk about the law and the "spirit of the law" that I did a little research into the differences and the meanings of the two.

Let's say that the letter of the law states that; "you shall not copy this CDG for commercial use without permission."

Now if you follow the letter of the law, you simply won't make a copy of the disc for commercial use without permission, because the law says if you are caught you will be punished. However, if you follow the "spirit of the law", you don't even think about making a copy without permission because you know it is morally wrong to do so.

I have heard so much talk about the law and the "spirit of the law" that I did a little research into the differences and the meanings of the two.

Let's say that the letter of the law states that; "you shall not copy this CDG for commercial use without permission."

Now if you follow the letter of the law, you simply won't make a copy of the disc for commercial use without permission, because the law says if you are caught you will be punished. However, if you follow the "spirit of the law", you don't even think about making a copy without permission because you know it is morally wrong to do so.

The origin of the term "spirit of the law" actually has it's roots in the bible.

Clearly, you don't understand the difference and your research is sorely lacking. Maybe try digging a little deeper next time.
Let's use a simple, made up example to illustrate the difference between the two.
Suppose the law says that absolutely no motorized vehicle shall driven, or ridden on the sidewalk.
The letter of the law would have a person in an electric wheelchair arrested and thrown in jail for riding on the sidewalk.
The spirit of the law, however, would certainly make an exception for someone in such a circumstance.
Hope this helps to clear things up for you.

Clearly, you don't understand the difference and your research is sorely lacking. Maybe try digging a little deeper next time.
Let's use a simple, made up example to illustrate the difference between the two.
Suppose the law says that absolutely no motorized vehicle shall driven, or ridden on the sidewalk.
The letter of the law would have a person in an electric wheelchair arrested and thrown in jail for riding on the sidewalk.
The spirit of the law, however, would certainly make an exception for someone in such a circumstance.
Hope this helps to clear things up for you.